Still can't trust a man with dd. Pls help!!

[bellbottom]

Finally I'm allowing a relationship to begin and to flourish. The man that has wanted to be with me for 2 years is now my boyfriend. We tried twice, but broke up, we seemed to clash and had a lot of issues to resolve. But this time it's different and I feel like love is coming into my life for the first time in so long. Dd is 3 and I feel he brings us both so much joy. She grows when he's in her life and is so much more happy. It's a huge difference to share your child with someone. A different world. I've been going it alone since pregnancy.
BUT, I still cannot trust him, or any man, with dd. My greatest fear is child abuse and I feel I can't take a single risk. I won't leave him alone with her inside for any length of time. It only happened once when I popped out to the shop for 10 minutes and I couldn't get it out of my mind. I allow him to be alone with her in public spaces. But anything else leaves me feeling like I'm playing russian roulette. No matter how much I love someone, I always feel there's still a chance they could have a hidden agenda. It kills me. I can't go on living this way. I wonder is there something I can do to overcome this?
I keep thinking I'll continue like this until she's old enough to know for sure about what is right and wrong when it comes to physical contact. But that could be another 7 years!
She's now at the stage where she says things like this to him ' I'm going to see your bottom'. haha. Or tries to open the belt of his trousers in jest. I always freak out at moments like that, I go into a panic, wondering if there's something going on between them behind the scenes. It's like a sickness. I also cringe with despair if she walks oit of her room naked on the way to the bath or something and dances around in all her innocence.
He's absolutely brilliant with her, teaches her so much, plays with her endlessly, makes her laugh, goes right back to his childhood when he spends time with her, in a way that I'm not able to. I feel he gives her exactly what she needs and male energy that is so important. Life feels more complete.
I wish I wasn't so consumed by this fear. How can I know if there is any chance it could actually happen? Would there be any clues or signs?
Dd means the world to me. I feel it is my responsibility to protect her 100%, even if that means giving up my chances for freedom. I already spent 3 years declining all offers of sleepovers because of this fear and never left her alone with any man other than my dad!
My boyfriend knows of this fear as we spoke about it when we first got together. Now its more of an unspoken thing but I know he can feel that I'm not moving past it. He sees her as his daughter and would be alone with her a lot if I let him.
Mumsnet is the only place I know of right now where I can turn to for support,
I need to hear from other mothers who may have struggled with this issue and come to terms with it in a positive way, or from mothers who have faced the harsh reality of this fear and have some advice to give.
I realise it's a sensitive and difficult topic and I hope there are some of you who are willing and able to share your experiences.
Many thanks.

sleep overs at age 3 ?
i would decline too.

as a lone parent im almost always with my children (unless they are with relatives)

i had a 3 year old DD when i met my second husband, he never did babysitting or childcare favours.
when DD was sleeping, i would be the one to check on her.
i did bath time and bed time.

is he suggesting time alone with her?
does he put down appropriate boundaries when it comes to physical contact?

i come from a long line of prudes, and by this age had already told DD our 'private parts' are private, they belong to her, and no body else can touch them...

i would discourage naked running around if anybody else is the house.

i dont think its appropriate.

My first instinct is that you need to stop reading the Daily Mail.

Child abuse is a heinous crime which rightly shocks any sane adult to the core. But thankfully it is incredibly rare. Statistics show that even in the rare cases of child abuse, it is often relatives who are the perpetrators. Abuse by third parties therefore are even rarer.

My point is that where do you draw the line? Do you not cross the road beause your DD may get run over? I mean statistically there's a greater chance of your DD getting hurt on the road than from child abuse.

Your job as a parent is not "protection at all costs". You do that and your daughter will grow up a lonely child who cannot cope with the world as she's never experienced it. Only part of your job is to protect. The rest is to teach. You cannot teach your DD about life if she's never allowed to mingle with others without you.

Your man will at some point probably grow tired of always being suspected of being a potential peado.

