Do your children know if absent father does not pay maintenance

[evolucy7]

I am interested on views on whether if you are in this position, do your children know that their father does not pay any maintenance to you. I don't really mean when he may be absent completely, but when he is still involved but makes no contibution or just the £5 per week payment throught the CSA.
Thanks

lol at TwoByIfSea at saying that his new lady wishes she had gone for someone else's husband!

Just to clarify I don't use the " can't afford this because of dad" line (it might have come across like that when i've read comment back.) When your budgeting you obviously include CSA going in as an income and if it doesn't you have less than expectedto live on for that month, so we may have to forgo a few treats or put them on hold. I'm a little more sensitive when explaining that daddy's money hasn't gone in yet so we have to wait until it does or until Mum can save up. I never use CSA not going in as a way to bad mouth his dad that would counteract the whole reason I chose to tell him his dad supports him which was to kind of let him know his dad provides for him even if he's not around so hasn't forgot about him.

I don't tell my children that my ex rarely pays any maintenance and even when she does it's only £5 a week.

If they ask me why I can't afford something then the answer is simply "Because we don't have enough money right now". I don't see any requirement to elaborate further. The full details of that are Not Their Problem. And it's not solely my ex's responsibility to pay for what our DCs need anyway.

Amusingly a few years ago when the residency situation was different and I was paying her over £350 a month in maintenance (I wasn't obliged to pay anything but it seemed right given the circumstances at the time) she did tell our DCs that I was giving her nothing. Bless her mad-as-conkers little heart...

Snorbs - if they asked you directly about whether she pays anything - would you?

Thanks for your thoughts, of course it is not solely an absent parent's responsibility to pay for what children need, but let's face it, that extra could be all that is needed for those extras, IYSWIM.
In my case my income has suddenly reduced by 25% from what it has been for 2 1/2 years since we separated. By the way I am not saying that that somehow gives reason for children to know. At this point in time my question is more theoretical as to what people do or do not tell their children.

Good question. I think what I said would depend on their age. I wouldn't lie, but I would be selective in how much truth I would divulge if you see what I mean.

Eg, if my youngest asked me tomorrow, my answer would probably be something like "She does pay something" or maybe "She pays for your pocket-money".

My boys are 7 and 8 and they know their dad does give me any money, he speaks to them about it alot more than I do. To the point in fact that at one point they actually told me I should give him money can you believe?? They go there every Saturday for the night and he hasnt given me any money for about 18 month(since he stopped working) and even then it wasnt very regular to be honest.

It doesnt really bother me so much now... I work part time have a mortgage etc but manage and its got to the point now that he know's I manage so is in no rush for a job - he has actually said this to me!! It does however bother me when like tonight he turns up to pick the boys up and says to the 8 year old who is wearing age 9/10 joggers, "why are you wearing pants that are so short for you again??" well I snapped at that point, I just couldnt help myself.

I wasnt really sure if it was worth going to CSA while he was on benefits and from what a few of you have said about your experience with them... dont think I'll waste my time.

LittleBeat...you've made a very good point, I think that my children's father knows that I will always do everything to ensure that they are adequately provided for, so he no longer has the responsibility to provide financially at all for their needs. The same as you have said, the action he has now taken job wise is something that he had said he would never do when we were together and when he had a family to provide for! Clearly he now sees that has does not have anyone to provide for

That is exactly it evolucy7!!

My ex has even used "your brother is loaded, get him to help you out!" and "how can you be skint?? you family are never ever going to see those kids go without so why are you bullsh*tting??" and at one point when I was seeing someone for a few short months he even said "get your new boyfriend to pay for what you need" (cant actally remember what I had said I could do with help for)

I have just had to pay for a new roof before christmas and did actually said "any help... £10 for bread and milk would be greatly appreciated" he said he would see what he could do... nothing came up so I didnt mention it again. And then like I say he has the cheek to mention my eldests joggers being short - grrrrrr

Oooh just feel I should maybe point out that I have no idea what my brother earns so have no idea at all how "loaded" he is. So I have absolutely no idea how my ex would know how much money he has... he has his own family to support anyhow.

The issue of a parent paying is a thorny one, I do think that, as others have said some NRP do not see things in quite the same way as when they were living in the family home. Clearly this is wrong, very wrong.

I also agree that it seems to fall to the resident parent to provide regardless of what the other parent is or is not doing. This does make things very hard for some people.

In no way am I trying to undermine the seriousness of the situation when someone deliberatly attempts to avoid supporting their children.

However even given the issues that a non-paying NRP causes I do not see a reason to tell teh dc. THe poster above who was talking to her dc about school did the right thing - because she was moping up the mess created by the father. She did not set out to tell her dc she simply tried to help them understand the situation that he had created, this is - IMO - very different to initiating the conversation.

