Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Lone parents

Use our Single Parent forum to speak to other parents raising a child alone.

please advise on contact arrangements

74 replies

stressedatbest · 23/05/2011 10:08

Short background. Ex and I split when dd was weeks old. She is now almost 4. He has always had regular contact, is a good dad etc and I've worked hard to avoid a business like arrangement between us. DD goes for overnights twice a week. We dont always get on but I never refuse contact/reasonable requests for extra time etc. He is a pushy person, and is married to quite a controlling woman who pushes him on stuff, and he then hassles me over it. Now for example, he is pushing for half of all school holidays. I'm more than happy for dd to go in each half term hols for an extra day or two ( on top of her twice weekly overnights). She also has a 2 week foreign hol with him, so he sees her alot, but I object to half of all hols, on the basis that as a school teacher, i am able to provide her with care, whereas in the holidays, his wife is the one who ends up looking after her. He has just had a baby, so says that this factor is irrelant as she needs to see her sister, I agree with this,but don't feel that dd should be there for 3-4 days when she has a willing parent who is free to care for her.
Secondly, this is not the staus quo - it is something new that he ( she) is pushing for. I am from another country, so usually use the half terms to see my parents, his proposals means that I would see them less, as would my DD who needs this valuable time to see her extended family. He and his wife say that we effectively have 'joint custody', so I need to ask him when I'm taking her away, and on all other issues as well. I undertand that he has PR, but as neither of us have been to court, I'm not sure what they mean by this, but do feel worried. I should make it crystal clear that I am not in any way trying to limit contacvt between dd and her dad - he sees her lots, but they interpret every single action I make as 'obstructive' and I feel I cant win. They have mentioned court action against me.

Please could someone tell me where I stand? ;(

OP posts:
stressedatbest · 25/05/2011 10:34

I should add as well, that ex reguarlarly agrees dates/modificaitons to dates with me in person, then forgets. When it becomes apparant that he has forgotten, he flips and this is when the accusations of obstruction/messing with contact come in. He tellls his wife that I've changed something at the last minute, when it actual fact he agreed to it weeks before, so then get grief from her as well.

OP posts:
Gster · 25/05/2011 11:22

Stressed.

Having read your other threads now, I can understand your moniker. The posting about your DD in the car was quite painful to read.

I think really your question has been answered here. Your ex isn't being unreasonable in asking for half the holidays, and you won't find a solicitor other than a money grabber who'll agree to push that case in that respect I believe.

My ex didn't agree with a 50:50 split of holidays and went from solicitor to solicitor as they all told her I was being perfectly reasonable. And she didn't like being told that at all.

How he arranges your DD's time when she's with him isn't your business, as unfair as it all may seem. And you should certainly remind him that what you do with your DD and how you organize her time, childminders etc is none of his business at all either.

If they are really messing and pushing you around to this degree it may not be a bad thing to get it formalized. Call their bluff, suggest mediation.

I do sympathise really. You're in a stressful job, you're in a stressful situation. It's easy for me to say, but I think you need to find a way to de-stress for your own sake.

cestlavielife · 25/05/2011 11:22

"Ex is insisting they are split as he says he needs to see her in these times as well. He has a weekend night and a mid week night so says i need to arrange visits to family in between" - ok clealry he isnt getting it - the arangements for holidays are different and obviously override the usual term time weekly arrangemets -

you are entitled to take her away for a week and "miss2 his days - but then of crouse eh will also get a week alter and she will miss "your" days that week - over the annual year it will work out and even up.

so if you agreed you take her one week over half term then either time is made up the next week with extra nights or he has her one week the next half term. simples....

a judge will happily agree to each parent taking child for one-two week holidays - so long as over the course of the year you both getting the same .
he is going to look so dumb if he goes to court and says that you can NEVER take her away for a full week because of his midweek days....

gillybean2 · 25/05/2011 18:58

Your ex is unreasonable to ask for half the holidays and his usual day on top. If he gets half and so do you, after the holidays it goes back to the term time arrangement. Otherwise what's to stop you turning up and saying 'hey this is my usual day' and expect him to hand her over... Put it to him like that and maybe he'll understand that half means half each!

