Hi everyone,advice over shared custody please

[Alanefc]

I'm wondering if anyone can give me some advice please,I split with my ex 3 months ago,her choice,definetely not mine.She has been suffering from severe PND since last year,i took as much time off work as humanly possible to help her thru it and as i work nights i was only sleeping for 4 hours after work the next day to help her thru it.

It didnt work and she ended up on Prozac,a terrible drug.She told me she no longer loved me and we ended on good terms and she said there was nobody else involved,not long after she told me there was,a 54 year old man she worked with who she had previously informed used to be a male escort! We had an informal arrangement over the children,and believe me when we were together we were 50/50 on the childcare,i used to bath the boys and put them to bed every night,since her meeting this new man she has changed dramaticaly and we are now at the stage where i am no longer allowed to see the children after i raised objections to her taking my 5 year old son to a pub on a Sat night to an adults party,the pub has a terrible reputation so i asked my dad to mind my little boy whilst i had to go to work,which my DS was delighted with.

I have now applied to the court,or my solicitor has for me to have Joint Custody on a 3/4 split one week,and a 4/3 split the next week - He thinks I have a great chance as he says the courts are looking towards shared residence/custody a lot more.I adore my sons and not seeing them for 6 weeks now has left me on the brink,i see my 5 year old at the school gates every day for 5 mins and he adores me,but i cant take him out anywhere.Sorry it's long but i'd love some advice/feedback thanks

As an isolated incident, probably not. Courts may decide it's just a mum who's been pushed over the edge with the stress of a court battle.

I'd definitely press charges though. It was witnessed by the police, a strong indicator in your case that you are the reasonable one having to use court as a last resort against an unreasonable ex. Plus it means she's got another thing to think/worry about and gives you a card to play with. Not pressing charges, she'll think you are weak and can carry on.

If there are other incidents which have happened which you can combine with the above to show that mum is clearly unfit to parent then I'd suggest you use it along with an application for full residence.

It would be foolish to try and claim mum is unfit & unstable but only ask for shared residence. Firstly the obvious question would be "As a caring father who wants the best for his child, if you truly believe mum is unfit, why let her have 4/3 days?" Secondly by going for full residence, you probably will lose and still get awarded shared. Going for shared, you will never get full. if that makes sense.

Thanks for that,she has also been warned by the police for making threats to kill,she is clearly unstable and the police have said it makes no difference whether i want to press charges or not because they are pressing charges anyway.Her boyfriend has also been warned over harassing me and her brother was arrested for threatening behaviour towards me,even tho he can't stand her

Just a point on the kidnap comment... A parent can be prosecuted for abducting their own child. It's not as uncommon as you'd think for one parent to take a child, without the other parent's permission and in violation of a court order.
This is against the law and you can be prosecuted and ordered to return under the hague convention.
www.pact-online.org/

I know a dad whose dd was abducted by her mother and taken abroad. She has been gone 2 years now and interpol are ready to issue yellow papers after she was tracked down but vanished again after telling the authorities she would return to the UK.

The reaction your ex had to you taking your child without informing her first must give you some idea of her feelings. I'm not condoning it, but how would you feel if someone took your child and you didn't know if they were coming back...
You should not take your child out of school as that is not in their best interest. What friends did he want to visit instead of going to school anyhow? Surely his friends shold also have been at school?
Did you not think/realise that doing this may actually backfire on you and your case?
Emotions are clearly running high. Please don't use your dc as a pawn. Treat your ex as you would want her to treat you (even if she doesn't treat you the same)

He had finished school for the day and wanted to come with me,i never took him out of school early.
I spoke to the police who said as there is no court order in place as yet that I can't have kidnapped him,they actualy went out to tell her off for phoning them over that
I informed her that he was coming with me,she was stood next to me at the school and we both held his hand as we walked away from the school,he said he wanted to come with me for a bit and i told her that he would be back by seven as i work nights to which she repled " he had better be",which he was.

Ok firstly why did you both turn up to pick DS up from school? Who was supposed to pick up and why did the other turn up?

So it sounds like you'd agreed (albeit you put her in a situation where she could hardly say no) that he could go with you and he'd be back by 7pm. So how did that escalate into her kicking your car at school and her feeling you'd kidnapped your DS?