A 3 yr old having a sleepover is not a problem and certainly not unusual. My stepson is now 4 but has been having sleepovers since he was about 2.5. He has a great time and often doesn't want to come home.

I do wonder where this fear stems from? Has anything happened to you in your youth? Or is this just reading too much press?

presume there is some specific reason fo these fears? personal expereince? in which case o see a specialsit counsellor .

if not specific - then see a counsellor anyway - eg CBT type work on addressing your anxieties

Can i ask the same as cestlaviw? Is there a particular reason that you worry abot this? Either way, I agree, you need counselling. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 3 year old running around the house naked.

If it is just a press/ media thing then really, you need ot get over it. It is soooooo rare that these things happen. This guy has been around for 2 years. if he was in your life to prey on your DD do you not think that the policing he has experienced up until now would have made him move on? I don't have a lot of experience in the area but generally peodophiles will prey on children who are vunerable. Your child isn't at all vunerable by the sound of it.

I fear that if you don't get this sorted out then your DD will grow up with an unatural fear of men and also a shame of her body.

If someone is going to abuse her, it's no more likely that this will happen because she was naked.

Thanks Lowercase and niceguy2.
2 very different opinions and that is what I have so far experienced when I share my worry with friends. Although I have to to say that lowercase and I are defeinately in the minority, because it seems most people prefer to approach it from niceguy2's angle. It leaves me feeling really lonely. The first thing on people's lips is always ' has something happened in your youth'. but no, nothing did. It's simply that I find child abuse the most disturbing of all things, for me it's my greatest fear with regards to my child. I see it that I am the one who is here to protect her and if I don't then who will?
The sleepover issue has nothing to do with her enjoyment of it. She's always been radically independant and asks for sleepovers all the time! She loves being in her own world, a true explorer. She slept over the road with another single mum and her dd when she was small a few times and barely looked back to wave me goodbye. I agree that on many levels it's all good for them. But when there's a man around, a husband that I barely know, then how can I as her mother agree to leaving her there, just because I happen to be friends with the mother? Is that enough??
I do agree that installing fear into children is bad. I try to avoid this at all costs. I've always tried to stand back, let her try new things, allow her to fall etc. She's a tough one, I think me being this way helped her. She's amazingly confident and I'm so proud of that. BUT, where is the line between that and protecting? It has to come in somewhere. Things do happen to children.
Lowercase - I've also been telling dd that her parts are private and that noone else is to touch here there. But no, I don't see my bf setting down firm physical boundaries. I think I'll ask him to do that. He doesn't insist on being alone with her, but he does try a few times to let that happen, when he knows I want to stay asleep or so. I want to believe that it's because he cares for her and loves being with her and looking after her. BUT, the other voice in my head asks ' how many other women that have gone before me have also wanted to believe that, only to lead to a tradjic consequence"
Sometimes we stay over at my bfs place. Dd sleeps on the top floor and once or twice he has come down telling me that he just checked on her while she was asleep to make sure she was ok. My heart ties up in knots when he says that. I feel so scared!
Lowercase - how can i ensure these things don't happen, without scaring my bf away? How can I ask for that exclusive right? We spend so much time together and we feel like a family. I don't know how to seperate it all from the equation. These are the answers I'm looking for and the advice I need.
This is so heavy on my mind so often and I want it to stop :-(

c'est la vie and pick your brain. I only just saw your replies - thanks also to you both.
It really helps to hear it. I know it seems I need therapy. I had CBT in the past for other things. I do believe in therapy. But for this, I know for sure it won't go away. What I need most of all is to hear from other parents, from both sides. Those that can put my fears into another persepective and those that have faced this and have some words of genuine caution to offer. It's the only way for me to form a balanced mindset on it. I know I will never become a laid-back mum with regards to this, that is for sure. So I want to make sure that I carry the right tools of wisdom to make it through as a parent. Perhaps there are some signs to watch out for before things get to that point? This is what I want to know. Just so that I can be on my guard, without being suspicious all the time. I want to let it all go SO much. I want to trust 100%. I want to just RELAX!!! But I also feel that being a parent carries with it this burden and is one of the many things that make it the hardest job in the world. For me, that is reality.
Please keep the replies coming!! Many thanks :-)

"how many other women that have gone before me have also wanted to believe that, only to lead to a tradjic consequence" Not many, actually.

