How much access?

[mrscolour]

Hi
I saw a solicitor today and he told me that my ex would be entitled to every other weekend with the kids and half of the holidays. This wasn't what I wanted to hear. I really feel that as my kids are young to be staying over with him (4 and a half and 22 months) and that 1 day every weekend would be enough and then a bit extra in the holidays. He hasn't really been that involved in their lives until now and I've done all the hard stuff. Plus me and the kids are living at my mum and dads at the mo and I don't really want them staying away from me until we are settled in our own place. i'm hoping we might be able to come to an agreement at mediation.

I was just wondering how much contact other people's exes have and does it work for you?

Every other weekend and a night in the week plus half the school holidays is pretty standard. You might have to get used to the idea. As they goet older you might even welcome the occasional break!

Assuming he is a reasonable parent you wont really have grounds for denying him this sort of access

My ex has less than this but it is his choice as he lives a long way away

The children have the right to a relationship with both parents. If you were living together they would see much more of their dad than every other weekend and half the holidays. So this is the compromise you make if separated to ensure the children do not miss out any more than they need. children are adaptable and I'm sure they will soon get use to this routine and it will have many benefits both for you and them. You should encourage the fathers envolvement as research shows children fare better emotionally, behaviourally, academically and socially where they have a significant relationship with both fathers (custody minefield).

your kids are roughly the same age as mine were when ex and i separated (just 4 and 18 months). i had to agree to shared parenting 50/50 at the time as my only way out. i am now going through the courts to try to get residence and it is a massive battle. i want him to have every other weekend, one night in the week and half holidays; he wants them 50% of the time....

HOWEVER my HV has written a statement on my behalf which will be used as evidence in court saying that ex should have visiting contact only because, at this age, my kids are too young to be spending any overnights away from their mother on a regular basis. (they are now 4.5yrs and 2yrs 1 month). i did not ask her to write that. that is her own professional opinion.

so... if you are prepared for a monumental battle, tell your solicitor that you want him to have less access than that, speak to your HV, pull all the stops out. if your solicitor isn't receptive, find another one...

ah latemates - we meet again...

I think you'd have a hard job to convince the courts that the kids aren't entitled to spend a full weekend with their Dad every fortnight...I mean it's not exactly a lot of time with him...

I'm stunned that a health visitor would feel she was qualified to judge how young is too young to spend overnights with a parent. Certainly it flies in the face of Cafcass's own guidelines about contact. You might wish to post in legal? I would hate to think you were embarking on a massive fight and involving your children in this kind of damaging process when really what you need is mediation, support, counselling and a teeny reality check. Both parents are important to children and warring parents are very damaging IMO. (Obviously assuming no real concerns about their safety etc.)

you know its odd cos i am begging my ex to see more of his children and he refuses.
He sees our kids one weekend in 6 till now and has just asked to extend it to one weekend in 12. cheeky bastard.
our 16 month old doesnt even recognise him.
its seems the more contact you want them to have the more they resist and the less you offer them the more they want it!!!

no overnight s simply because kids too young to stay overnight regularly? that's nuts. assuming dad is equal parent and equally capable there is no reason why they should not stay over with him regularly.

certainly from 3 say - my friend said from 3 as she felt dd coud then express any fears and concerns.

but children can easily get used to regular routines from young age. all things being equal no welfare issues etc - then good to start with overnights from as soon as poss .

That's terrible chunky bum... Your poor children..... Wish I could offer advice on how to kick him up the bum to reengage with them but I'm not at a loss. I'm use to fathers who are trying to get contact increased or trying to maintain it than those who can't be bothered to spend time with their kids

Cestlavielife... Your post made me giggle as the vision I got was mum being told by social worker that at such a young age the children are too young to stay overnight with her. Which is really the same thing....
Mrscolour.... What makes you think you are more qualified to look after the children overnight than their father? And how would yup feel if someone tried to tell you the children were too young to be cared for by a single mum?

mine were 5.5y and 2.2y when ex left.
from the week after he moved out (the first week he was waiting for beds to be delivered, so they just went for the day) they have stayed with him every Tue evening and for 1 night/day every weekend.
he was hardly ever home in the week, he barely knew their routines, the 2yo was non-verbal and ex understood v little of what he wanted due to not spending a significant amount of time with him.
It was horrendous for me, I didn't want them to go, 2yo didn't want to go and clung to me. Horrendous.
BUT - he is their dad, apart from being a fuckwit and leaving me () he is generally a good man who I knew would look after them to the best of his ability. If at all possible (and it was) they can only benefit from a decent relationship with him.
So despite my pain I totally facilitated them going to him.