I hate to say it but if you do not agree the contact then you don't have to make your dd available. SO if you don't agree with him having the additional day (and I agree he is being unreasonable to expect it) then you don't have to make her available.
Basically if you agree to half the holidays and then he insists on her going to his in your half you haven't agreed that so you can refuse. Best to try and agree and be amicable though, better for yur dd if you can. But don't let him railroad you into what he wants. Yes you should have half the holidays just as much as he should.

So if he wants half the holidays he has to accept that you get your half too. Tell him that is the arrangement for half term and that he will have dd fri till tuesday and you'll have her wed till sunday. That is half each. If he argues don't be there when he turns up to collect her. If he goes to a solicitor about it they'll tell him that's the usual holiday arrangement and he'd be wasting his money at court. Least I hope they would, they may just take his money and he'd find out later in court Grin

WishIWasRimaHorton · 25/05/2011 19:09

on the subject of half the holidays - what does this mean during the long summer holidays, when the kids are off for 6 weeks or so?

i won't be able to take 3 weeks off and neither will ex, i shouldn't imagine.

so does 'normal service' continue and if we each want to take the kids away for a week, then we do that. or is it strictly 50/50 for the full 6 weeks, even though we are both working.

the way it will work for us during term time (i have 8 nights a fortnight and he has 6) is that i won't work a monday and tuesday, because the kids are always with me on a mon and tuesday. he will have the kids weds and thurs (and be at work, so he will have childcare). on one friday he will have the kids; on the other friday i will have the kids.

so what happens in the holidays with 50/50 split? does that mean he has them for literally 50% of the nights in the holiday (in which case he will have a problem as he won't have childcare for mon / tues if he has them those nights and is at work)?

it seems obvious to me that we agree when we want to have time off with the kids and that is a week at a time or whatever, and we each have the same. when we are working in the holidays, however, normal arrangements should be in place. or am i wrong?

(i know he won't agree with me)

gillybean2 · 25/05/2011 19:35

If you ex is demanding half the time he's going to insist on half the holidays now isn't he... Were holidays not discussed in teh court order? It all seems very mickey mouse and you're going to be back at court to resolve these undecided issues at some point I'm guessing.

What you do in your half is up to you. If you can't take all the time off you'll have to use holiday clubs or other childcare. Eg visit to/from grandparents. Or you can ask if he wants them a bit more I guess (but not much point if he's going to leave them with the nanny now is there?)

Quite often the NRP expects the RP to pick up whatever holiday they can't manage or don't want. So most single RP end having to find childcare or rely on relatives and friends.

School hols are one of the hardest juggling acts for single parents. Whetehr the RP or NRP!

stressedatbest · 25/05/2011 19:40

Gilly and cestlavie, thank you for drilling down to the facts of this. There is more to it than a simple case of me trying to obstruct his half-holiday rights.

Gster, you're right, I am stressed. I was alone with dd for 3.5 from her birth, and in that entire time I've had relentless hassle from ex and wife on what they feel their rights are, and their percieved shortcomings in my parenting of dd. It is difficult to contextualise history ..all you have to go on is what you read on here.That said, I thank you also for your input.

Ex has an extremely black and white approach to things. He won't listen to reason and is supported in his efforts by his very vocal wife who insists on a say in every aspect. On top of that, Ex is a forget/busy person and he he 'plays' me off against his wife , in that he will forget an arrangement with me, then tell her I've obstructed it. I cannot win. I will suddenly find that he is too.
Gilly, I wouldn't have the nerve to make dd unavailable to him if he insisted upon it...I honestly would be terrified that it would start a culture of 'I'll take dd whenever I want then' between us...and end up with him taking her from school etc.

For the record Gster, when I was referring to losing flexibility if we got a court order, I meant that in most cases, a court- ordered contact arrangement is usually borne out of a total breakdown in communication and flexibilty. It was not a case of me saying that if he takes me to court, I will be as difficult as I can. Read my earlier post... he has recently decided that he will not be flexible with me any more, despite me continuing to be so.