My advice is to stop creating situations where things like this can happen. It's can't be good for a 5 year old to have to choose whether he disappoints mum or dad.

you need to get an agreement as to when you will pick up ds from school - as niceguy said, it wont work if you both turning up then battling. however i suspect she isnt going to sit down wiht you adn medaitor is she?

yes press charges, and apply for full residence. it is not good for dc to see a parent behaving like this

i agree she seems to have some "issues" and maybe needs help.

the sooner you issue proceedings and get CAFCASS involved to assess her ability to parent the better.

have your solicitor apply for residence in your favour given the incidents you describe - which have been witnessed by police. as was said - they might decide shared residence or substantial contact for her - but it depends how she presents and if she goes off the rails

Sounds like a power battle. Both parents turn up at school, both walking with ds holding a hand each, both no doubt wanting ds to choose to go with them... Who orchestrated this scenario? Were you meant to collect ds from school or was she?

So your ds wants to see his friends (not uncommon for 5 year olds after school) and so you asked your ds if he'd like to come with dad to go see them and he says 'for a bit'. Poor child not wanting to upset dad or mum and being placed in such a position. What was he supposed to say!?
Please don't use your child as a pawn. You need to discuss these things (like school pick ups) when he is not there. If it was agreed that you'd collect him simply say 'Hiya, I'm sure we agreed I would collect him today. We're heading off to vist xyz friend now. Come on ds, lets get going, give mum a kiss. See you at 7 like we agreed' And then off you go.

I suspect you ex was angry because you just turned up with no warning and then force her into a situation where she couldn't say no to you taking ds without causing a big problem. How upset would you have been if he had choosen to go with her instead of you. Rejected? Worried he's choose her over you and didn't love you as much? She probably feels like this.
And given your ex seems a bit unstable and not handling things to well I think you put her in a very difficult position. Her response of 'he'd better be' clearly points to this not being something she agreed too in advance and of being put on the spot or of something she was concerned about (whether rightly or wrongly) especially with he rthen calling police to say you'd taken ds.

As Niceguy says there's a very big leap from agreeing to you having him till 7pm and her calling the police because you've kipnapped ds and then attacking you. Somewhere along the lines your point of view and her point of view do not match. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle...

Like I said please try and treat her how you would wish to be treated. Even if she doesn't treat you that way. And don't allow your dc to be a pawn in your break up.

The Hague Convention only applies to overseas removal and isn't relevant here (in actual fact, it isn't worth the paper it's written on with some signatories, but that's another story)
As regards Shared Residence( the CA '89 did away with "custody" and "access") you are right to apply for it but understand that it will grant you little not already covered by PR. You probably won't get 50/50 through the courts (I've never known them to order it, other than by consent) You should, all things being fair and equal, which they rarely are in these proceedings, be able to get alternate weekends and a midweek, along with a 50/50 share of holidays. However, you will probably get there by steps.
It is good that the police are dealing with the assault but that will not actually help your case much, other than necessitating a 3rd party (or school) for handovers. Had it been the other way round, it would have been used to prevent you having contact. Sadly, that is how the DV card works and you will have to put up with it.
When you speak to CAFCASS, remain child focussed rather than concentrating on her appalling behaviour.
Lastly, make sure your solicitor has applied for an Interim Contact order as it can take some time to turn these cases round.
Good luck and welcome to hell.

I went to the chool as they told me to come anytime and see him there,and as she has banned contact for no reason I go at 9 am and 3pm when he finishes just to see him for a minute,i never take him but on this occcasion he said he wanted to go with me,so it escalated from there with her kicking my car.
I have spoke to the police today who aer pressing charges,and i have also made contact with social services as well who are ringing me back tomorrow.Her mum was screaming all over the street that she had post natal depression,which i have a LOT of sympathy with her for,all i wanted was an amicable solutiont o contact,i asked her to go to mediation and she replied by text "f**k off",i have tried num,erous times to get her to talk to me about it but she has lost the plot totally,she is very messed up,as is proved by her attacking me in front of my son.My son always spent more time with me that her,she would sneak out of the house to avoid taking him to the shops with her,as he is slightly autistic and can be hard work sometimes

I wouldn't have been upset if he had asked to go with her,he always goes with her and as long as i get to see him for 5 mins a day until we get to court i'm ok with that,as i expect to get a lot more access at court

I've never heard of a school actively involving themselves into a custody dispute. Usually the school will move heaven & earth to avoid them. May I suggest you don't go to school to "see him for a minute" since altercations like that cannot be good for your son.

From what you've said I'm also starting to wonder if a shared residence order is practical. For one to work both parents have to be committed to making it work and right now you are so far apart, I can't see how such an order would help.

