What's worst for a little boy- no daddy or nasty daddy?

[maledetta]

I was discussing this with a friend yesterday. Both of our sons' fathers are Not Good.

Her DS' father sees his son intermittently (he was around yesterday after 10 months of promising to turn up and never arriving), screams abuse at her on a regular basis, and, when he does turn up to see his son, doesn't seem to care for him all that much (was going to refuse to take car seat or child's bag with him on their day out, but his friend stepped in). Her DS, needless to say, adores his daddy.

My DS' father has shown very little interest in seeing his son since he was 4 weeks old(he is one now).Initially he did text a couple of times asking to see him- once, after 2 months of no contact, asking if he could bring his other 2 sons, DS' half brothers round to see us that afternoon. I replied both times that he couldn't come to see DS as and when he feels like it- we had to discuss making a consistent arrangement for him to see DS- to which I got no sensible answer.

However, since DS' father has met a new woman (a friend and employer's wife, whom he ran off with), who has 2 more small DS, he has made no further attempts to get in touch- yet seems to find it acceptable to turn up to local gatherings, showing what a caring "father" he is to his new GF's DSs, and his own older two, while ignoring our DS.(There is lots and lots of backstory to all this, but I couldn't type it all- my fingers would fall off!)

I realise I have ranted a little here-sorry.
But what we would like some feedback on is: what is better (or least bad)- to have an erratic, abusive and uncaring father, who pops up occasionally only to let you down, or one who is entirely absent? A counsellor once told me that it's better for a child to see his father, and realise he's fallible, rather than put an idealised version of him on a pedestal. Yet I read somewhere else that visits to the father if they are irregular, especially if the father is emotionally detached, can be damaging to a child.

Does anybody have their experiences to share? Or can anyone recommend any studies or books on the subject?

Please realise, also, that unfortunately, for me anyway, the choice of whether my DS sees his father or not is not mine to make - it's his fatner's. My only choice is whether to stop tearing myself apart about it.

Yes there is research (US justice system) to suggest the biggest positive impact an absent parent has on a child's growing up when all other factors is matched is adequate financial support.

In abusive relationships there is evidence that continued contact has a negative affect.

These have not made it through to UK justice system.

I think no Daddy is better,however hard that is.A really nasty Dad is almost impossible to get over.

I don't want my son constantly battling for someone love and affection when in reality they don't give a shit.

And thank you PIRATEROSE, i just think its so sad that's it seems an ever increasing story.

A saying my Mam always had was "One good parent is better than two bad ones that make each other unhappy" and she was absolutely right!

I was the child who had to witness a physically and emotionally abusive relationship btw my parents and my father was also abusive towards me and my brother and it does affect you particularly when you have your own children because you realise just how wrong the things you have seen when you were growing up were.

I'm now a single parent to a 7.5yo who has never met his father (his fathers choice not mine) and I can honestly say ds is better off having no contact with his father than having a father that treats him like I was treated by mine.

I've read research that says Bad Daddy is better than No Daddy.

I say let's all crap on the research and follow your gut. I'd choose No Daddy over Bad Daddy any day.

Can you link to that research, Speedy? I'm genuinely interested.

Not much I can do about contact, as ex has quite a lot of contact through a court order. And I think he treats DD(3) okay in some ways - he buys her things and I don't think would hit her or leave her to cry. Too far to the opposite extreme, if anything - he has the ability to intimidate her into stopping crying, and he gives her entire packs of cakes and brownies etc. I worry that his priority is to have his emotional needs met by her. Hard to explain, but he likes perform in front of other people as Doting Daddy. Also, he has badmouthed me to her in the past - not sure if he's currently doing so.

There's nothing a court would accept as grounds to reduce contact, but I worry that DD is being trained to please someone who is immensely selfish, and I wish I knew if it is likely to cause her problems in future life.

I'd agree 'no daddy' too. There are many children who have lost fathers for all sorts of reasons, death in military service or via an accident for example. With family and friends' support the vast majority grow up to lead happy adult lives.
From what I gather the current "Children's" Act seems to bend too far in the father's rights direction rather than the right of the child to grow up happy. Strained relationships via contact centres seem entirely the wrong direction in which to proceed.

No daddy if he is nasty to the child and not just you behind closed doors
It really can be damaging

I think it is important for a child to know who their bio dad is, other than that I would minimise contact if they were reluctant to take a father role. Things can change as time goes on but hopefully a great mother in their lives will minimise any damage to a child.

Ah, but Adamchick, what if they wanted to take a role but were known to be abusive and violent, never held down a job etc.?

However, having said the above, I can see that there will be difficulties if some sort of relationship between father and post toddler child has been established before a breakup occurred...

Thanks everybody for your replies. It's given me a lot of food for thought, and reassured me that No Daddy is perhaps not the worst thing that can happen to a child.

FWIW, I had a very inspiring chat with someone the other day. I met a friend of a friend, who I don't know very well, for a business meeting. She is awesomely sorted and I very much admire her. I never previously knew that she, and her 3 brothers, had been brought up by their mum on their own- dad just walked away from all of them. She is happily married with 3 kids, and says that her brothers are all happy, stable individuals and good fathers.So that's cheering!

Definitely worse to have a nasty dad - better to have no dad at all. "You wouldn't necessarily know, though, until later, when they grew up into damaged individuals?" - that sums up my kids. I pushed for contact and so wish I hadn't.

I read today that there are plans to repeal the law that was introduced a few years ago requiring the father to be specified on the birth certificate.

Whether it will mean that replacements for existing certificates that currently specify the fathers name will be obtainable is yet to be seen.