Some female opinion / separation and money

[Gster]

Ok, I hope I'm not breaking any gender rules here.

I really need a female perspective.

I've recently split from the mum of my two year old DD. It's amicable at the moment, if tense, and there are two obvious issues to resolve.

Money and access.Both of which we're hoping to sort between us.

I currently give my ex £600 pm which is about £200 more than the CPS estimate, on top of that I pay for shoes, family meals out, half of b'day parties and holidays etc, etc. Reading about some feckless fathers on here giving £5 a week makes me think I'm doing the right thing.

My ex is pretty well off, owns her own house with no mortgage, substantial savings, she has a job that pays £100's an hour and works around 4-6 hours a week and spends the rest looking after our DD. Not all fun and games of course, but plenty of quality time. Not that she's happy with her lot.

Now that we've split I see less of my daughter, which is breaking my heart. And I'm looking at buying a house as i rent currently and want to make a second home for my DD. Life is going to get expensive.

On the one hand I want to support my ex as much as i can, but I now also need to work at making a home for me and my DD. I don't want to live in a tent just to hand all my spare earnings over to the ex. Nursery fees are looming and I just can't see how I can keep up all the payments. They'll go down if anything. Causing conflict I fear.

And how much I see my DD ? Everyday would be nice, but not possible. My ex thinks me turning up Sat afternoon and leaving Sunday afternoon is ideal. It isn't to me. I'd like to have DD at mine every weekend as she has lots of quality time in the week with her. But in the interests of compromise I was going to suggest every other weekend at mine and take DD out every other Sunday from mums. Does that sound fair ?

Would appreciate any views or the voice of experience on this.....

Hi

xh left a year ago and from the word go we did every wednesday night and every other weekend friday 6pm until sunday 7pm. Any extra nights holidays here and there on top.

From reading on here that is considered the minimum starting point and lots of people want /have a 50:50 split on access.

I am grateful there has been no dissent from either us or the dc and it works really well. I am amazed your xw wants access at her house (no offence !)

As you say 600 is very generous especially with the additional mortgage free etc. Hope fully your xw will be supportive of a more long term environment with your dd and realise this costs !

Good Luck

hariboegg

No we didn't marry. In fact we never lived together technically, although we'd generally spend 4-6 nights together, split between my place or hers. The two places being an hour apart.

I've suggested DD stay every other weekend at mine, and that I see her a day on the weekends she's not at mine, as well as a week day evening if XP wants to go out. + holidays

Problem is she's started seeing someone else, and me being at hers is quite painful.

I'm also worried at how my DD who's two will react to spending weekends away from mum.

My ex pays maintainance at the level set by the CSA based on his earnings. He 'babysits' the children on a Wednesday night when he finishes work and has them on a Sunday from 10 - 2/3pm.

I think what you suggest is fine re access, although I would be reticent to give up a day on my weekend with the children if that were the case but you can but ask.

I am pretty sure your DD will be fine once she realises what the routine is though you may of course have a transitional period.

Can I just ask why 'looming nursery fees' are presenting a problem? If your ex only works 4-6 hours a week, surely nursery fees would not be crippling? Is the expectation that you will pay for these in addition to what you pay already?

I'm a single mum who receives NOTHING from her DD's father so what you give sounds very generous to me, particularly the contributions to extras like holidays, clothes, etc.

Have you mentioned increased access to your ex? Is she anti? Or are you anticipating that she might be?

Have you broached the subject of buying a house and the possibility of creating a second home for your DD? I just wonder why you're anticipating problems with this.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with letting a two year old stay with her dad on alternate weekends, along with other agreed, regular days.

You sound like a great dad to me, actually, and the fact that you've maintained a reasonable relationship up to this point is quite positive. It does sound as though you could come to a suitable arrangement if you both communicate honestly about your expectations.

I think you need to be honest with your ex about the level of financial support you can continue to provide. Give her fair warning and time to adjust her spending and lifestyle if necessary.

Explain you intend to buy your own place and make a home so that dd can visit ther and stay overnight too in time. I would tell her too that it's time for you and dd to soend your time away from her house, especially as she now has a new relationship. Also sell her on teh child free evening/s she'll get to spend with her new partner when dd is with you...

I think if you offer a nit more than the CSA calculation then she can either accept that (and work more hours or cut back on extras like holidays if she finds herself struggling), or she can refuse and go to the CSA and get the lower amount.