It is hard, no one is saying it isn't. But he is their dad and they deserve a relationship with him.

Well there are some men I wouldn't trust to look after a goldfish Having said that your kids are entitled to, and deserve, to have a good relationship with their father so unless you have some reason to believe that being with him will endanger their lives then you need to facilitate that. Yes, it'll be difficult but you have to do it for their sake and eventually you'll probably end up looking forward to the break.

OP why did you go to see a solicitor? Was it to establish what court may grant should it come to it or was it because your ex is taking you to court over contact?

If the former then don't feel you have to go to court. You and your ex will hopefully be able to come to an agreement without the court being involved. Mediation, if you can both be reasonable, is really the best way forward for you all.

Contact doesn't have to instantly be every other weekend and half the holidays. You can build up to it. But yes you can expect your ex to be given that should it go to court. Bear in mind of you start with 1 day every weekend it may be considered the norm and you could have issues then going to every other weekend. It might be better to consider a weekday as every week and then contact alternative weekends. It doesn't matter so much when they are not at school, but as soon as they are you will find weekends precious too.

What kind of involvement does he currently have? Has he been a hands on dad? Do you have any genuine concerns as to their welfare when with dad (or is it simply that you don't like the idea of it?). You might feel you have done all the hard work up till now, but things have changed now and your roles have changed. It's time to let him do some of that hard work too, and to be more involved with his dc. It is hard I know, but you have to accept that things have changed and so has his role as a parent. Many fathers do decide they want to be more involved after separation/divorce and that traditional roles aren't relevant any more.

What do you think would be reasonable to start off with and to move too? Your ex may be more willing to compromise if he can see that you are looking to increase contact in 6 months then 12 months time. Plus it will (hopefully) be easier for you and the dc to buld up gradually.
So perhaps suggest that he have a midweek now and every other weekend have 1 overnight at the weekend (say saturday overnight). Then make it friday and saturday overnight in 6 months time (your youngest will be 2.5 by then). And then in a further 6 months look to making it friday, sat, sun overnight with your ex dropping the oldest at school on monday morning.
That's assuming your ex even wants that much contact. Some do, some don't.

Your dc are entitled to a relationship with their dad and unfortunately your feelings on it shouldn't interfer with it. The first time they are away will be horrible for you. They will be fine and, in time, so will you. It does get easier in time. Bug hugs in the meantime.

I've just gone from having the children every weekend to alternative weekends, this after 8 years, due to the ExP requesting the change through the court. It's hard for me to give you my opinion on access of every other weekend as my children are currently very distressed at trying to get their heads around only seeing me every other week.

But my initial impression is that you can't be a very effective parent only seeing your children every other weekend. I can understand the concerns that "He hasn't really been that involved in their lives until now and I've done all the hard stuff" means that after a while your ExP isn't going to make a very effective parent. However, I think you need to give your children every chance to have form a strong child-parent bond with both of you.

white - do you get NO contact at all then in between the alternate weekends?