I should point out, we have managed for 4 years in the way we have. Exp has always had dd for extra time in the hols and never expressed a desire to change it. This thread is because he now he does. There are lots of times when people on here agree that a change in status quo is not the best for the child...whats the difference here?

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 25/05/2011 22:16

wishiwas - i think that normal toutines should run ie same days - but there will be eg fortnight each or one week each when one of you takes kids for annual holiday. you both agree which weeks they will be. for those weeks, one person has the kdis al week to go to seaside or whatever. if no one is away on holiday then normal weekly routine. so whoever needs nanny or holidays clubs uses those

WishIWasRimaHorton · 25/05/2011 22:19

cestlavielife - that's what i think too. but you know who... you can bet he won't see it that way...

gillybean2 · 25/05/2011 22:27

The difference is that your dd is now at school.
You simply tell him that the new arrangements for school holidays is that you have half each, if he has the first half you have the second. He can have the midweek day again when term restarts.
If he objects tell him you'll be knocking on his door to collect her on your ds of the holiday as they must be the same as term time then...

You have to have the guts to do it, otherwise you won't ever be able to take her away on holiday.
A judge will most likely back you up on it if he decided to take it to court. Just tell him how it is and tell him if he wants to discuss it further mediation with just the two of you there.

As to forgetting plans always email and text to confirm them - "as per our discussion on at handover the agreement was that " Then he can't argue later he doesn't remember.

WishIWasRimaHorton · 25/05/2011 22:36

i don't think OP's daughter is at school yet

Jemma1111 · 25/05/2011 22:58

Stressedatbest

I'm completely on your side, your ex and his wife are IMO bullies.
They want to totally call all the shots regarding access arrangements but won't budge an inch to be fair with you.

Don't let them stress you out, write down everything they do or say to you, including how many times you and your DD are let down by your ex.
Basically, get as much as you can to prove you are being as reasonable as you can be and that you have your childs best interest at heart, which you clearly do. Let the courts see how unreasonable your ex and the wife are being.

Don't let control freaks grind you down!

stressedatbest · 26/05/2011 00:02

wish- my dd is in nursery school. Its full time from 9-3 every day. She has just turned 3 when she started, the youngest in her class. She is still 3 years old.

OP posts:
WishIWasRimaHorton · 26/05/2011 00:21

wow - that's young. sorry stressed.

choux · 26/05/2011 01:07

My friend who is semi amicably seperated and has no court order regarding access has a spreadsheet which shows 12 months split into his time with the kids and hers.

When she showed it to me it seemed a bit OCD but it means she can plan when to visit friends and family, holidays and even nights out. He can clearly see how much access he is getting - if you are interested it's 3 hours every Weds, every other weekend and half of all holidays with half terms split 50/50 and the summer with a two week block each and then a one week block each.

Can you not suggest the same and say it will help with everyone planning work, holidays, family visits etc. Then he can see he is getting a v fair split of time etc and the days of the midweek overnight is fixed. And changeable only at everyone's agreement. It sounds like they try to push your flexibility to the limit whilst offering v little so having a sheet you can wave and say 'this was what we agreed and I have now made plans' will make it easier to say no without feeling unreasonable.

I think that the one weekend night each isn't v beneficial - no one can go away for a weekend and it's more disruptive for your daughter than one weekend with you and then one weekend with him.

I'm afraid I sort of agree that the actual carer of your daughter when she is at his house is irrelevant esp now she has a sibling. She needs to feel part of that family unit also and that means spending time with the baby sister who needs her mum.

stressedatbest · 27/05/2011 09:44

Thanks to all of you who have replied, I appreciate your input.

