ILT? getting MH disclosure vs patient confidentiality?

[cestlavielife]

what disclosures on MH can courts ask for?
how do you get the forensic psych assessment?

long story...so having been thru contact centre etc in 2009 and pushed by CAFCASS/judge "you must move onto unsupervised and overnights as time goes by"...exP was in his "not depressed" phase from jan 2010 to oct 2010 ( i had set a kinda deadline "12 month before i can feel not worried" in my head)

half term he crashes, (so nine months in...) exhibits violence in front of DC and DDs say they scared, he has pulled one DD's hair etc. so i stoppped contact (I said "none except supervised" - as per court order which says supervised unless otherwise agreed - giving me the right/repsonsibility to amke that decision...); his friends told me they were worried, that he was "depressed again" etc.

i passed on info to GP, took DC in case they were unhappy not seeing dad and needed to talk to someone but in fact they fine and just happy they not seeing him. (i think i need to talk to counsellor all this is doing my head in but that is another story!)

GP wont say anything about whether he has been admitted/is getting treatment etc- just let on "there is stuff going on" .

i get that i cant be told about treatment etc...so far had two texts in 18 days one saying "how are the children" . i replied 24 hours later saying "we all busy".

today "how are the DC, please tell me something, i miss you all" . that i not replying to. his "missing you" is inappropriate. ...surely??

now presumably he lays low then perks up again following the pattern of depressed/not depressed over past five years - but if i dont know exactly what his diagnosis is, how can i make correct decisions?

ifeel i have been fooled by CAFCASS/court who have somehow thought oh well he was depressed about being abandoned by his partner and she took the kids away from him...he is just an abandoned father who wants to see his kids, ok some concerns so yes we will say first go via contact centre but please do rapidly move on from there .... yes they accepted contact centre etc but it was always with a "of course this will progress".

so it did progress and it has fallen flat/bit me in the rear again...and i didnt quite see it coming...and i potentially put my DC at risk...

how can i - or indeed can i - get some kind of disclosure of his state of MH etc so i can make longer term decisions about contact?

i have no doubt that in a few weeks/months he will pop up again in his "not depressed" state - because that is how it has been to extremes for past four years. the highs and lows were there all along i think but got worse since 2005/2006.

and when in his "not depresed" state he is able to bully/dupe everyone...with still risks eg this year twice losing oldest DS who is autistic during his "non depressed" (aka I am all powerful) phase.

or does really bad stuff have to happen first?

what disclosures on MH can courts ask for?
when the "depressive" phase comes with violence? (i use depressive reluctantly - i know not all people who get depression become violent. it seems to be an excuse for him....)

how do you get the forensic psych assessment?

oh and there is the stalker-ish behaviour "we could all be together again" stuff - during both depressive/non-depressive phases... his messages thanking me for attending a school event "with" him "it was so nice to be altogether" (i did not go "with" - i went to same event arrivng/leaving at different times, and didnt talk to him except when in proximity with others and did the "hi" thru gritted teeth thing...

i have tried to just ignore.

but maybe it is important?

Firstly I don't see anything inappropriate with him missing his children and asking after them.
Responding with 'we ae busy' isn't kind or helpful imo. Unless you trying to send him completely mad..?

Put yourself in his place (and a fair proportion of us will suffer from MH issues at some point in our lives). So how would you feel if for whatever reason you weren't being allowed to see your dc? I'm sure you would think it the least the person looking after them could do - respond to your request to know how they are doing.

I am sure he does miss his dc very much. He has been to court and contact centres to see them after all. A lesser man would probably have walked away long ago (about half of fathers do I believe)

So text him back please. All you have to do is say 'They are fine and we all hope you feel better soon'
Then he can't accuse you in court of being obstructive and denying him information about the dc.

I also suggest you text him once a week with a brief update - dc1 was x in school play and sang beuitifully, dc2 went to a friend's party, dc3 got a new pair of shoes...
Just short general things to help him feel he is in touch on some level with their lives.
If you let him know you intend to do this and try and make it a regular thing it might help him and will mean he's not texting you desperate for info all the time.
If he starts texting inbetween simply say I will text you an update once a week unless something important happens in which case I would contact you sooner.

Secondly how can the court and CAFCASS have mislead you? They presumably weren't aware of his medical records or that things were going to escalate. They haven't forced unsupervised contact, just suggested that you will need to consider it in time if everything is moving forward with no problems/issues. And court. Cafcass, contact centre staff, and even you yourself must have felt things were sufficiently ok to allow unsupervised access otherwise it wouldn't have happened...
Ok so this changed now and it isn't the right decision at this time, but such is the nature of life generally.

If you are back in court over this/contact issue hen simply say you have reason to believe his MH issues are having a direct affect on the wellbeing and safety of your dc in his care. You can ask the court to request his medical records I believe, but they are confidential so unless he agrees you can't see them. However denying the records to the court my imply that he has something to hide. I think that's a wait and see situation really. Are you due back in court soon and do you think he will continue to persue court at this time?