The CSA calculation is meant to keep the child in the lifestyle they could of expected had you stayed together. So it should cover most every day expenses and your ex does have the option to work more hours. You can of course pay extra on top if you agree it, but you don't have to (unloess you get a variation for school fees or similar)

Perhaps you could tell your ex that you may still contribute to birthday parties etc if asked, but you can't guarantee to do so on the same level as before. And that, as in most cases, when buying a house everyone has to tighten their belt. Suggest she need sto come to you with requests for extras and not to assume you will be able to meet them all any more.

I too can't see why childcare is worrying you. Are you expected to foot teh bill for this? It's her time with dd so it's her responsibilty to pay for it from her income and/or from the money you give her.
Given the few hours your ex works she can't spend that much time in child care can she?
Perhaps a child minder where you pay per hour, rather than a nursery where you pay for a day rather might be an alternative if that is the issue..?

Re the weekends I think you have to consider the fact that, although she may have plenty of week day time with her (which she may lose some of f she has to work more hours to bring in extra income) she still should have some weekend time. Many activities hold special things on teh weekend. And family members who may want to visit or be visited culd be limited to the weekend. As could friends she may want to visit with dd.

Is there any way you can juggle some time at work and perhaps work a weekend day every other week in order to have half a week day off when you could have dd instead of using childcare? Would your ex be open to that?

Woollyideas.... I think the nursery fees are going to throw up a problem because as far as I can work out she expects me to pay them on top of what I contribute now. Which I simply can't afford to do. She gives the impression that I could even now be contributing more.And just generally I think money conversations are going to be difficult just by their nature.

A comment I've heard a few times now from XP is that as she looks after DD in the week ( her choice to scale down work so as not to miss DD's early years ) she's doing me a favour as the alternative is full time nursery and the costs of that. There is some truth in that of course, but I think the picture is wider than it purely being a favour for me.

As for the access. We talked late into the night about it. I started off suggesting that I rearrange work, and have DD every other W/E Saturday am to Monday am, see her one day on the W/E I don't have her, and house / baby sit whenever the XP wants to go out in the week.

XP didn't like this too much . Her argument is that

(a) having DD two nights ( she kept saying three ) at mine is a longer period than I have up till now spent with her at the weekends ( true but I won't see her so much in the week ) .

( b ) that as it will in a year change to one night if DD needs to be back for Sunday night due to school / nursery that change from two nights to one will be upsetting to DD, and

( c ) that I'm being selfish as it's not in DD's interests to be away from her main home every other w/e. She really didn't like me saying that DD would have two homes.

We kind of ended up agreeing that any arrangement would need to be flexible. I could do alternate weekends at mine ( one night ) , see her at XP's on other weekends and try and get a week day off work early to pick up DD from nursery put her to bed etc.

Although she's now not happy about me transporting DD around in a sports car.

Money issues are never easy. But it's better to be honest with her then leave her thinking you're going to pay nursery when you won't be.
Otherwise you leave yourself open to her taking it as read you have agreed and being angry that you didn't say something sooner as she's now made plans.

I still think you should tell her clearly now that you can not continue with what you are paying currently. Giver her a figure above the CSA calculation and advise her that if you can't agree in that she will need to go to the CSA and you will happily comply with them.

There's no reason at all you can't take your dd to nursery and to school on a monday when that starts. Your ex is denying you involvement with school if she doesn't allow this. She's basically saying she's more important as a parent then you are. I'm sure she thinks what she is saying is best for your dd is (in her head), but I think basically it comes down to her believing she is the more important parent.

If you went to court you'd likely be awared every other weekend fri to monday and half the holidays. But you'll also piss her off and cause bigg issues going that route which will take far longer to overcome.

I think you need to be persuading her to teh shared parenting way of thinking (which doesn't mean equal time, but it means both parents are equally important)
www.spig.clara.net/
Do you think she'd go to mediation to try and resolve things?

I would also suggest mediation - the ex seems to worry about the child adjusting but it's never usually a problem for the child (more for the adult).

Re: finances, I think you need to have a 'costs up' approach - what are the costs for the child, there will be nursery costs so do include these and of course consider child benefit as additional income. I believe living costs for each parent should be neutral since both parents want to provide a home for their child.

Your child will go through lots of changes in the next few years - schooling etc so you and your ex need to find a way to communciate as the routine will change. My feeling is that every other weekend plus a day or 2 in the week is fair. A free weekend for each parent is probadly sensible going forward as that allows each parent to plan. As you live an hour away it's not ideal for schooling so that maybe something you can think about - but discuss with your ex (as you don't want to move closer to find that she then moves!!)