Gilly, with regards to emailing him on events @ school. DD had one yesterday. I found out about it on Monday, and emailed him on monday too. His wife attended the event in his place - I still got an email from him stating this wasn't enough notice and I had not given him enough 'detail' about what the event involved. I did - and have the email to prove it. He said I am trying to keep him out of her school life, even though his wife went to it? I don't get it..and I really can't win. He says that all my gestures mentioned above such as inviting them all to dd's parties, christmas presents, taking dd to visit his family etc are not favours to him, but my role as a parent and that I seem to want bonus points for it.

Thinking about the holidays situation. He said he's happy with 30-40%. As it stands currently though, when he has his extra few days in the holidays, he also insists on his 'regular' 2 days on top, which really messes with things and causes ambiguity for me. I do have more time with her in the hols than him - and he has never said he had a problem with this. All the recent problems between us are that he has insisted that the weekday night is fixed rigidly - and the slightest change in dd's interests are miscontrued as an attempt to thwart contact when they really are not. He insists that the fixed weekday night is for dd's emotional security - yet allowed her to have almost 4 years of unfixed weekday nights. I don't get it.

Ex went on say yesterday that he DD is very attached to his wife and that with the arrival of new baby, needs more attention from her than ever before. He also said that I was selfish to plan my recent house move at the same time as his baby arriving, because I did not consider the impact of all the changes on my dd. He repeatedly claimed that all of their motivations are for dd's interests, whilst mine are usually driven by my own wants and desires. . Last year for example ex registered my dd in several local schools despite the fact that I was already sorting it. I only found out about it when 'acceptance letters' to schools I'd not applied to came in the post. His reponse to this was that my 'apathy' regarding DD's education greatly concerned him and his wife, and therefore decided to be proactive in the interests of DD. When dd was a baby until she was 2 years old, ex and his wife also raised concerns that she was overweight and needed to see a paediatrician. I refused as the health visitor and doctor dismissed it. They said it was 'distressing' to see that I had such little regard for a genuine health concern. They The costant inference that I am a selfish lazy mother is so upsetting.

I guess all this is irrelant though, I just wanted to get it off my chest.

The issue now is where do I go from here? The standard weekday night/every other weekend thing that some of you mention - can I ask - is this say, one night in week - but then they don't visit until the following weekend? ( 1:2?) If it is -I know he will not agree because he would lose a night over a monthly period. He wants regular twice weekly contact.

Choux - I do see the appeal of the 1:2 schedule - being able to plan, no ambiguity etc. I would worry though that my dd would find it hard after 4 years of being this way. She does activities on a sat that she has been doing for a year. I doubt the club will let her continue with only twice-monthly attendance, as I have to pay monthly? I couldn't really expect ex to continue these with her because of the drive. It would be sad to see her this affected although i accept its not the end of the world. I would of course miss her terribly as well, although I guess people are going to say its got nothing to do with how I feel.

If I do offer the above plan and he doesnt run with it, what other options do I have? I've offered mediation but he said its unnecesary as long as I stick to the twice weekly and 30-40% holidays schedule.

OP posts:
stressedatbest · 27/05/2011 22:22

Bumping for advice to my last post , sorry Blush

OP posts:
gillybean2 · 28/05/2011 12:23

Tell him mediation is necessary and you won't be sticking to his version of the holiday schedule as it is not an equal split of the holidays and isn't fair on dd or you.

By saying he is only having 30-40% of the holidays he is trying to make you look unreasonable. He is in fact having over half the holidays but you are buying into his 'reasonable' arguement.
You know it's unfair and you're clearly not happy or you won't have posted

School events... Does he have PR? I'm guessing you weren't married but is his name on dd's birth certificate? If he has PR tell him that you always inform him as soon as school tell you and if he has a problem with that he can contact school directly who will have to provide him the same information directly. SUggest he offers to give them stamped address envelopes in order to send it directly to him (he will find out very rapidly that school inform him with even less notice than they do you). Point out that the nature of primary school is that often events are held with very short notice and that he should take this up with the school if he has an issue with it.

Again I assume he has PR because he could not apply to various schools for your dd without it. Unfortunately with PR he can do this and doesn't have to tell you. And the admissions process is such that the last application before the deadline will be the one accepted. So be really vigilant when it comes to secondary places too and ensure that your primary application is as you want it. Maybe include a note with it stating that if a further application is received from your dd's father that they should contact you as he is making applications without your consent.