And how can you make a 'long term' decision right now based on whatever information is in those records or his MH at this point in time. People change with time. Some respond well to therapy and medication and the environment they are in. And some don't.
I swould suggest that you can make short term decisions in light of the info, and possibly put in medium term plans for contact. But long term plans should be more flexible and really shouldn't be set in stone from any one given point in time.

Isn't this what court & CAFCASS were doing already? It sound like you are saying that if everything was fine and dc/you were happy they expected things to progress forward. And you even say there was room for you to call a hault to things should the situation change as current order is for supervised contact unless otherwise agreed.

To me it sounds like you may be angry/upset at yourself for putting your dc in possible danger by agreeing to them being in a situation like this. And I'm sure that's quite a normal reaction. But don't take out your anger at yourself in him or via the dc's by stopping all and any contact from now till forever simply because of your own feelings on this situation.

Remember he will always be their dad no matter what. And right now you should be looking for ways to work together as their parents within the framework of what is best and safe for your dc.

So speak to your CAFCASS officer re this. You could suggest the contact centre again if that was working before and is appropriate at this time, but ask for staff to be made aware of current issues. If it's not appropriate at this time decide what confirmation you would need to have to agree to supervised contact again (letter from his doctor/specialist etc).
And text him for goodness sake with some kind of tangible info that can help settle his mind and the worry and stress he is no doubt going through. He's probably thinking the worst about it all and that won't help his MH one bit for you to just cut him out of the dc's lives completely.

In time you will start to trust yourself again about decisions you make and what to do for the best here. But right now that's probably really hard for you to do, I can appreciate that.
I wish you and your dc's all the best in what is a very difficult situation for you all. But I do feel you should to try and think about how your ex is feeling being totally in the dark as to how the dc are. That can't be an easy thing to go through either...

thanks for your input gillybean.

i was "letting rip" a little!

who is in the dark? i certainly am.

i appreciate what you saying about letting him know stuff - however there should also be a responsibility on him to explain why he hasnt wanted to see the DC at all i.e. i have no information from him that he is "ill". i can only assume. he has not said "i am not feeling well, sorri i havent seen DC" . he has just said "how are you? i miss you?".

yes i guess it is his MH talking...

he was in half term seeing DC daily - but there was an incident and i immediately said, look it will have to be supervised. i suggest you ask xxx to arange a visit there.

so i left it open for him to propose something.
I did not explicitly say "you cannot come to the end of week drama show". he didnt ask to come or comment about coming - had he asked i would have said yeh sure as is public and others around.

I do not actually, officially, from him or his medical team know if he is sick or ill.

no one has informed me of his state of health, least of all him and not the GP (patient confidentiality). so to text now "i hope you are better soon" makes no sense. i assume he is ill, I saw he was ill - but i do not know how is is now.

i do appreciate your input, today and always - right now - the ball is in his court to ask for contact. I feel that the GP saying "it is nothing to do with you" means that it is just that - it is nothing to do with me. his MH is nothing to do with me.

it is up to him to ask for contact. if he does - then yes his MH state does become an issue to ascertain....

the "missing you all" is stalkerish because he has made it clear he "wants his family back" when i have made it clear that isnt an option. his friend M called me - she doesnt contact me usually but she divulged that she was very concerned, she and another friend of his X had called GP on his behalf etc, but she hadnt heard from him for two weeks, did i know anything...i said "i know nothing patient confidentiality , GP has said "stuff is happening". she also then went on about how he still "loved" me. yadayada yeh right that is his problem not mine...

I am being kept in the dark here - while being plunged into doing 24/7 7 days a week, working every day, etcetecetc. not knowing if the prognosis is long/short/medium term, if he is in fact seekinn treatment etcetc. indeed, if he is in fact "ill".

if he is in fact seeing GP / CPn /whoever -then he can also use that conduit to get them to contact me on his behalf to ask about the children.

he is cutting himself off.

he is choosing not to ask GP/psych/CPN/Ss to act on his behalf in terms of contact with/about the DC.

I am happy to collaborate thru formal channels - but in the past it has proved risky for my own safety to be directly involved - when he is in this "down" phase. ie violence towards me.

so no I am not prepared to go thru that stress and risk again. i fooled myself lulled myself into thinking he was now accepting everything - and things were moving forward with contact, increasing contact etc...but yes that is cyclical MH for you (again, I am assuming).

i will go to GP again and make it clear that I am very happy to communicate info etc via an appropriate third party.

doing it directly with him - well it apparently sends him into tailspin because he thinks i "love " him back and we can get back together.

it is very complex and i appreciate that i am not understanding/sympathetic (enough?) to his MH issues.

but his MH issues or not -because in fact I do not know if he has MH issues right now - I am making that diagnosis based on what I have seen but I am not a MH expert right?

he has often taken the opportunity to tell me "i am not ill you are the one with MH issues". (perhaps getting court to order assessmens on both of us is way forward...)

maybe he just doesnt feel like making the effort or has decided he not prepared to do supervised contact again? who knows...