The state you are in in regard to this matter is not normal. I'm sorry but it's not. So councelling could definitely help.

I am not at all saying that parents of children who have been abused havent been vigilant or caring. But, the norm is for these types of men/women to prey on vunerable children who nobody really notices a change in. I think you'd notice a change very quickly in your DD if anything happened.

You can get a report now on people who come in to contact with your chuldren... how old is this man..? If he is in his 30s/ 40s, even late 20s I know it isnt impossible but why would he have waited all this time, and stuck in a relationship with you for 2 years purely to prey on your DD...

My new partner moved in when my DD was 3 so totally understand your worries.
We agreed boundaries so we are all comfortable e.g I put her to bed, dress her, wash her, go to her in the night etc.
She can not come in our bedroom when he is getting changed and he doesn't walk about with no clothes on.
Is is different when the bond has to grow and these boundaries have allowed this this to blossom without anyone being uncomfortable.

Hope this helps.

Bellbottom, since you do feel happy with your dad looking after her, maybe this is something you could discuss wih your Dad? He may be able to re-assure you, from a man's pov.

At the root of this, you need to get over your own lack of trust in yourself. You love this man, you observe what a happy influence he is in your home. I assume from your post that he is kind and gentle and never tries to control you, or displayed any actual behaviour which unnerves you?

If this is true, why on earth would you doubt your own good judgement? Why can't you trust yourself to have good judgement, trust thatyou ARE doing the right things by your dd? Or to put it another way, perhaps, do you feel that a man wh is truly honest and decent wouldn't want to be in a relationship with you? Or that the only reasn someone would wish to be with you would be to get a your dd?

Do you see - there is a lot of self doubt, self dislike, lack of self-trust in your fear?

Of course there are checklists of how to spot abusive behaviour, doubtless Googleable. But I think you need to learn to love your own choices.

I would try counselling again.

Good luck!

(and of course 3 yos should be able to skip about without clothes, and family members to be naked, too - all completely normal in many v happy homes. We go camping and swimming within a small group of families, and on several occasions a Dad has ended up in the family showers / changing room with responsibility for group of children including other people's - him naked, kids naked...it's about showering and changing, and ordinary nakedness is NOT about sex)

It's not only men who abuse, so the issue you have is with men needs to be explored. What if a teacher when she starts school is male?? What if she has to see a male doctor?
I agree with poster who suggest you get counselling to deal with your own paranoia over men.
Everybody has concerns over all manner of things but when they become the focus of everything then that overtakes everything else.
You are instillign in your daughter without realising it that men are to be feared. She will soon start to edit her natural behaviour around your partner as she picks up on your uncomfort. It is natural to tell her that private areas are for her only. But if her father figure can not bath her or put her to bed (in a natural parent way) then she may question why you can wash her etc.
Your partner must feel like he is walking on eggshells. If your daughter is comfortable with him as she seams by your writing you should realise how lucky you are to have a man that is a father figure who is happy to spend time wi you daughter

If you have real concerns then he shouldn't be in her life at all. You can get him CRB checked which would highlight any realistic risks

what were the issues before ? "broke up, we seemed to clash and had a lot of issues to resolve."
was it about you trusting him?

you have to trust people - at some point yes you might get it wrong - but that will not be your fault. you can only do so much. if everything says this man is good - then trust him.

see a cousnellor. it seems more deep rooted. maybe to do with your ex (dd's father?? ?