You should perhaps point out to him the irony to him of not informing you, let alone discussing his applications to schools, yet expecting you to inform him of school events and then complaining that you do it as soon as school inform you...

Yes all the things you are 'getting off your chest' are important. It sounds like he is trying to undermind you. He should be supporting you and accept that you will disagree on things but such is teh nature of separated parenting. I do wonder how much of this would be happening if his new wife wasn't pushing him to do it. Unfortunately some NRP are a lot more proactive due to the influence of a new partner than they would be without it. I think you just have to keep reminding yourself that it is good that he/they are so interested in you dd's life and that she will hopefully benefit from it.

Suggest this book to him which will hopefully help him (or more likely his new wife will be the one that reads it) see that they need to be sensitive to you and support you as dd's mother rather than undermind you constantly. It also contains info on how to deal with issues should it come to court so make sure you read it too.

If he refuses mediation again I would suggest you get a solicitor to write a letter to him saying that you have offered mediation in order to discuss various aspects of dd including contact in school holidays, her schooling and his constant undermining of you as her mother. Tell him that yu are no longer willing to speak to him on issues other than those directly affecting contact and your dd as you feel they uses these oportunities to undermind you.

Include that you are still willing to try mediation but if he refuses then you have no option but to make the decisions yourself on these issues and will contact him in writing re contact, any changes etc as you feel he is being unreasonable.

I think you need to get a bit harder basically. They know they can push and with the constant undermining you're doubting yourself I feel. And is it any wonder really.

gillybean2 · 28/05/2011 12:26

This book sorry
www.fnf.org.uk/shop/product/categoryid/21/productid/81

mrscolour · 28/05/2011 16:35

It seems he is saying that mediation isn't necessary as long as he gets things his own way!

This situation seems really unfair on you as it seems he's trying to make you feel inadequate by saying he cares about dd's interests and you're just thinking about yourself. That comment about your dd being attached to his wife seems like it was said to hurt you as well. Dd's attachment to her is nothing compared with the attachment she has to you!

Perhaps you need to make it clear to him that mediation will be a lot cheaper that going to court which might have to happen if you can't reach an agreement and going to mediation will give both of you a lot more say in arrangements than going to court.

Don't let yourself be bullied. It is 2 against 1 and it should be between you and your ex. His wife has a role to play but decisions should be made between you and dd's father.

Good luck

stressedatbest · 29/05/2011 12:16

Gilly and mrs colour - thanks so much for your input.
Gilly, I'm amazed at how much time you take to support people on here - I've had lots from you in the past (under another name)and I truly appreciate it. I've spent some time thinking about the every other weekend/half hols thing, and i wonder if you'll help me fine tune a few things before I present it to dd's dad as an option.

1). I already 'agreed' via email to the 30-40% of the holidays thing and the rigidly fixed weekday and saturday overnights. ( literally only yesterday). If I was to now suggest a change to the every other weekend/half hols things - how could that be interpreted by him? ie, 'messing dd about after we'd already agreed)'. He didnt actually ask me - he told me. As you can see from my last post, he recently sent me an email with lots of claims that I do not prioritize our childs emotional security as much as they do, and this is 'distressing to them' ( he literally said this to me in an email) and I'm absolutely terrified that a court would read this and agree with him. The wording of the email is very pasive aggressive, with lots of statements about how our dd's educational/health/stability is of utmost importance to him and he is saddened that I have not always done the same. Would I get a chance to defend myself against these claims in a court? could they see me now trying to change schedules as acting in 'my own interests'?

  1. Please could you explain how the one night in the week/every other weekend thing works exactly. Would it be say, wednesday one week, then the full weekend the following week? ( 1:2). This would mean him losing a day and believe that he will object/react badly.