I have been given no information.

so his MH issues (or not?) are only my responsibility insofar as I have to make decisions about the DC. based on what i saw and what DC said, he isnt safe to be around them.

is he mad or bad? MH crisis or just angry that i dont want to be a family with him again after three years separation?

i have no idea.

I have assumed...the evidence points to a MH crisis - but maybe in fact he has just gone on holiday?

no one is telling me for sure either way.

his text msgs didnt divulge anything.

if his "cure" means he needs info on the DC -then he needs to work with his medical / SS team to request that from me.

trying to work directly with him has proved unworkable.

but thanks so much for your input it mean s alot - this is all driving me nutty and i gonna request sessions with the counsellor...

"court. Cafcass, contact centre staff, and even you yourself must have felt things were sufficiently ok to allow unsupervised access otherwise it wouldn't have happened..."

that is a difficult one - basically one is left on one's own. if contact centre goes fine, tick boxes off you go.

it doesnt cater for downturns.

did i feel things were ok - not really but felt i had to give it a try and see what happned didnt want to have my prejudices to the fore...not really any choice.

His doctor won't tell you anything, no point going there.

How about this friend who contacted you when she was worried about him. Surely you're more likely to get some info from her. Say you'd like to have some idea of what's going on with him but obviously you don't want to have him thinking it's because you want to get back together. Hence why you're asking her.

i did it as youn know cestlavie.....my ex was persistantly saying 'i want my family back' etc....that can't continue.

in my case,i left my ex to his own devices. initially he had contact when he wanted at weekends due to distance/work. i started fair,until dc reported worrying stuff. i stopped contact and told him take me to court....this was because he had already had extensive stays at headley court (army) and his doctor (army doc,must have broken patient confidentiality) told me he needed more than they could offer in timeframe given.

i left him to his own devices knowwing he would get himself into trouble. he did. my ex is violent. and other women started prosecuting so he got thrown out of the army. ended up in prison.....i let him do his worst,i knew he would. so courts had all this info....and me demanding a forensic pyshiatric evaluation of his MH BEFORE ANY contact. i told cafcass everything.

so i got the forensic report.....a copy was sent. revealed shocking stuff,and alot of medical records of psych hosp stays/sectioning......and his medical records,with NO mention of the cancer he claimed to have been diagnosed with a month after i left him (funny that)

anyway,psych had recommended a psychologist to do a report before a full contact schedule be considered. ex refused. and was no longer turning up in court. judge very,very reluctantly gave a section 91 (14) to prevent further applications for 6 years. he said he'd never issued one before but was reluctant. silence in court for almost 4 mins before he granted it after my excellent cafcass officer reiterated the catalogue of events.

my ex had become subject to MAPPA conditions.....the judge informed me of this....had been asessed as a high risk to women,and ss had taken his girlfriends dc into care because she was allowing him to smack the 3 year old....

a different case to yours cestlavie....i knew my ex well enough to know,left to his own devices,he would screw his life up. and he has. but he hasnt taken my dc (4 of them) with him.

my advice to you is to cut all contact.....leave him to it,he needs help. he cant bring you down as well. you are way too involved with him,imo. and your dc are very aware. i think you've done all you can.

tks ILT - i hav emade teh decision to go along these lines - no contact.

ues i would like to know (because that's how I am, i work in informatiton, i like to know what is what) but no i wont be pursuing info from his friends etc.

I do want clarity from GP eg would i be told if he kills himself.

because i like to know what is what.

and also is complicated by still joint finances - eg joint owned property which ehliving in (and not paying all costs for) - hearing next week for that!
doubt he will turn up

once all those financial ties severed will be so much easier.

no,you wouldnt be told,unless next of kin

who is next of kin?

later on,when his affairs are sorted,then i guess a solicitor would be in touch about property,but his family would maybe inform you before that point?

ummm, his family so officially next of kin are in spain.

are children next of kin only when they reach 18?

if he died i would like them to see his body...

after suicide?

as a former police officer i'd say re think that one,if the time comes! depends how he's died

my own ex has done the whole suicide threat thing too.....its bloody frightening what you have to think of with men like this. its abuse still,the sleepless nights i've had when he's rung me saying he's driving on the motorway andf is gonna speed up,,,,oooh theres a lorry in front,i think i'll crash.....unless you let me see the kids?? no? well,i'm putting my foot down more now,going faster....can i see the kids? no? oh,well,you explain to them why i'm dead.....speeding up more now....(phone goes dead)
bastard!!

meanwhile,he's driven home quite safely laughing about it