Yeap the kids have gone from seeing me every weekend to every other weekend, I've asked the ExP for even a half hour over the weekend they're with her. She's told me and the kids that it's breaking a court order if they spend time with me except on every other weekend, I've asked my solicitor to send her a letter explaining that the court has asked me to allow her to have the children on the weekend, and no order has yet been made on access. However, as you can imagine the kids are emotionally all over the place with one parent saying that it's illegal to spend time with their other parent even if they are missing them. URRRGH, however the kids have texted me saying they miss me so I simply walk and have a chat with them a little way to school in the morning. Again they get told by their mother that I shouldn't be meeting with them as it's agains the law and breaking the court order, blah blah blah ... you get the picture! URRRRGH

I will never be able to understand how it could be against the law to spend time with your own children.

it's not against the law. She is saying that it is, that doesn't mean it is.
ALso the court order specifies the minimum time spent with the NRP. Any amount of time over and above that can be agreed

I'm coming at this from the fathers side. My XP also didn't want me to have alternate w/e with my DD 2 staying overnight. But she, like the OP, didn't like what the solicitors ( at least 4 ) were telling her. E.g. Mr Gster's request for access, alternate w/e , an afternoon every week and 50:50 holidays was perfectly reasonable.

On that front I think you have two choices. Accept his proposal, be supportive, positive, and calmly explain any concerns you have about his parenting ability. Suggest that the over nights are phased in over a reasonable period. Re-enforce that it's about what's best for your kids not either of you, and absolutely avoid any point scoring....

Or you could find an aggressive, unscrupulous solicitor who says what you want to hear and who's more interested in your money ( lots of it ) than you or the child who'll make things far far worse by taking the whole thing to court. You'll end up with an inflexible contact agreement and you'll probably both hate each other until you drop.

It doesn't take a great deal of internet searching for him to find out that the alternate w/e etc is pretty standard. A solicitor would tell him the same. So assuming your XP isn't a dum-dum he probably knows the score on that front and is unlikely to back down. I certainly didn't as I felt I was fighting for my daughter.

Latemates - are you a man/father? I think it is a valid and relevant question to ask of you.

I'm use to fathers who are trying to get contact increased.

Are you indeed!

What brought you to Mumsnet?

I am a woman, actually.
Yes I do know many who are desperatly trying to get contact increased for their childrens sake
I know the implact reduced or restricted contact have on the prawns (sorry children).

I'm on mums net for many reasons not least for information, discussion and sounding boards

Why are you on mums net? are you a man or woman?

My ExH has the children (4 of them, aged between 15 months and 8) every friday and Saturday night, home Sunday at 2pm, and for dinner on Mondays and Wednesdays. He is a very good father and because of the amount of contact is very up to date with their lives and everything that happens in their little worlds. The children are always very excited to see him. I also then get time off from the 5 days pretty much straight to see friends, sleep etc before it all starts again.

He left when I was 37 weeks pregnant with the fourth; he had her overnight for the first time at 9 months, she was OK to have a bottle for a few feeds by then, although she is still BF now. She has been doing the same as the others for quite a while now.

I am on Mumsnet for info/chat/friendship/debate/supporting others/support for me/learning.

I am a woman and a mother.

The reason I asked is because I have noticed a pattern to your posts which appear to me to be automatically pro-Father's rights.

You said "Mrscolour.... What makes you think you are more qualified to look after the children overnight than their father?"

Well it looks like mrscolour is very much the primary carer "He hasn't really been that involved in their lives until now."

So we're not talking about a committed/involved/hand's on/helpful Father here are we?

mrscolour - it doesn't sound to me as if you are treating your DC as "prawns" - but that you are concerned for them having a settled home life with you and with gently/gradually introduced contact with your ex.

I am pro fathers rights openly as children need and deserve a relationship with both parents (unless their is a serious risk in which case contact may not be possible or may need to be supervised) and so often children are not getting this opportunity through stupid court system.

If he hasn't be involved then the children have already missed out enough. I took it that he has been involved but not in all day to day care. Many men work and have other reponsibilities which prior to seperation limit their time (not always through choice) with the children. But prior to seperation the father or in some case mother would have seen childen every day after seperation their is a reduction which will effect the children.
If you always put the children first then contact should not be prevented. If he is a rubbish father the children will see this but a rubbish (but not dangerous) father is better than no father.
There is planty of research on these subjects for those wanting it.

MAybe he hasn't been involved enough in the past but if he is willing and wanting to then it may be a huge benifit both to mum and the children

Sorry should have said above all i am pro childrens rights over and above mums or fathers rights.