I do recommend mediation but also do not be afraid of court - sadly some mums do gate keep access to their children and courts are the only place where that can be resolved. keep records of when you currently see your child. The children's best interests are served by seeing both parents who are co-operating, the routine then follows from that.

Thanks for all the comments. Very much appreciated.

Update :

well there seems to be a tentative agreement. I get DD for two nights every other w/e ( probably have to change to 1 night when school starts ). I also take an afternoon off work every week. Holidays split.

The money I think I've come to a solution in my thoughts. Pay the CSA calculation plus a bit more, put £50 a month in a bank account for DD when she's 18 and split all the other costs 50:50.

As for the gate keeping. Yes that is a worry.

As for mediation. I've mentioned it. I know she's been to see a family solicitor ( but told me she hasn't ) . Fair enough I guess if she wants to see what the lay of the land is.

Anyway... next hurdle is to find out how best to make my 2 year old feel happy about staying with me.

thanks again.

There is no reason for the alternate weekends to go down to 1 overnight when she starts school. Why would you think that should be the case?
Don't presume that is correct or accept it if she tries to insist on it!

Her seeing the sol is good if it makes her realise she is on to a good thing money wise and that she would see a lot less of dd if she/you took it to court.

Bear in mind her offer is designed to be reasonable without rocking the boat enough to have you consider court as an option.

gillybean you are the voice of reason.

... and yes. Funnily enough since she's seen the Solicitor she's actually become vocal about how supportive I am.

I happily give her far more than the CSA would calculate reasoning that as a couple I was around her place a lot. I'm tempted to point her towards mumsnet ( if she's not here already. Hello B ! ) to see how many feckless pathetic dads there are who give virtually nothing to their ex's.

I've always stayed clear of the fridge though having had my hand bitten off about how little the money buys. But suddenly she's making an effort to buy things that I'll eat / drink.

sigh.

Mediation to sit down and go through the finances together so your wife can see where the money goes, propose alternatives and hopefully come to a compromise is a good idea.

There needs to be a degree of flexibility about contact arrangements because they tend to change as children reach different stages and parents meet new partners, change jobs or move house. With very young children frequent short spells of contact tend to work well whereas many parents find that by the time the children start school longer less frequent periods with fewer changeovers is a more settled arrangement. If it is practical perhaps overnight contact 2 or 3 separate over nights a week would better than two nights every weekend until your daughter has readjusted to the family separating. I wouldn't worry about it too much just now but then contact can gradually be built up to longer and less frequent say over every other weekend Thur or Friday pm after school returning to school on Monday or Tuesday am or if it is more practical Sunday to your ex partner.

Good luck with the negotiations.

Firstly, there is no reason why you shouldn't have 50/50 access to your child. If that is what is best for the child.

If your DD is used to spending a lot more time with mum than with you (not since the split but since she was born) it is generally considered that this should be the case after the split. Which can be hard for the non-resident parent but it's the child who matters most.

If 50/50 care isn't right in your circumstance i think a bare minimum should be Wednesday night and every other weekend. Your ex would need to have very valid reasons for not allowing this.

As others have said mediation would be very useful here.

Your ex doesnt need £600 a month to pay for half of the costs of a child. You are being very genourous and i commend you for that but it is your child you need to support, not your ex.

This seems agreeable now but I predict trouble when you meet a new partner. Your DD will always come first and you can't imagine anyone coming close at this stage but when you fall in love again (possibly even having another baby) this agreement will come un-stuck.

Also, it is ridiculous to put yourself in hardship so that your ex can have your money and it wont be appealing for DD to visit you in your tiny flat when all the good stuff is at mum's house...

Definitely go for mediation.

Good luck, your DD is lucky - you're a good egg. (Just don't be a daft egg!)

I wouldn't focus too much on what feckless dads do or don't do... Don't compare yourself to the lowest common denominator.

Also, if your ex was on here, believe me she would ave been told by now that she should be being more reasonable

It sounds like she has knocked your confidence in terms of how your DD will feel about spending time with you. My DD will still say i am her favourite parent but when it comes to weekend with daddy she can't wait to see him!(we spilt when she was a year old and she is now 5) I would say I'm the cuddle and care parent and he's the big kid - takes her swimming, camping, treehouse building... all the stuff I don't have energy for. You and your ex will each have important things to share with your DD and you should never feel that your input is any less important than hers. Little girls love time with daddy. But not if daddy's so skint from keeping mummy that she can't do anything