what do you do about overnight stays if you cosleep?

[racetobed]

some advice from any of you with very little ones, with sporadic dad contact, if you please :)

dd is 20 mths, we cosleep which suits us both. she sees her dad one weekend a month but as he's never lived with us, she's never spent the night with him.

he's putting major pressure on me for overnights, but as she doesn't seem to remember him very well in between visits (doesn't say dada yet) and as we're cosleeping, i've said not for a while yet (at least until she's talking more, so can express herself)

anyone any thoughts on this? would you do the same? or differnet?

dad is a good guy, not v hands on tho (crap at changing nappies, has never looked after her when she's poorly, etc)

"dd is 20 mths, we cosleep which suits us both. she sees her dad one weekend a month but as he's never lived with us, she's never spent the night with him.

he's putting major pressure on me for overnights"

I don't know the backstory but you sound quite resentful of the man you made a child with.

"as she doesn't seem to remember him very well in between visits (doesn't say dada yet)"

What a horrible think to say. He is her father too and has a right to have 50/50 as a starting point (unless he's just some kind of sperm donor). I think you need to re-think your view on this.

My apologies. I realise I will be flamed, potentially. I did not answer your question. I just find it quite amazing (as the ex partner of a non-resident dad) how some people seem to harbour this feeling that the father does not have the right to see their child.

My ex would have seen his little girl much more often than once a week, given the chance, but was berrated for not seeing her often enough whilst being prevented from seeing her more frequently.

Sorry if I am bringing another argument into this but felt I should explain my stance.

I think the co-sleeping thing is less than idea as her two parents are separated. Can you wean her into her own bed, so that it's easier for your ex to have her over night?

hairy, why is it a horrible thing to say? i'm stating a fact.
in fact, i try to help her remember him, by talking about him and showing her his photo.

he's a thoroughly decent man actually, but not very hands on becuase of the distance between us. where do you think i sound resentful?

Can she co-sleep with him when she stays over?

DS2 started staying over at ex-H's when he was 18mo and co-slept with him until recently. He did have a relationship with his father already, but your daughter needs to build that and IMO 20m is not too young.

Its a big thing doing the overnighters, but I do think you need to let it happen.

and re. the talking, you need to give him a chance to learn to interpret what she says without words. You cant be there for her all the time, and children with no speech do very well with non-resident parents so there is no reason why she would be any different. Not saying Dada is not an indication that she has no bond with him.

Well, it kind of implies that he is lesser than you just because she hasn't yet expressed it verbally?

It sounds like you don't believe he has the right to 50/50 parenting. that's where I pick up the resentment.

You say 'it works for us both'. It does not work for her father.

That's definitely an overreaction, hairy.

Her father is miles away, and sees her monthly - that's a heck of a long time to a small child. The OP, meanwhile, does everything in that time.

OP: my DD and I co-slept until she was almost 4. But she seemed to be able to accept different rules at different houses. (Her father hasn't seen her for almost a year, by his choice, but that's another matter). I would let him have her overnight. It will be good for them to build that sort of relationship. After all, she can always get into bed with him if she needs to, can't she? Maybe then he'll learn about nappies and 5am get-ups and all the normal stuff of baby and toddlerhood.

As a nanny children I look after do different things from what they do with their parents ie nap in cots instead of being cuddled to sleep etc.

I would say your child will learn how to sleep when she is there ie in a cot/bed and remain co-sleeping with you.

mousie I don't think an over-reaction, but I do think a particular viewpoint, perhaps not related to what the poster is actually asking, so I have apologised for that.

The OP says nothing about 'miles away', so not sure why you have said that?

hairy, of course i'm going to do what 'works for us both' because i do 90% of the parenting! and it's pretty exhausting!

her dad does not want 50% of the parenting; he wants one weekend a month. which is fine, i accept that, but you can't expect me to accommodate him and nor can you expect my child to not find it a bit weird to have him do everything for two days, then leave for a month.

but i'm glad to hear people think that she'll be alright cosleeping with him, it's very reassuring.

DS co-sleeps and is 2, he doesn't go to his dad overnight, but that's for other reasons. I don't think it's necessary to wean her off co-sleeping in order to do overnight visits, because I don't think it has to be an all or nothing thing - even though DS is used to co-sleeping I have been able to go out for the evening, leave him with a babysitter, and come home and sleep on the sofabed without him, he's been fine. He did stay overnight at my mum's recently for the first time and although he was unsettled, he was okay. Children pick up very quickly that things are different with different adults and seem to be able to switch between two situations fairly easily, in most cases. Once she gets used to things she could sleep in a cot or bed at his house and co-sleep at yours.

How well do you get on with her Dad? Could you start off e.g. he puts her to bed one night at yours while you go out, or you and she stay over at his house for a night, as a first step. Then second step is for him to have her but you stay at home and sober as a standby so that he can bring her back if she's really unsettled. You should talk to her about it and explain what's going to happen, even if you don't think she understands - she will understand more than you think. I had to put DS in a creche at 16 months (complete disaster) and I told him he was going to play with some nice ladies and mummy wouldn't be there, but I would come back very soon. When we got to the children's centre he kept pointing at all the ladies he saw who he didn't know.

Some other ideas to smooth the transition would be to build up a bedtime routine with her even if you still feed to sleep, which he could follow. Or maybe he could co-sleep with her too, if he's open to that?

