Hi, I need advice off some mums.

[Leeloveshisson]

Ok, now were do I start. Im a dad to my son who is 2 and half years old. Me and Mum split up over 6 months ago and the split hasnt gone to well.
I'd like to point out that im a great dad to my son, and he gets whatever he needs and I also pay maintenace to his mum. I have never been violent etc.
Anyway as the split hasnt gone to well Mum will only let me see my son on wednesday evening (overnight) and Sunday 9am - 6pm. I used to have my son every other weekend and every Weds night. Christmas i wasnt even aloud to see my son on christmas day, so as my access was for sunday, i had him 9am - 5pm boxing day.
Im taking this to court because i want fair access and i belive thats benificial to my son.
Anyway mom wants to move away (30 miles away) and for a weds night access it completly unworkable especially as I have work in the morning. (120 mile round trip there and back)
So my question is this, what is a fair way to work out access, especially as i work 9-5 weekdays.
I would love to have my son thurs night through to sunday evening, putting my son in nursery on a friday, thing is as im paying so much in maintenace i cannot afford to do this.
Would any Mums like to comment or if have any further questions let me know.

No experience but great you want to stay in touch with your son and are seeking advice about what's reasonable. You must be careful not to seem too controlling - that's the root of most disputes of this kind imho.

Going to court is an aggressive move - some sort of mediation would be better.

You used to have your son every other weekend, what happened to change that?

Does your ex work? If she does then presumably he is in a nursery already on a friday and it seems reasonable that he would continue to attend the same one.
If she doesn't work then why put him in a nursery when a parent can take are of him instead. Surely being with a parent is better than being in nursery...?

You are asking for every weekend. That isn't reasonable. Your ex may or may not work now or in the future. Whether she does or not now doesn't matter really. There will be friends, relatives, grandparents who will also be able to see your ds on weekends. By requesting every weekend you are not taking into account her situation and what is best for your ds, only what fits in with your life.

You need to seriously look at your work situation. Maybe you can arrange some flexitime or reduce your hours so you can have and take care of your ds every other friday and work the hours back the following weekend when he is with his mum. Or perhaps reduce your hours all together at this point. Lots of women take part time and lower paid jobs in order to juggle family life, it seems reasonable that you consider this as an option too if you are serious about spending more time with your ds.

In 3 years time your ds will be starting school and pre school arrangements will not necessarily work when this happens. SOmeone will need to drop him at school at 8.45 and collect at 3.15pm. Are you going to leave this to her or will you juggle your hours and work to fit around your ds?

Not having a go here, just hoping you will look carefully at the situation and realise that you need to adapt your life to see more of your ds, not assume everything will work around what free time you have to fit him in.

This have been going through the solicitors for over 3 months now, and im getting no where. I'd love to sort somthing out via Mediation but Mom has been completly unreasonable about it. (i have offerd, she refuses)
Im not getting at anything or anybody, but mom gets full legal aid to prevent access, I only get part legals because I work and i will have to do the court thing on my own. Not only that when mom cut my access down, 3 weeks later CSA got envolved and now I have to pay FULL CSA. if I had my weekends back i would pay less, so it adds up that mom is only doing this for finacial gain.
This is really daughting to me and I only want whats fair for me my son AND for mom.

The sticking point will be that it is unfair that you have the opportunity to prioritise ceating an income for yourself (which you may well share proprtionately with your child) whilst the mother does not have this option easily wihout forking out for childcare.

It is absolutely right that good contact will be beneficial to your son, but for both you and his mother this will come at some price. For you that might be a downturn in your earning capacity. This you will have to suck up. Lone parents with residency don't have it easy by any stretch.

I agree that mediation would be best but there has to be disagreement as to a residency application or similar for you to be eligible for CAFCASS support.

you say the split hasnt gone too well, did you leave her?
its hard to form an opinin without any details.
being non violent doesnt mean it the break up will be easy for her.

are there grandparents, aunts, uncles who you could use as a go between?

opinion

Gillybean2, Mom dosent work so benifits from all tax credits, child benifit housing etc, I have no choice but to work. I understand your point about working Flexi and thats something im prepared to look into. I wassnt asking for every week end, either maybe 3 weekenends out of 4.
As you can see i want to maximise the amount of time i can get with my son and im hoping for some input in what mums out there think is fair, not only to me but mum too, all in all it is in my sons best intrest that hes gets to spend as much time with both parents as possible.
I take on your point regarding nursery and maybe that is not a viable option. At the moment my son dosent attend nursery and i would find it benificail to my son that he maybe attend at least 1 per week, until he reaches school age.