A friend of mine went through a court battle a couple of years back and they ended up with a shared order. But as acrimonious as it was, they were arguing (like kids) over hours, the odd day here & there. There was never any assaults and withholding of contact.

I have heard of situations where courts won't order shared residence because it would just prolong the fighting. So instead they award residence to the mother (as usual) and the man would get contact. I've even heard of one case where the father was totally denied contact because it was too stressful on the mother! Go figure!

The teacher in my sons class has said that she hopes that I get joint custody,the head teacher has also said she will submit a report to the court that i have never caused any trouble at the school.The school teacher is actually a relative of hers,but she ahs took my new address to keep me informed with my sons progress.I am going to speak to Social Services tomorrow and seek full custody when we get to court

I think you need to listen to what your legal team tell you (I hope you have the services of counsel for this?)
There is no such thing as custody; what you are referring to is Sole Residence and, based on what you have posted, you haven't a snowball's chance in hell of getting it.
What you will get is contact, increasing by increments to a level the court considers acceptable. It may be a Defined C.O. or a S.R.O. but either way, you will not go from 0-60 in 3 seconds.
The opinion of the teacher is irrelevant and you would do well to be wary of Social Services.
Believe me- I understand the position you are in but turning up at school is not the way to go about this.
Sorry to be blunt but you are going about this the wrong way and asking for trouble. You would do well to do nothing whatsoever without taking proper advice

I have the services of a legal team,why do I not have a snowballs chance of getting Sole Residence,she has a history of mental health problems,currently on Prozac,she has attacked me in front of the children and made false allegations against me to the police,she has been warned for wasting police time with false kidnap allegations.I don't think she is stable enought o cope with 2 children of mine,plus her daughter from a previous relationship.

Good chance, my brother has joint custody. However they used to do a 3/4/4/3 split and were advised a week each in a full block was more settled for the child....two years on it works really well. The other parent has the child from.school for tea on the Thursday of their 'off' week if that makes sense. Good luck!

Lot's of parents are on anti depressants and their children still live with them full time, didn't you say she had PND? That's very common. I'm not a legal expert, but would they really want to split up siblings? You say she has an older daughter who is presumably close to your sons.

you need top focus more on the attacks etc and less on the fact of taking prozac. MH issues per se are only relevant whent ehy manifest as violence/agression/irrational behaviour etc/.

turning up at school for five minutes is not good for the DC - too confusing.

get your solciitor to apply for a contact and/or residence order A>S>A>P - you could offer to see DC in a contact centre if it would help.

Alan,

You will not get Sole Residence because you have not given any grounds for a switch of R. (half the parents in the country are on AD's- including the judge, possibly) What Millie30 and c'estlavielife have told you is quite correct.
I would suggest that you refrain from demonising her for MH issues when dealing with CAFCASS and S.S. as it will backfire on you. You are only raising these issues now that she has stopped contact and it is not your place to make a diagnosis anyway.
The fact that she attacked you won't affect the issue of Residence and false allegations are, sadly, par for the course.
You need to think in the long term as the process of turning this around is usually slow.
In the short term, you are possibly looking at a Prohibited Steps Order, preventing you from turning up at the school.

EttiKetti,that would be ideal for me,i work a week on,week of in my job as a prison officer,i am putting my faith in CAFCASS and the court to see that i am a good dad who just wnts the best for his kids,and i woul dnever demonise her for having PND,she is still an excellent mum,just making some bad decisions at the moment.I've just spoke to my solicitor who said to keep all the police logs till we get to court,he said it certainly won't harm my case with her assaulting me

"i am putting my faith in CAFCASS and the court"
Good luck with that!
No seriously, go and look at the OFSTEAD report for your local CAFCASS office. I doubt it will be any better than any I have read up till now and hopefully will be a wakeup call to what you're getting yourself into.

Please join FNf as a matter of urgency. They will give you lots of advice and give you the real lowdown as to what you can expect. Your solicitor knows you are a meal ticket and doesn't want to worry you at this stage I'm sure. If you knew now how long this will take and what it will cost you financially as well as emotionally you may not be doing it.

SS are vastly understaffed and overworked. They will most likely see you as a parent in a residency/contact battle who is trying to stir things up. Court will also likely view it as that. Your attending school every day, deliberately causing conflict with your ex which is witnessed by your ds, will also go against you.
Yes I understand that it is incredibly hard not seeing your ds. But this is not the way to do it. You have to play the game and it is a very long game. Get yourself into court asap for an interium contact order. It will still take weeks to get any where but you have more chance of re-establishing contact faster if you do not cause conflict with the ex which means she will insist that all contact is only via a contact centre.

And you seriously need to get your story in order here and work out what is best for your dc. You can't say she's a good mother and yet you want residency, or custody as you keep calling despite several people informing you of the correct terminology. This only goes to show how under informed you are on all this. The family court process is brutal and most people who have experienced it can't believe what actually happens in court. It's all behind closed doors so you never get to hear about it either.

Sorry I know this is not what you want to hear. But stop believeing what you solicitor says (he's telling you what you want to hear so you are hanging on to it) and start listenging to what NRP and PWC who have been through this process are telling you.

Fnf is your best bet for frank and honest advice. They have a helpline and the membership fee is well worth the money and far less than an hour with a solicitor will cost you.

"that would be ideal for me,i work a week on,week of "
Again another fundemental mistake.

This is not about what is ideal or best for you, it is about what is best for the dc. Their best interests must be paramount in everything you bring up at court. Your working hours and what suits you are irelevant I'm afraid. I'm sure you want the best for them, so start phrasing everything as this is best for the dc because.....xyz and you may start to get somewhere.

So lets see...
1 week with you 1 week with mum would be in the best interest of your dc because........

And your answer is?

Because that is what court will be interested in.

Gillybean is quite correct about CAFCASS and your general approach but I would be very cautious with FNF. There are some good and knowledgeable people providing support and advice in local branches but I have come across some atrocious advice from their helpline and online forums which have apparently degenerated into a happy hunting ground for ?professional McKenzie friends? some of whom are more of a liability than a help.
I was recently informed by a long standing member of that organisation that its leadership had been hijacked by an unhinged woman who prowls the countryside with an air rifle to fend off her neighbours. The few decent trustees they had were forced out and nobody trusts the ones that are left who have apparently been doing their level best to silence anyone who has tried to salvage the situation.
That being said, I know there are good people in it too at grass roots level but be careful.
As for the week about arrangement, I think it unlikely that you would get such an order unless you and the mother agree it and the court ?rubber stamps? it as a consent order. Although common in other countries, it is not much favoured by courts in the UK. Given the present state of play between you, it seems more likely that you will end up with considerably less and will have to get there incrementally.

I don't attend the school of an afternoon when my ex is there normally,i only go of a morning to see my 5 year old because she can't be bothered to go to the school and sends her dad to take him,we never meet at the school normally so as to avoid any drama.I have now decided to go for full custody and hopefully get considerable contact and hopefully joint residency.She is very unstable,and i may ask for a psychiatric report to be done,as everyone i ask who still talk to her say she is VERY unstable,violent mood swings and temper tantrums.

I think GB put together a fantastic post but i fear it hasn't sunk in.

Put it this way, my CAFCASS officer was the most biased person I met. He didn't listen to a thing I said and kept repeating and talking over me that "The kids need to see their mother more!" and gave me about 2 mins in total....I'd have agreed even if he'd let me explain the reason they don't is because SHE didn't want to. A situation she was more than happy with until i told her I was moving but contact would remain the same to her.

And that I'd tried to negotiate with her but it's hard to come to an agreement if the other side, despite several solicitors letters refuses my proposal for contact but refuses to spell out what she'd like instead. Kind of like trying to hit a target blindfolded!

Luckily for me, it turns out the ex just wanted to save face and faced with the prospect of actually winning, caved in and demanded LESS time than I originally offered. The most pointless and expensive £5k I ever spent. Go figure!

GB is right about one thing. You probably won't find anyone who comes out of a family court hearing saying "Well that was a fair judgement". You'll come out feeling like you've been rogered senseless.

Put your faith in CAFCASS? I'm sure there may be some good ones but I'd rather gouge my own eyes out with a spoon than trust them again.

OP, I fear that quite a lot has failed to sink in. There are a few decent CAFCASS officers but your approach to this will do you no favours with them either.
Once again, there is no such thing as "full custody." By applying for Sole Residence, you will, based on what you have posted here, come across as totally unreasonable.
Asking for a psych report on her will go down like a lead balloon.
You seem to be basing your case on what will suit you and attacking her. Little of what you have posted comes across as child-centred.
Being denied contact with your own child, it is understandable that you want to attack her credibility but I'd suggest that you limit that to these forums.
Continue in that vein with CAFCASS and the courts and it will not go well for you.
Hopefully you have a decent legal team who will convince you to go about this appropriately as you don't appear to be listening to anyone here.
Mind you, I find it strange that a solicitor would guarantee you anything, much less what you have stated.