Hmm, I have skim read the other posts but I would like to disagree with the poster who said that abuse is rare. I think it is extremely common, more common than we will ever know and yes the perpetrators are normally part of the family, but that would include boyfriends etc. We have a duty to protect our children but there has to be a balance.

I was abused as a child and I have trust issues with men, something DP is aware of but I do trust him with our DD (2). However I am aware of when DD could come into sole contact with other males and I act accordingly which could mean doing nothing, or it could mean making an excuse for DD not to be alone with a particular individual if I don't feel I trust him fully.

An example for you, my sister was due to be looking after DD for the day and had an appointment and wanted her newish boyfriend to have my DD while she went to the appointment. I said no that DD didn't know him well enough to be left alone with him. Some people would think that was extreme, but I feel that my child is the most important thing in the world and I will take sensible precautions to protect her.

It will be a constant balance between being cautious and not overprotecting her but she is allowed to be naked around family members in appropriate circumstances (going under the hose pipe, paddling pool etc) as I don't want her to feel that she has to hide her body and there is something so innocently lovely about naked little ones.

I don't really have any advice for you but it would be very offputting for a man for him to be constantly being watched etc so I think you need to find a better balance that works for you all.

I see it that I am the one who is here to protect her and if I don't then who will?

I think what this boils down to is trust. You do not trust men. I don't know why. Only you have the answers to that.

But it must be an awful way to live where the default position is that every man in the world is a potential peadophile who is just waiting for the opportunity to abuse your child. Especially considering half the world's population is male. Oh and the fact you then happily sleep with the man whom you secretly fear could be a child abuser.

If you focus on all the things that COULD happen to your daughter then you'd simply be a nervous wreck. Kids are subject to danger everyday. It's down to us as parents to assess the risk and teach our kids to be able to do the same too.

A plane could land on my house tonight whilst I'm asleep. I'm sure statistically it's possible. Just as much as an abuser could climb through my window. But you just can't worry about what if's. I'd go mad if I did.

reddaisy's example makes sense - not someone you knew well or even the sister knew well.
but op is talking about a boyfriend she been with for two years - if you cant trust him now then you wont ever will you?

my son's home to school taxi driver was convicted of assualt on a child recently -turns out wh was a paediphile who slipped thru teh CRB net....i will never know if anything happaned to my Ds (he has severe SN) but looking back i can identify odd things and creepy over friendliness - and i feel sick at th thought...but i will still have to trust male (and female) carers in future to look after my ds... tho will rely on gut feeling a little more....

but as niceguy said - you need sleeping with boyfriend long enough to decide if you trust him or not.... and being careful doesnt mean being paranoid about every person

also, when you are a single parent i think decisions weigh more heavily, bell has sole responsibility for all of it...
i never put my DD or DS in a situation where i am not 100% comfortable.

like reddaisy says, abuse is more common than you think, and usually by someone you know, thats a fact.

where i grew up a friends father was convicted of child abuse, one of our neighbours was a (serial) flasher and in the next town a girl was assaulted and killed by a caregiver.
as an adult, i was friends with someone who went on to be convicted of rape, and a local womans son was imprisoned for sexual assaults.
a male friend travelled on a coach from london to wiltshire, fell asleep and woke to find another man touching him.

i could go on and on...not the daily mail, just one womans life experience.

if your boyf loves you, he will respect your boundaries, reassure you and stick around.
he can help you in ways other than solely caring for DD.

gu.com/p/2p6d8

Tried to add a link here, not sure if i've done it right.

I have read through the other posts, and am suprised at the type of response given. Especially from posters who normally give 'good advice'.
I guess you can't really know what a parent is going through unless you have been through it yourself.

The small number of responses also shows to some extent how taboo a subject this still is (even when our real identities are still hidden) and how ill-informed people are about the harsh realities surrounding child abuse.