Lowercase, The breakup happend as we drifted apart, it was over a matter of time, I ended the relationship. It would of been excelent if we split on good terms but unfortunatly it didnt, and as time went by she increasing got bitter. I always tried to work things out amicably. I helped set up a new home for her and my son and her daughter from a previous relationship, to help with the breakup.

Being unemployed is by and large a poorer position than being employed despite state support. Plus there is no potential to improve one's financial situation.

Maybe look at the difference between your two residual incomes. Maybe you will find the money to pay for childcare for you to work that Friday when you take a look down that avenue.

Or else, perhaps you could provide care of your son in such a way that his mother could nuse that time to go out and work herself, therby improving her and your son's life chances.

A fair situation is one where the child is happy. This may mean adaptation along the way as the child's needs and wishes change.

he will be eligible for a nursery place in his third year, a very short time away, and by the time any court or whatever has come around he will probably be attending nursery.

also, you the tone of your posts sounds controlling, and you are not considering your ex.

the easier life is for her, the more pleasant your sons life will be.

Really the question is, What would you see as a fair and amicable way of access that both parents and child will benifit on. On the conditions described as above.
Id like to use that as a request to a judge when the need would arrise. Thanks all for input so far though.

If i sound controlling I apologise, but so far mom has all the cards and i only see my son on moms say so. like i say i want to be fair, with her.

Are you american? (just idly wondering, 'mom' makes my teeth itch).

Was you paying CSA payments before? Just at a lesser rate than you are paying now?

I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you but it does seem a real shame that you want to spend more time with your son but can't when so many single parents on here have the opposite problem!

Fair could be a 50/50 split
Fair could be one day each weekend or all weekend every other weekend
Fair could be collect from pre-school/creche (so that you are involved with that aspect of his life) leading into a weekend day
Fair could be 4 teatime visits to yours while his mother takes an evening job

Others are right, you appear to be trying to fit your DS into the time you feel you have available to him after your needs for time to earn or relax or whatever are met. No. You need to decide how you split 7 days and 7 nights between you so that family and extended family are able to see and support your child, be involved with the many facets of his life and allow him to form secure attachments to people. You need to do this bearing in mind financial and practcial constraints for all. Including the ex who you think is being difficult. She is left holding the baby with a bleak financial forecast at the moment. The Judge would be impressed if you acknowledged that.

nameymacnamechanger, lol Nope im from UK, just getting used to the terminology NRP, RP...

I wasnt paying though CSA, i was paying cash, then i started paying through her bank account and that was at the rate the CSA calculator told me to (53 - 102 days per year)
Now my evening stays have been cut i have to pay more. (0 - 52)
Paying maintenance is not a problem to me at all, it benifits my son so I see it as a good thing, but I dont see it fair if its used against the NRP to gain extra at the detroment of losing time to my son.

you still have your son overnight midweek and on sunday, for the whole day and into the evening.

this is good access in my opinion, and i would be suprised if any judge in the land would think it unfair to the child.

perhaps ask politely if she would exchange the wednesday for the friday and cite your reasons.

all the court stuff here is OTT in my opinion.

Lee you should check out Families need fathers. You can get advice and help there on issues like this and how to progress and whether to use a solicitor or how to do it yourself if tat's how you need to go. Don't expect it to be easy or for court to wave a magic wand. It will be many month, more likely years going back and forth to court to get an agreement.

Your ds will get a free place at a nursery soon. I'm sure your ex will be aware and looking into this. Perhaps ask her what she is intending in this regard as you have a right to be involved in choices about his education and to have a relationship with nursery too.

If your ex is refusing mediation you need to have that in writing. If you go to court the judge will expect mediation to happen and if she refuses she will not be entitled to legal aid. Mediation is likely to fail because she will only agree to it to keep her legal aid most likely from what you've said.
So you go to court, go to mediation, go back to court. Cafcass likely to then be appointed to make a report, cafcass ask for more time, go back to courtm reach an interum agreement, see how this goes, back to court if it doesn't or if all good to see about progressing.. blah blah.

And so weeks turn to months. Judge will try and get you to agree, she will give a little (maybe) and you'll have to accept it. Back and forth to court etc etc. Be very sure you want to get on this band wagon nd the legal costs involved. Don't expect court to be an instant fix but long term it may be the only way to get reasonable contact sorted.