In my view to be honest, I think 20 months is quite old for the co-sleeping arguement, if we were talking about a small baby I may understand more. Obviously at some point she will stay overnight with him, so when would you like for that to be? You say not until she can express herself, to have a view and express herself about staying with him? That would not be for a few years. I wouldn't have thought that her not saying Dada does not mean she doesn't remember him between visits.
I would have thought that the legal position on this may be that she should have slightly more frequent regular contact before overnights. This may just be every other weekend regularly. In my personal experience the court ordered overnights to start after 1 year of 1 day every weekend, the girls were then 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 when overnights started. Although I have to say I am still not convinced that they were old enough, although I think it is fairly common practice around that age, there are a number of other issues, and he is twat also, however after a year of staying it has built up to the girls at 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 clearly saying that they do not want to go.
So it depends really, sorry perhaps not much of an answer

"her dad does not want 50% of the parenting; he wants one weekend a month. which is fine, i accept that, but you can't expect me to accommodate him and nor can you expect my child to not find it a bit weird to have him do everything for two days, then leave for a month."

You didnt make that clear initially, OP.

Apologies for the "miles away" comment, I misread 'never lived with us' with 'never lived near us'. If he's local and only wants one weekend a month, he goes down in my estimation - what happened to what's best for the child?!

you're right, hairy, i didn't. i hope you understand that i have no intentions of impeding his access, i want the best for my child.

noteven, no, he's not local, if he were local he would see much much more of her, i'm sure. he loves her.

he lives miles away because of his job, which he is very happy in. i think it would be better for our child if he lived closer, but he doesn't, it's his choice, so we just have to make it work.

but it has to be at our child's pace, not his (or mine)

forgot to say thank you bertie and evolucy - sound advice, thank you :)

particularly like bertie's line "the second stage is for you to stay home and stay sober"... good idea, but that's the hard part! if he's having her overnight then i want cocktails and cava!

You earn those the second time!

evolucy, if you don't mind me asking, what do you do when the girls say they don't want to go? i would find that very hard :(

(no throat-jumping, pls hairy, i'm not saying all children don't want to stay with their fathers, I'm just curious about how you deal with those that say they don't want to)

Ive found mine dont want to go when they are attached to a certain toy or dvd - so they can take them with them. They also have their own duvets/clothes/toys etc that are different to my house at their Dads so they get excited each time they go.

They are 4 and 2 now and regularly say "I will miss you" or "I wanted you" or "I dont want to go". But he is their father, it is important - and every time they love it once they are there.

Actually, there have been other issues recently too, but when they have now become adamant that they don't want go, I have not made them go. They have said things about their time there and what they don't like about it. They have no special things there for them, e.g a nice bed for starters!
Smokinaces, when you say that your children have said they don't want to go, has this ever meant that they have had to be carried to the car crying?

The 4 year old did Saturday. He was adament he had no toys at his fathers, and screamed and cried until I strapped him in the car. Lo and behold once we got there he ran off, rung the bell, jumped on his bike and didnt give me a second glance!

But, like I said before they have a lot of special things at their Dads and he tries really hard to have toys/bedding/clothes etc there for them so its welcoming. So I know its not a true not wanting to go IYSWIM? Sadly it seems your ex doesnt

When I was 14 I stopped going to see my father btw. My mother respected that, because of other things. I think you need to be able to tell the difference between not wanting to leave due to trying to excert control, or because it is truely upsetting there. And there in lays the difficult part!! Luckily mine is the former, but sounds like yours evolucy is the latter

smokinaces, that is exactly it and I am not completely sure, but more than likely that it is upsetting for them.
Have your children ever said to anyone else that they don't want to go? My 3 year old told a teacher at school one Friday on the coach back from swimming that she did not want to go and stay with her Dad, and that neither did her sister who is 4. The teacher told me that they she had been asking about the weekend and what they would be doing.

Sorry to hijack your post OP but I guess it may still be interesting to know some of our experiences.

DS2 has limited speech, so hasnt said anything to nursery as far as I know.

I dont know about DS1 to be fair. He may have mentioned it at school, but they havent mentioned it to me so they cant be worried. I know he's said to his Grandma - but more to try and wangle staying with her instead of his Dad!

To be honest, I do think your situation is different to mine. I know 100% honestly my boys are happy and looked after when they get to their Dads. But you cant - and them telling another adult outside of their circle of trust is a big thing. Is there anyway of trying to work out exactly what they dislike and trying to rectify that with their dad, or do you not have an amicable relationship?

One thing I will say for my ex - he was a crap husband and a pants day to day father, but he is good at the absent weekend dad thing.

I started to read all the replies, but got a bit cross at the some of the rather heated responses to a plea for help.

My ds and I co sleep as I couldn't cope with the night feeds and staying awake when I ended up alone when he was 2 months old.

Ex lives about 200 miles away and is asking to change from every other weekend to every 3 weekends, so he can spend more time with his new gf's 3 children (they're not his children).

My ds and I lived with my parents for 2 years, and even while we were living with them, he wouldn't go to sleep for anyone but me, and if anyone else went to him in the evening or night, he went mad. He still does.

Ex suggested overnighters this time last year. I said no for all the above reasons as I was not, and still am not, willing to put my ds in a situation that I think (and I say think as I don't know, before you start!) will upset him hugely, and as I would be 200 miles away, I wouldn't be able to sort it out.

So try it and see you might say, but surely it's best to get the cosleeping and then o/n sorted at a pace that won't upset the child - after all, it's the child that's the most important person, right?

My ex is also crap at the everyday, but also crap at the weekend dad thing - yesterday he was lying on the floor 'playing' with ds, but actually on Facebook on his phone. No, not an isolated incident, but the norm.

Racetobed - it is hard. You must do what you feel is right for your child. Personally I will not put ds in a situation that I think will upset him so much, just so ex can have him o/n - it might also mean long-term that ds refuses to o/n with his dad if he has a horrid first experience.