YES it is mostly a crime committed by someone known to the child. NOT necesarily related, could be a friend, neighbour, boyfriend/girlfriend, teacher etc etc.....quite simply someone who has access to the child. So why not the OP's boyfriend???

The child is not always a vulnerable child, all children are vulnerable. As some abusers are opportunists, who given the opportunity will offend.

I did also post about my situation a few years back on another forum, as I was in a similar situation, I was searching also for useful, helpful and understanding responses, yet also got people telling me their must be something wrong with me mentally to even think such a thing. Some would also say that maybe i had been abused myself and so i was overprotective.
I was left to feel worse than i already did, and all i wanted was some help in an already difficult situation and to do what was best for my child.

I realised that forums were not the right place to go for advise, as although some people did share how it had happened to them and it was mostly someone close to them and one lady said that she didn't think her mother knew about it, but if she had she would have done something about it.

Instead OP I suggest you contact a professional organistaion and put your worries to them in a calm manner. Stop it Now was who i initially contacted, you do not give your detaiils. I found them to be really helpful and understanding and they pointed me in the right direction.
MOSAC was another really helpful organistaion who has a helpline and a website. www.mosac.org.uk

You need to be in touch with people who will understand you and not judge you, as this is about the wellbeing of something as valueable as your child!

I will inbox you and you will also find usefull info on MOSAC's website.
I had niggling worries, but tried to ignore them as I wanted to believe that my husband who i really loved and who was ever so good with our dd that i thought i was just being paranoid and he would never do such a thing!

If you have worries, explore them and try to get to the bottom of why they are there? If its not abuse then at least you will know, but God forbid it is, then at least you will have saved your DD.

But for your DD to try and 'unzip' your bf's trousers and talking about his 'bottom' worries me too.

Dear posters,
I am very grateful for all your posts. I know its a difficult subject and appreciate everyone has an individual opinion.
Allalone - It is you and only you that has really understood my concern but also my NEED for reassurance with facts and the appropriate support, so I am thank you immensly for the associations you have listed, as I would not have known about them otherwise. You are also the only one who seems to understand that this fear is very real and judging it does not help. I also agree with you that abuse is hidden and a taboo and is, I believe, far more common than people dare to imagine.
I also think that people don't want to face this as it's so scary and thats perhaps why the majority will choose to pass off my fear as irrational.
I have so many people from all angles in my life urging me to go easy on myself and alllow myself freedom by accepting offers of help from friends, letting dd go into their homes. For me, the fear outweighs the benefit I would have by having free time to myself. When I became pregnant I chose not to stay with the father for valid reasons and I chose to become a mother, a single mother. With that choice I embrace all resposiblilty and sacrifices, as tough as it is.
I will definatley get in touch with the places you listed and try to put my mind to some rest. Im scared of this issue, but Im also scared I may never be able to move forwards and trust a man with dd and that is also a sad thing, so I need to explore my options further.
Thanks again for uderstanding and HEARING me!!!
What was the outcome with your husband? Did you go through something bad or were you just scared?
Bless you and all the very best,
BB

BB I'm glad I was able to point you in the right direction, just like you I was totally unaware of where to go and who to turn to. But thanks to the internet, I was able to find the help, to get me through.

Just like alot of other people I was totally oblivious to abuse, I thought that mine was just a normal family, little did I know.

Mine and my dc's life has changed and will never be the same. :(

The man I THOUGHT I knew and loved wasn't who I thought he was.

He has let me and our dc's down especially our dd.

I have sent you a private message to explain my story in more detail.

I had a strange feeling that something wasn't right, but couldnt quite put my finger on it.
Lots of things that i had seen or happened, I tried to rationalise, and didn't think too much of.
Which i later found were signs of abuse.

I think if you ARE scared then there has to be something deeper which accounts for the fear, it may well be previous experience of abuse either to the self or someone you know. Or in my case ongoing abuse, which some people don't believe but others would call a 'mothers/gut instinct'.