WhyHavePets - what about when the child gets older (approaching teens/in their teens) and they ask your directly "does dad give you any money to help look after me". (or words to that effect) - where the child has initiated the conversation?

Personally I think as long as the child has not picked up on the issue of maintenance from the resident parent then if they're old enough to ask the question - they're old enough to be given a straight answer.

As I said above, if I was asked directly I would not lie. I asked "does Dad pay?" the answer would be "no he does not".

I would not get into whys and wherefores though the facts are enough unless there is a particular problem (as with the poster above with the school stunt).

"Frequently not paying does not make a bad father."

Er, yes it does actually. If you don't financially support your child, you're a deadbeat shit. You can tell yourself you love your DC, but love is cheap and bringing up a child isn't. I'm sick of the willingness there is in society, to excuse the way so many NRP's just wash their hands of financial responsibility for their children, it's part of the reason that 3/5 of them don't bother to pay at all and of those who do, the sums are usually derisory.

I haven't had this dilemma yet and I think even when my DC's are teenagers, I might not tell them. I'm torn between thinking that finances are none of their concern, even when they're teenagers, and bringing them up to have some sense of financial responsibility themselves - eg: if you want that DS game, you have to put aside christmas money and pocket money and save up for a few weeks, because then they value things more. It's difficult to know if telling them point blank that family finances are none of their business, is undermining the principle of helping them mature properly.

I want them to share responsibilities like housework, cooking etc., and while I don't think they should share responsibility for finances, I think it's good that teenagers are aware of them - you can't have a laptop and a guitar and a DS and a ski-ing holiday like Sophie, because our finances are different from her's and this is why.

How much do you tell them? And at what age would you answer a question directly like that? I tend to think not until they're at least 16+, but maybe that's infantilising? I really don't know.

Sorry that meandering load of crap isn't very helpful OP, is it?

herbeatitude, there is a difference between a father and a dad.

Not paying for raising your child is bad. THat is a given, IMO not even worth arguing over.

But not paying does not mean that you are incapable of taking your children out and being good with them, playing, doing and generally having a good relationship with them. To the dc it is the relationship that is important not the money and it is the dc that are first and foremost.

Sorry meant to add, it is the fact that the dc are interested in the relationship that often leads to the situation where a NRP can get away without paying as the resident parent wants to do all they can to protect the relationship - because it is best for the child - a fact that many non-paying NRP play on

Sorry that sounds to me like an excuse for men who are shit dads.

It doesn't matter how good you are with your DC's, if you aren't supporting them, you are big-time letting them down.

With the obvious caveats that SGM has already pointed out.

And I don't think children are impressed by it when they're grown up and do know about it.

They probably aren't impressed when they are grown up - but by then they are grown ups and can/should be able to deal with finding out that some people are not all they are cracked up to be!

I think the problem with men who don't pay though, is that they're not really functioning as fathers.

They're more like indulgent uncles. And on a lifelong basis, because they lack that sense of responsibility, I don't really get how they can function as fathers when the DC's are older. It's something so basic, supporting your own dc's, if you don't have the psychological sense of responsibility for it, I wonder if you have the sense of how to be a father in other ways as well.

Although I suppose life is full of ups and downs and people can grow into roles... some people are better at being parents when their DC's are grown up, perhaps.

HerBeatitude, you have summed up the whole package of responsibility as a father perfectly, I too wonder how if they think not providing financially is ok, do they really understand the responsibilities of providing and parenting in other ways too. I know that my ex thinks the fact that he is their father is very straightforward, for example I have another issue with him at present, the children do not want to see him and he has said that when they expressed this view, I have should have told them, and I quote, 'That he is their father and they have no choice but to go and see him'. This is off the point of maintenance obviously and there is whole story around it, but just to demonstrate how I agree that the actual attitude of not paying can often show itself in other forms too.

What makes me laugh about fathers that dont pay - unless its just my ex is that he still expects the boys to have the best/names trainers/clothes etc. And if I buy them anything but I am the bad parent because they will be picked on at school etc. It doesnt matter to him that I have paid all my bills, have them fed and lunch boxes at school sorted - grrrr

lol LittleBeaut, It's is bizarre the priorities of some men, I would actually say that my ex doesn't give a toss about stuff like that, he's too much of a tight arse to spend any unnecessary money, just realised he must presume giving me a financial contribution for the children is unnecessary as he knows that I will ensure that they have what they need!

If he wants his DC's to have "the best" of everything (ie the most expensive, what a vulgar man), then he's at liberty to pay for that.

He hasn't got the right to tell you how to spend your money, and I would tell him so.