  2. He has refused mediation. I will offer again in order to discuss these new changes, but if he still refuses and I go ahead and implement them - I know he will simply continue to instruct his wife to collect dd from school on his midweek day. There will be nothing I can do, school wouldn't get involved surely? I would be mortified to have to start dragging them and my lovely childminder into it all. If he does still simply take her from school, what can I do? He has PR and would be entitled to.

  3. In terms of the split holidays. I began this post stating that I objected to it on the basis that it would be too much for DD/she should be with me and not in childcare on those days/dd wouldn't like it. Having read the advice on here, I will now offer this to him. He suggested 30-40% 'as a favour to me', but I believe this is because he would not be able to cover the childcare. I also would like to continue 30-40% but agree with the advice on here that it is fair. How though, could I put it to him, that he could have split holidays, but if he wanted to contiinue 30-40% then I would accept this also.
    I guess what I'm trying to say guys is that if he only wants her 30-40% in hols, then I'm happy with that, but would offer him 50-50 to show that I am being fair to everyone. How should I approach the holidays thing?

  4. Moving to every other weekend, instead of split weekends would sadly mean that my dd would miss her little club that she goes to a saturday morning with her friends. I had also signed her up to swimming lessons to begin in June. I couldn't expect her dadto do a 35 mile round trip to contine these, so she might end up not being allowed to contine the club/lessons. Do you havea any suggestions on how I deal with this? DD would be upset.

  5. Finally, sorry if this is a dumb question, but how exactly do you split a week or two week holiday? does it start on the friday and he would bring her back on the wed? When would his contact start again?

I'm really sorry about this monumental post. I feel like I need to know exactly where I stand before I put this propsal to him.

Thanks so much

OP posts:
gillybean2 · 29/05/2011 13:55

Hi Stressed. You do sound very stressed right now.

This will be a momoth response to your mammoth post :)

I will try and answer your points one at a time but first you must stop worrying so much about what he and his wife think and what they think about you as a parent. It is very hard I know to stay strong when someone you cared and even loved says such hurtful horrible things about you. You start to doubt your ability and question yourself. Stop listening to him. You are a brilliant mum and you just keep doing what you feel is right and best for your dd.

All that really matters is that you are the best mum you can be to your dd (that doesn't mean be super mum, just the best you can achieve on any given day) and that you put her wellbeing first (and not your ex's). So stop buying in to his undermining of you. You do sound like you believe some of what he says and it is complete rot. He is trying to convince you he is being reasonable to get what he wants. He clearly knows which buttons to push. ALmost anyone who is being told repeatedly that they are selfish and not thinking of their dc's welbeing will start to question themselves. So try and see it for what it is and ignore him. A good father would not be slatting his child's mother just to get his own way!

Repeat to yourself (and to him) - I am dd's mum, I believe this to be in her best interest and I will decide what is best because as her mum that is my responsibility. I would like ex's support but I won't expect nor do I need it to parent my dd. If he disagrees with any of my decisions I will go to mediation to discuss it with him. If he refuses that is his problem not mine.
And breath...
If he starts to argue then repeat ad nauseum and/or walk away from him saying you will discuss it at mediation if he wishes to discuss it.

Ok so now to your points...

  1. You simply say you have thought some more about this and want to be sure you get the best decision for dd at this time. Agreeing via email does not mean it is set in stone. Say you've had some other ideas now you've mulled over it a while and would like to try xyz instead. If he says 'but you agreed' simply say that as a parent some flexibility is needed and you are sure he understands that you want a good situation for dd for him and for you all.

Don't worry about what a court will think of you. But do keep every text, email etc he sends you. Never send anything to him without asking yourself first 'is this reasonable, would it reflect badly on me should it go to court'. That way you'll be less tempted to reply with what you think/feel about him and be emotional in your responses. You'll simply be clear and focus on the facts. Do not be drawn into arguments or discussions on your parenting style. You parent differently to him, neither is right or wrong.

