ex forbidding us going on holiday

[MamaMassageMe]

Will keep this as brief as possible.

History: 5yrs together, split since mid June this year, he moved all the way next door to his parents :( , 1 ds almost 15 months, due 2nd DC 5/11. Have health visitors, childrens centres, home start, DA support worker-emotional more than physical, and attending freedom programme. Break up both of our responisibility,but ex blames me entirely (all apart of his emotional abuse and complete ego maniac/ victim of everything) Tried to get things back together for many months, addressing my "issues" etc. He used this to control, manipulate and punish me.

EX behaviour: He has been irregular with contact- it is weekly but doesn't commit and times vary from 5 mins, to 6 hours. Pleaded with him to be consistent with DS as he has been showing emotional damage from split and ex walking in and out of our lives (ex has done this since he was born) He also has used this contact time to verbally attack me, belittle me, leave me in ruins (often in front of DS) and to confuse me about where I stood with him. Sometimes would come to door/ call and not even ask about DS for days on end. refused to acknowledge DS emotional well being and stress, hasn't complied with my repeated requests for him to be consistent. ( And I#m ashamed to say I keep letting him back in our lives. This wil stop now) He has once again turned down perm work 5 weeks before baby was due (he quit his job when 4 weeks off of DS' due date) not financially contributed a penny or helped in any way to get ready for new baby (despite my repeat requests/begging as I've been struggling) left me last Sun with early labour smptoms in pain etc (he is next door doing sweet fa) with DS who was upset and confused by my condition and pain. Had a bit of a breakdown. He is selfish, unsupportive, cruel, emotionally abusive, financially irresponsible, enjoys watching me suffer, and has no concept of the emotioonal vulnerability-intelligence-capabilitys of children and refuses to acknowledge this. early labour pains just one of many instances of him being a complete douche.

Issue: My Mum lives abroad. Can only stay in UK for 4 weeks after baby arrives due to her business. Very hard times with all that stuff in her life. (ex and his family won't help and are totally in denial about how to be human beings..ie: his mother has watched DS for a grand total of 2 hours his entire life, never done a feed, nappy change etc-she lives next door|!!! They never offer to help out, and are convinced they are superior beings to the rest of the planet-trust me they are not!) I want to follow my Mum back to her home country (my birth place) for a max of 4 weeks-IS will be affected if I stay longer etc. I have my own business which I intend to launch again next year once baby has settled in again, and have no intention of "kidnapping kids" -ex has already filed false allegations to police that I fled country with DS. They laughed and so did SS. He is forbidding me leaving. The only reason I want to go is for emotional and practical support for the kids and I. I have no family here, and have been making friends (very good ones :) ) but feel quite isolated-especially with ex lving next door and he seems to have a lot of control and power over me which I am struggling to break.

He is forbidding I go, ignored request letter I sent in July regarding trip (lawyer says him not answering amounts to "no objection") he has refused on 6 occasions to discuss with me, hangs up and just says no. He has PR for DS..not letting him near BC of DC2. Been to police to let them know my plans. They supported my reasonings etc and said I was being absolutely reasonable. Also made a report with DA issues as I am worried about how he and his family will be when DC2 arrives. frankly quite scared of them. have complete and utter support from HV, CC, DA sw, MW etc. All have offered to write supportive letters when I hand in return tickets etc to police for their files to prove I am not a flight risk/kidnapper etc.

Question: Can he stop me from going on holiday. So close to due date will I realistically be expected to go to court before we fly? Will he make it to court before we go or will I be back by that time? For arguments sake lets say DC2 is on time, 4 weeks later...so I'll be back between xmas and NY.Any one else been in a similar position?

This is in no way a move by me to obstruct bonding, access, xmas-dates just fall like that, didn't plan for him to be this way to me. It literally is only because I need some help, I've done preg on my own, DS will need extra attention time which ex will not give us/him. I think I've done my research and he cannot stop us having a holiday.He says he's done research as well and I can't go....all solicitors etc I've spoken to said it would be better if I had court permission but due to timings I didn't have time to get this but it shouldn't be a problem as long as he doesn't get a port stop. Whats that? and how do you get one?

Advice greatly appreciated

How will you even get a passport so quick? Which country is it?

