am i being unreasonable to cool off contact??

[gingerrapunzel]

between my children and my abusive ex partners.

2 years after breaking up with him, i have tried to facilitate contact for my 2 childresn (3+4.5), but i am coming to the conclusion that I dont think it is working in a manner that works for them.

he is still displaying agressive behaviour towards me (threats, shouting and emotional abuse, as well as stealing etc). This has happened in front of the children.

Despite my threats and social services attempts to make him listen to what is appropriate, he has not changed.

The latest event (last week) he threatened to kill me and now is being charged

I am concerned about the children and impact his behaviour has having on them (normalising shouting, aggressive behaviour etc) and he seems incapable of putting their interests first.

I know generally children deserve to know both parents but what if they are small and need protecting from a bad role model?

Has anyone experienced this before and managed to get away from an exp? I know it sounds extreme but I am thinking of moving to escape him as scared courts would give him access as he has not physically harmed them (and disregard the indirect damage he is doing).

you can ask for supervised contact in a contact centre so he can prove himself around the children.

What's SS's take on all of this, as from your OP they're involved already?

Personally I think YANBU and I have an ex whose behaviour was similar to yours. I agree with you that DC need protection from bad role models and that they can be damaged by emotional abuse which is often underestimated by the courts and SS in this type of case.

I moved away from my ex when my DC were toddlers although his behaviour wasn't a factor in the move. We've had no contact with him since - he had an unstable lifestyle and I didn't know where he lived for years and he's made no attempts to make contact.

I'm actually quite relieved about it as I'm sure his behaviour would have just got worse as the DC grew older and I think we had a lucky escape. They are happy and well-adjusted now and I'm certain that wouldn't be the case if they had to put up with kind of behaviour and abuse their father showed. I know so many other LP families where the children have been traumatised by their father's behaviour, but it's not been recognised by CAFCASS as their threshold is so high.

I think there's nothing morally wrong in what you're suggesting, I'd just be concerned that if your ex chose to pursue/prevent you he could have the law on his side, unfortunately.

Thanks for the posts. Like the idea of contact centre but have heard these are unlikely to be allocated unless court is very concerned about harm and this is not easy test to meet, echoing other people's comments CAFCASS.

SS closed the case. Even though they could not get through to ex, they said they did not need to remain involved as i could see fit to protect the children. I was in agreement with them closing the close. The threat of SS was no worry to my ex and he had no qualms about ignoring them so I do not feel that they could add anything in my case.

Ambrosiapetal - how have your children dealt with having no contact with dad? are they sad or do you have fears that they will one day contact him and be upset with you (regardless of the fact it is his responsibility vs yours) that he is not around? these are some of the fears I have, but obviously need to be weighed up against real fears of children being further harmed by seeing dad's behaviour.

Hmmm. Tricky. I've always said for my situation that my DD (like all children) has the right to contact with her mother so long as that contact is safe and appropriate. I keep telling the ex DD also has the right to be maintained by her, but that's another story...

Gotta say I'm leaning towards "move away", and I'd venture that what SS said regarding seeing you as fit to protect the DC is their code for "you go do what you need to do about this".

Do you have his behaviour documented? I ask mainly for the future - the DC are aware of how he is now, but their memories will fade.

Would you consider trying a contact centre? You could look at it as a way that his behaviour can be further documented (though not by the centre unless you have upwards of £60 a time to spend), whilst giving him a chance to change.

Well, its documented through police record, i guess (and replasterd over holes in wall/ rebuilt floorboards and pacthed up cupbaords!!).

I guess the thing is kids like seeing dad. They are not scared by him shouting and kicking door cos they are little they think its is funny. I have been told that this is not an unusual reaction. Its causing issues with kids though as they come back from dads copying some of these behaviours.....

Guess its never black and white but want to protect them and give them an opportunity to grow into mature responsible young me with loving nuturing background and not inconsistent aggressive role model who refuses to look at his own behaviour.

I know kids have right to know dad but these are such vunerable ages for development....I cant (and its not my place) to keep him away for ever but oerhaps I have weighed balance too much in favour of contact to date I am thinking.

Its such a tough choice to make.

Well, self-referral to a contact centre would result in contact where he'd be in a room with several other contactees and children, so at least there'd be other people around. The hand-overs can be done with minimal interaction between you and him. The sessions are generally up to four hours maximum, so it's not like he shouldn't be able to cope with them for that long. And if he still shows off his temper, he'll be asked to leave, you'll be told, and that will be the end of direct contact.

You could then go to indirect contact - phone calls, web cam, letters - until the dc are older.

And, of course, you would know you'd done all you could.

SSD gives good advice and I would just add that the key thing to remember here is that it is all this man's OWN fault. If he could stop being a violent knob, he would see more of his DC.
But do not ever let him in your house.

Hi rapunzel, just to let you know have inboxed you. Stay strong :)

gingerrapunzel, my boys are 12 and 13 now and it's ten years since they saw their dad. They don't have real memories of him really, although we have some photos from back then so they are aware of the history. I don't think they feel sad that they don't see him now and it rarely comes up in conversation. It's something we discussed a lot a few years ago but now it seems to be accepted, plus they have other male role models and I have a DH now so our family feels complete as it is.

They have said to me that they're not interested in contacting my ex, if they wanted to I would support it but in practical terms we'd struggle to find a starting point. I have a really good relationship with them and I don't get any sense that they blame me for his absence though.

if they come back shouitng and kicking doors because they think it is funny then he is not a good role model and contact has to change.

ambrosia petal thanks, your story is inspiring that kids with no dad about are doing fine and you have found a solution by having other male role models.

yes cestlavie, what you say makes sense. Its just so hard as there are positive elements of their dad that I do see. I guess as you and SSD and SCSG suggest though by giving them access via a contact centre this balances the maintaining the contact vs protecting them.

abusers dont abuse 24/7.
i imagine you also saw and experinced positive elements - you had the dc with him - before you called it a day.

having positive elements doesnt make up for the bad.
but yes contact centre will lessen therisk of the bad coming out

you need ot amek it clear to dc what is good behaviour what isnt - for long time after leaving my ex my dd would hit her sister then say she could not help it. that she could not control herself - guess where she got that from!

yes i have always explained to dc what not ok e.g daddy throwing phone so criticised action vs him

recently having discussed this with child pysch was enlightening though as she said the kids are too young to understand this and they would be confused by what they see and that no explaling would help.

i have always been thinking alomg the line of maintaining but minimsing contact but maybe this is not enough.........so hard, its sounds awful but wish he would drop dead at times and then i could just tell dc the god bits....