If he says that "dd's educational/health/stability is of utmost importance to him and he is saddened that I have not always done the same", simply reply with ' I am very glad to hear you stress yet again how important dd's wellbeing is in all this. I'm sure when you've reflected on this some more you will come to understand that dd's wellbeing is my main priority and that as her parents we need to work together for her benefit. Constantly undermining my parenting is not of benefit to dd and just because we differ in our opinions doesn't mean that either one of us is right or wrong, we just have different views. Maybe with mediation you will come to undertsand my point of view more, even if you don't agree with it.'

  1. As I understand it your ex currently has 1 midweek (wednesday) and 1 weekend of contact. That works out as 2 nights a week, or 4 nights in a fortnight. The every other weekend and 1 midweek works as follows - dd would go every wednesday, and then every other weekend she will go for 2 overnights (say fri and sat night). This works out as 4 nights a fortnight, so he has exactly the same contact, he and dd just gets longer in one stretch. The longest your dd will go without seeing him is from sunday to wednesday one week and wed to wed the following.

You can offer a skye/phone call in between on the longer week to keep contact up if you think this would help convince him. DOn't offer it right away though, wait till he objects then throw it in there after you've thought of it as a possible solution...

Also suggest that moving forward it will then be easier for dd to say from fri to monday morning (3 overnights) once she gets used to longer times with them and is at primary school.
That doesn't mean it starts the day she starts primary, but it does give them food for thought in moving forward with this.

  1. If he refuses mediation make sure you have it in writing. Write back saying something like, 'I am sad to hear that you are unwilling to discuss the situation and have again refused my repeated offers of mediation. I hope you will reconsider as it is in dd's best interests for us to discuss and agree on these contact arangements. If you are unwilling to do so I'm afraid it makes like very difficult for everyone and dd is the one who will suffer. The arrangements are as follows and if you wish to discuss or change the arrangements please agree to mediation, otherwise they will stand as follows" Then list the contact days and times.

Who picks dd up from nursery on the days you work? Is it always your childminder?
You need to explain to the nursery that you are having contact issues and that ex or his wife will be picking her up on wednesdays and every other friday only (or whatever dates you agree).
Give the specific dates and be sure when you/CM drop her off to confirm with the senior staff memeber that it ok Ex/NW to pick her up today or that it will be you/CM and she mustn't be handed to new wife. The new wife does not have PR and so can only pick her up with permission, she does not have a right to do so.
Yes your ex could kick up a fuss on this and insist nursery follow his requests as he has PR, but nursery will more than likely follow your requests.
Make sure you/CM are there on time every time to collect her.
Put in writing to the nursery what the pick up arranegments are each day so there can be no doubt.

  1. Re holidays say that, having thought on this some more, you feel the situation would be fairer to have a 50/50 split on all holidays but that this would superceed normal contact days. So his usual midweek and weekends would be dropped and instead you are proposing an arrangement of.... and then list what you'd like, eg half of all half terms, one week each at easter and xmas and a split of the summer holidays. Say you will provide more details on this once he confirms this is agreeable to him.

State that you undertsand that this is more than he wanted originally, but in light of the fact that the usual midweek days will be dropped you feel this comes out to about the same but that if he can't agree to it you are willing to cover whichever days he can't manage and to let you know where the issues are so you can take this into account in your holiday split proposal for the coming year.
Point out that although you have all the holidays off and therefore are able to have dd all holidays if necessary, you feel it in her best interests to split them equally and you hope he agrees.

Also ask him to let you know as soon as possible any speficic dates he would like if they have plans to go away etc, so you can ensure that these are included in his half of the holiday split for this year.
You will let him have a list of the holidays and how you propose they be split once he provides this info to you. If you do not hear from him by (give a date of say 3 weeks) then you will simply allocate the holidays half and half.

This shows you to be resaonable, understanding and considerate of his requirements. If also shows you are willing to be fair and he is the one who has to run round making enough time or having to refuse the additional time you are offering.

Once you have the dates (I think you mentioned he was going away for a week with her?) then make a holiday plan and provide him with a copy, email it too and ask for confirmation that he has received it.