Re the issue with her not working., I'm afraid that every parent has the right to stay at home to take care of their child. Usually this is done in a relationship where one parent supports the other financially and the SAHP supports the working partner by doing the childcare etc. Sometimes both parents work and pay for childcare. But just because you are not separated doesn't mean that your ex suddenly has to find a job. In fact she will have to actively seek work when your ds is 5 (it's going down to 7 and then 6 so probably be 5 by the time your ds gets there). She will not be entitled to stay at home forever. Also she may feel she is trapped with no choice but to stay at home, live a poor lifestyle (I've been there, it's not fun) and she may not entirely be happy being stuck/trapped in that situation either.

Oh and one last point for now. This isn't about what is fair for you or for mum. This is about what is in your ds's best interests. That should be paramount in your mind at all times, not what you want or is fair in your eyes. But basically yes, a good level of contact with both parents, shared parenting if possible and parents who work together for their child's best interest while putting personal feelings aside... ultimately that is what is best for your child in most cases. Unfortunatley real life, actual and perceived hurt on both sides, and emotions run high and tend to get in the way.

brilliant post gilly

Sorry Lee but you left. Hard as that is you have to accept that you left behind your rights to have everyday and full contact with your child when you did that. You left her in charge of your child and so now you do have to accept what she says and there are few options open to you if she is upset/hurt/bitter. You have no rights over your child, merely responsibilities as a parent. You child however does have a right to a relationship with you and you may need to ask court to help you ensure that your ds's rights are met.

All you can do is try and heal the rift for your ds's sake and if she can't/won't/isn't reasonable about contact then you may well find court is your only option. Given the short amount of time that has passed and the hurt and upset she is no soubt feeling at your leaving then I think most of us can understand why she may be bitter and difficult and yes some parents do reduce contact on money grounds when they are struggling. That isn't right, but that is reality. Maybe you should offer to pay the full amount regardless if the overnights. It may be a start if you take the money side of it out of the equation. ON teh otehr hand by accepting that she may feel you are trying to prove it is money motivated so not agree anyhow.

Also bear in mind that your perception of the relationship and why it ended may not be the same as hers. Accept her feelings and pain is real and is afecting her judgement and decisions perhaps. Mediation may be the key but if she won't accept it and it's forced on her by court I doubt it will resolve anything at this stage. Did you try relationship councelling before you chose to leave by any chance? Or did you take that decision into your hands without any discussion or attempt to fix things? Because maybe that's what she's doing now...

any particular reason why she is moving away?
is she moving because she has relative and support in that area?

My worry is this.... If she moves away, its not going to be fair to me or my son as we will almost definatly have less time to spend together, so we need a way to get more time, not only that I have to do all pickups and drop offs and 120 miles for access isnt a problem but if that is split twice in a week then it doubles. Ideally a block of days would be more ideal.

Or maybe you could move closer to where shes going too? As justforthisonce said why is she moving...
If it is to get support and help or to downsize as she can't afford current property then maybe your option would be looking to move closer to your ds so you only have a journey to work and back to do and then see your ds, rather than 4 journeys to see him.

ALso you must have moved recently to have left. Are you renting? If so it won't be hard to move to a new rented place would it?

Like others have said 'fair access' is different for everyone.
My ex-h and i tried different scenarios before we found one that worked for us, our ds was 7 when we split, he is now 10.

Ds lives with me but visits his dad on a tues for tea (approx 4.30-7pm) then goes friday night one weekend and saturday night then next (picked up about 5pm and brought home about 5pm the next day but times a flexible to the odd hour or 2) then once a month he goes for the whole weekend.

This is working well for both of us plus our son but would not suit everyone.
Personally i would not be happy to let my ds go for the whole weekend 3 weeks out of 4 as i would never see him seeing as he is at school all week but can see that if its a pre-schooler it might work out ok til they start school.

Is there a member of her family or a close friend who you could both talk to, to try to come to some arrangement without going to court? I did this for some friends of mine who seemed to just end up shouting when they tried to sort something out and i just listened to them both and then put across to the other one what was being suggested and we came to an agreement without too many problems.

She wasnt originally from this area, so is moving back to her home town. Her family and friends are there. If a relationship goes sour thats just it, why continue. We couldnt stay together because of arguing, but to be honest that isnt the issue.... the issue is what benifits my son.
Mediation isnt going to work, belive me when i say that. yea she will go, but the thing is its not legally binding, a court order is.
When she changes the time for me to pick up my son on a sunday morning at the last minute, its not fair is it. Last sunday pickup time was 9am but it was changed to 11am, because she wanted a lie in. Do you think that is fair?? I dont. The person who is controlling everything is the RP.
I have never missed a day to pick up my son, and im always bang on time. I always pay the maintenance on time. So in all fairness she should play the game too.
Wether I called an end to the relationship or not.
I wanted to ask what was fair and reasonable in a mothers eyes when faced with such a situation.