I'm sure somebody will be along with the legal angle but if he isn't lodging a formal objection then he doesn't have any ground to stand on does he? If he thinks your mum is coming for four weeks and then you are going I would change that to three weeks and two days and NOT tell him exactly when you're leaving till you've gone. If you are logging your return tickets with the police I think they're unlikely to do anything - unless you don't come back when you say. BTw - you need to move away. You cannot carry on living next door.

I think he could get a residency order which would prevent you from removing the children from the uk for longer than a month. But realistically if you're going for four weeks there's nothing he can do. He might be able to have court dates during the time you intend to be with our mum tho.

I personally wouldn't tell him a thing & go about getting as much support & help from loved ones during the early weeks after baby arrives.

And get structured contact set up, at a contact centre if necessary, don't speak to him unless it's about the children. Your ds does not need to witness his father being verbally abusive to his mother.

Good luck.

Your not our! Stupid phone

I don't think it's a 'month' think it's 28 days.

would a res order mean he would have custody of children? :( Passport takes 2 weeks when you send it off with BC. It will be 28 days like ILT says. I wouldn't go for longer as don't want to risk losing benefits. Country is non-hague but pol situation far to unstable for my liking so would never stay for longer. (it is safe where we are though! DCs not at risk...more likely to get mugged here!) Trying to sort out strcutured contact with him now. And have welcomed mediation with him. Been lurking this site and others to get idea of what usual arrangements are and offered that. Have no intention of stopping his contact nor childrens rights to him. Trying to get onto housing...have a roof over our heads though so social housing looking unlikely..lha doesnt cover rent in area-most of time no where near! so private is out :(

If you are the main carer of children the courts are unlikely to change the status quo unless the children are not surviving well in your care. In any case these days residence orders are usually deemed appropriate when for one reason or another it is deemed inappropriate for the child to "live" with the other parent. The outcome of many residence applications now is shared residence so a child "lives" with both parents although it can be in different proportions 50:50.

Under the Child Abduction Act 1984 unless someone has a residence order in their favour it is an offence to take children abroad without the consent of all those with Parental Responsibility for the child or permission from the courts. However, it isn't an offence if consent has been unreasonably withheld, it is believed consent would be given or it hasn't been possible to trace someone to ask for consent.

The problem is your ex could apply to court for a Prohibited Steps Order to prevent the children from being taken out of the jurisdiction. Clearly going on the usual family holiday is reasonable and not child abduction so the probability of the courts granting a PSO is low, but it's the nuisance factor if there is a last minute court hearing. To preempt that you could apply for a Specific Issue Order to get permission from the court.

If your ex managed to convince the police that there was a real flight risk the police could notify "all ports" and you could be stopped from leaving the country with the children.

As a side issue the immigration authorities in some countries (eg Canada and Mexico if I remember correctly) won't admit a child travelling alone with one parent unless there is written consent from the other parent or permission from the courts.

Hope that helps. [hsmile]

OOI, you say your mum lives abroad. Is this a country you come from or have other ties to? Might affect perspective.

i think you should follow STIDW advice and get a solicitor and "To preempt that you could apply for a Specific Issue Order to get permission from the court. " so you have the permission of courts to go for the 27 days.

when you come abck you could also apply for residence order in your favour so set that ball in motion.

Would him not replying to my letter and also refusing to speak about it with me consitute as "unreasonably withholding" consent? I was born where my Mum lives and have family etc out there. But haven't lived there for 23 years-since I was 3! So I don't have any personal ties if you like except my Mum. All the agencies working with us have been telling me just to go, and ignore him (not great legally I know so obviously won't do this.) Genuinely I am not a flight risk..everyone who knows me knows this. And if he had just been reasonable and decent and supportive I wouldn't paticularly want to take our newborn away from him for that kind of duration. But I am desperate and so frightened about how I'll cope alone. This preg has been so sad and miserable. I just want to be loved for a little while so I can get strong and be there properly for the children. After my DS1 birth it took me 3 months to recover because he was so unsupportive and I had literally no sleep or recovery time. It was the hardest thing I've ever done alone.

Will phone solicitor now and see how long/cost of SIO as legal aid will take to long to get (I was going down this route but a shady stupid solicitor who'd just became a Dad told me he'd apply for legal aid and never did!!! This left me with no time/option to go down that route! GRRRRRR)

I think a RO in my favour is a good idea. I plan to make annual trips with children for holidays to see my Mum. So don't really fancy court everytime Mr Control wants to be a douche.

Country we're going to doesn't ask for permission letters etc. I've been led to believe by solicitors that by the time ex got court dates I'd be back in country anyway and he can't afford legal action anyway. Though its not a risk I wish to take.

Sorry about being coy about country we're travelling too. It may give away who I am to those who know me. There is also no worries/concerns about my parenting by any agency and all have commented how lovely and healthy my DS is. He is a wonderful little man :) I am very lucky. He is also safe in Exs care and they have a good bond so no worries about exs care of him. He's just a selfish nobface and refusing to be a responsible and accountable parent and human being.

Hi MMM,

Just to bring some balance to the argument here and also hopefully try and give you some sense.

• I would definately say he needs to start making regular contact with his Son. As your Son is 15months old he is old enough to be taken out and also even if breastfed could stay overnight. Have you discussed the "little and often" contact with your child to be?

• Given your child is so close to due date, i would definately say don't let things bother you at the moment, stress at this point in your pregnancy is not good.

• Your solicitor is wrong where he says "no reply=no objection" and to be quite honest, if i were in a court room with him i would be rattling to get a Judge/LA/Magistrate to tell him to shorten his/her leash to be honest. If he is refusing to allow you to go abroad and this cannot be cleared up. Court will be your option. You don't need costly Solicitors for this. You just have to fill in a document and send it off to the courts to detail dates you need. Even if he doesn't show up then a Court will grant (usually) the ability for you to go overseas.

• Have you come to an arrangement for Maintenance?

On a final note: you've mentioned his behaviours and i have noticed through my experiences that there is likely to be some issues with your conduct? He may have been XYZ but what actions were your ABC's?

Raiken:

Thanks for the balance, it is important to self reflect and have other opinions. I have tried very very hard during this whole process to be as balanced as I can. And always reflect very hard before I make big decisions involving children. I have quite a lot of sense and actually keep being told I've been too nice to him and let him get away with far to much.

I have offered little and often for newborn. I'm not bfing DS1 but he is very dependent on me at night. Even when ex has been in house and DS has woken he cannot calm him and I have to take over (this isn't me walking in and pushing ex away-its ex asking me to sort it out. Me not being there to soothe him makes him go crazy. This is most likely because ex really hasn't been around very much. He has spent more time away from DS then with him. I have literally been the only person he knows is always there. For the 1st 6 months of his life he had very little contact with other people due to environments ex put us in. Ex won't be regular because he expects us to fit in with his life.

Yes I have abcs...Unlike ex I have sat and had some very difficult moments listening to how I made him feel and where I went wrong too- He blames me 100% and has denied his violence, emotional abuse and disgusting behaviours...citing I deserve it, or he could't help himself, or I am a liar. I am not a liar. I Have been very honest with SS, Police, HV etc about what I am not proud of and what he has told me. I have seeked counselling and received it-this will continue after the birth, reading books to try and change behaviours and also "get better" for the sake of the children. Like I said in the beginning...split was both of our faults. I have tried to be reasonable with him, I have tried to talk, I have tried to get structured everythiing. All met with..."there's no point, or we'll talk about it another time-this never happens, I haven't got time for this or his favourite which is..your talking rubbish..I don't agree..so we're not discussing it. or he just hangs up/walks out. This was his behaviour towards me in the relationship too...doesn't matter what its reagrding.

Its a it hard to not let things bother me when I am alone without much help and he is constantly trying to control, manipulate, hurt and punish me. Its also hard to not let things bother me when he and his family behave the way they do and do nothing to help..even when I am so heavily pregnant or when I'm ill, or anything. Please bear in mind they live next door. I am not being dramatic either..thats the worst thing. They are genuinly the kind of family who just think differently from the rest of society.

Maintainence again is unstructured. He isn't paying this week because he can't afford it apparently. Although he sat in coffee shops for 2 days this week "working" on his business plan.

What form is it I'll need? And can I download it from internet. I have a solic appt for next wed but if I can bypass this that would be great.

I never pretend to be perfect, I have a lot to work on-like most people. But I have done so much since the split, and worked very hard and I am proud of where I am now in comparison to when he left.

Raiken: An abusive man is an abusive man and the abuse is never the victim's fault. The OP has various agencies working with her to minimize the damage caused by this abusive man. It is not helpful to tell her that she must be to blame for his behaviour.