  1. Re the club and swimming simply point out that she attends these and you hope he will consider keeping these up on his weekend but accept it is his choice. Ask him to consider taking her swimming instead on his weekend if he can't take her to her lesson as you believe learning to swim is an important life skill.
    But I'm afraid you will have to step back on that one and let him choose. But do wors it is a subtle way to point out that doing these things would be of benefit to your dd to help maintain her usual routine etc.
    If he won't do the swimming lessons you may have to consider a lesson on a different day perhaps.

  2. A common solution to half term splits is that whoever would usually have the first weekend (ie following the usual term routine) has the first half of the half term. That person has from the friday to the wednesday, the other has wed night to sunday night or monday morning (school drop off - if that is the usual weekend arranegement)

Easter would be a week each, alternate each year who gets the first and second week.

Xmas a week each but again term can end on different days and xmas is on different days.

How do you want to see xmas day split? Do you want to split it so you see dd every xmas, or would you prefer to have her the whole of xmas eve and day one year and have boxing day and new year the year after?
There are pros and cons to each. It can be hard not to see your dd on xmas day. However it can be equally hard to have the morning with her and then send her off for xmas dinner with her dad and you be left with an empty house. It also makes it hard for the person doing teh travelling on the day and if you want to go away to visit family.
So think about what you think you would prefer and also what you could cope best with.

Then you can either do a week each with the handoever being on xmas day/eve. Or you can do a few days, then swap (so you get a bit of xmas build up/excitement each)
Perhaps ask him if he'd be happy to have boxing day and new year ever year if you have xmas eve and day every year as you dont have to worry about taking time off over and above the bank holidays.
Make it look like you are being resonable and considerate of his needs when making the decision then he can't argue too much.

With the summer holidays you have to decide how to do this. You have several options

  1. A week each then swap x3
  2. 2 weeks each then an week each
  3. 10 days each then swap x 2
  4. Any other comination you want.

What you decide will be based on several factors such as dd's age and how long you think is appropriate to be away from you and her dad in a row.

You could suggest that to start with you do a week each but that moving forward you anticipate extending this (as dd gets used to longer times with them and because you undertand that he, as will you, will want to take her away on holiday which can be tricky in just a week.

So say that you anticipate this will move to 10 days and then a 2 week slot in the future as dd gets older.

Saying this now means you are not tied to the 1 week each thing when you want to go for a longer stretch to visit your family or to go away on holiday in future.

I hope these suggestions can help you come to a decision on what to suggest to your ex and helps you resolve some of the issues you currently have. The main things to remember are to come across as reasonable at all times so he can't accuse you of being otherwise, and to think is this best and right for dd. Everyone's situation is different and so you should

Always remember the ball is in your court. If you choose to decide what the arrangements are you can and he would have to take you to court to change it.
Court is awful, stressful,m, expensive and you'd haveto go along with whatever the court ordered. SO I do recommend seeing if you can come to an agreement between you.
Hoever if you put forward reasonable proposals (like those above) and come across as child focused andthinking of your dd in everything then he wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court anyhow. A sol would tell him that you offering half the holidays, every other weekend and a mid week is more than reasonable and he should take it.
Bear that in mind if he starts ranting and raving at you and stand firm!

Best wishes

gillybean2 · 29/05/2011 14:08

One further thought, what about non pupill days?
I'm guessing your CM usually covers these but to show willing perhaps you can offer these to him as an extra.
Bring it up later during negotiations maybe ratehr than laying all your cards out now. You want him to think you are compromising and giving more so he feels like he's got as much as he can out of you. Then he will be all warm and gloaty about it rather than feeling like he's doing you a favour.

So when he's asking for more or saying that bringing her back sunday night rather than monday in half term means he has slightly less than half the holidays throw it in as a solution.
"Hmm, yes I see that. What about you having dd on the 5 non pupil days every year. My CM is happy to have her of course but if you wanted extra time then perhaps you could take time off and cover those. I'll still have to pay her of course, so if you aren't able to it's no biggy..."

stressedatbest · 31/05/2011 12:23

Gilly

Thanks so much, you've been fantastic.
xx

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread