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Please could I ask for some advice on behalf of a very nice guy

10 replies

NoelEdmondshair · 09/11/2010 09:58

I know that many of you have left abusive/useless partners but my BIL really is a lovely guy who dotes on his kids and I'd appreciate some advice on his behalf.

His wife of many years has decided she wants to split. Relunctantly he has agreed to do so once they are financially able (his wife works p/t and he is unable to run two homes).

He is worried that he will only have access to his kids (dd 12, ds 9) one night a week and every other weekend. Is this true? He can work flexible hours/days and is a really hands-on dad so would he be likely to get joint residency?

He feels his wife would be able to dictate when he sees the children but could you tell me what would actually happen?

Thanks.

OP posts:
MrsBuble · 09/11/2010 10:09

I'm afraid most divorcees I know (male) see their children one night a week and every other weekend, it seems to be the standard arrangement.
He should contact the Citizens Advice Bureau and they may be able to give him an idea legally where he's likely to stand.

Niceguy2 · 09/11/2010 10:50

First of all I strongly suggest he does not leave the matrimonial home and does not let the kids move out either. His wife of course is free to leave if she wants to.

Secondly if he wants shared residence he needs proper legal advice and fast. Basically he will need to establish a routine with the kids where he is there quite a bit. So say 50-50, 3 days vs 4 days.

Your usual every other weekend contact isn't a good foundation to claim shared residence.

How amicable is the split? Its always better to agree between themselves. Is she amenable to the idea of shared residence?

Like I say, your BIL should get some legal advice from a proper family law solicitor fast. In my experience, its always better to talk softly but carry a big stick.

cestlavielife · 09/11/2010 11:09

if she is one wanting to leave eg affair etc then i dont see why she should not be the one to have every other weekend - all depends on cricumstances.

but the principle of 50/50 - and given the childrens ages they may have views too - also depends on school etc - a 50/50 arangement could work.

NoelEdmondshair · 09/11/2010 11:22

Thanks Niceguy - they haven't split yet as they can't afford to until his wife finds a full-time job (which she is reluctant to do). Given SIL's nature I can't imagine the split will be amicable but the kids adore their dad and would really suffer if they had little contact with him - given their ages, 12 & 9, would they have any say in where they lived?

If they sell the house, which they jointly own, do you know how the proceeds would be split?

Sorry for all the questions. I know BIL needs legal advice but he's sticking his head in the sand over this. DH and I want to be supportive (without interfering) but are worried about him and his kids (and his wife too but that's another story ...)

OP posts:
Niceguy2 · 09/11/2010 13:55

The kids age will help. If it ever got to court, what the eldest says will probably swing it either way and a judge would probably go with his/her wishes. The 9 year old would probably get asked but courts rarely split siblings up.

The important thing is to split finances from access. The two are unrelated and for good reason. Kids should not be pay as you go items.

As for the proceeds, thats a complex question. Since they are married, the starting point is 50-50 but lots of factors will influence the share. For example, length of marriage. His earnings versus hers. What each put in financially etc etc. This is why he needs proper legal advice. Sticking his head in the sand is pure denial. It's common at this stage. But he does need to get some advice. Because you can bet your bottom dollar she will be getting all sorts of advice.

readywithwellies · 09/11/2010 18:55

Agree with NiceGuy, I would also advice him to cancel any joint savings before she wipes him out. Also, set up an account for him and get him to squirrel as much away as he can - tell him its for emergencies if she gets nasty and to protect the children's interests in a court case.

houseproject · 09/11/2010 21:10

Good advice, he would do well to join a fathers organisation as well, maybe FNF, he will get support there and legal assistance.
Reality is - he has to be proactive - he should work out what the assets from the marraige are, this will include savings, debts and any pensions.
If there is sufficient assets could be propose they each get a smaller house, close to kids schools and then arrange for shared childcare. 4 days with dad, 3 days with dad the following week. He really should keep this as the focus - he is an equal parent - the child have a right to a good relationship with each parent.

He should not move out and he should be proposing a join parenting arrangement now - i.e collect children from school 50% of time.

gillybean2 · 10/11/2010 07:22

Fnf is great but it's a family organisation (not just for fathers).

Ok firstly is there no chance of saving this relationship? He may be a nice guy and work hard and all that, but that doesn't mean he is supportive of his wife and caters for her needs. And it doesn't mean she won't have gone off an had an affair. We can't know what goes on behind closed doors. But if it seems to be lack of communication and is possibly fixable then a relationshipo councellor may be worth a try.

But assuming that has been tried...

It does sound like he's hoping things will resolve and she'll change her mind. But he has to accept that it's unlikely. He needs to face reality and deal with things or he will get shafted re the house and his ds. Are his dc not worth fighting for....

Once they separate he is no longer responsible for her household costs. If she has the child benefit and the children more overnights on average he will pay her maintenance (usually based on CSA calculator here)
secureonline.dwp.gov.uk/csa/v2/en/calculate-maintenance.asp

She will also get WTC and CTC if she works 16+ hours a week plus child benefit and possibly housing benefit and council tax reduction (on top of the single person rate). And that's on top of whatever maintenance he pays her.

So she may not be rolling in it, but it's enough to run a home. If she needs more she can work longer hours.

Re the house. He needs to stay there, in his own room. I know this can be tough, especially when no end is in sight and things are difficult between them, but he needs to do this to protect his rights to the children and a decent house for them when they split.

He really must see a sol about the divorce, particularly splitting of assets. Is this something you can arrange and go with him for the first appointment.

Re the dc, firstly how hard is she going to fight this or is she pretty open to him having the dc regularly? Some parents put the dc's interests above their own feelings and wants, and sum use them as a weapon to get back at their ex for whatever reason.

How envolved is he at the moment? Does he do sch pick up and drop off any times now?
He needs to understand what shared parenting is. It doesn't mean equal time, but it does mean equal responsibilties. He will need to know what this means because many solicitors don't, and many judges need it explained to them too. It is changing slowely, but it's still more common for the main carer to get awarded residency. If he wants it to be different he will have to show why it's better for the dc to have shared parenting arrangegement. Look here for more advice.
home.clara.net/spig/

If possible it is better to agree betwee them re the children. The default position for residency is that neither of them has it unless a court orders it. So sometimes it's best not to force the issue in court.

If they can agree amicably to regaular term time contact (which generally is every other weekend and one week day and half the school holidays - what else was he hoping for? How does that work for him&work, the dc and his ex - He needs to be reasonable and show how this would work and be in the dc's best interests).
Mediation can help with this rather than solicitors. If it ends up in court it can be costly (although he can represent himself (see Fnf)) and lengthy and any court will want to see mediation tried anyhow. So try that route first...

At the end of the day you can only guide and support him. He has to do this and step up to it for the sake of his dc.

changeforthebetter · 11/11/2010 12:27

I don't know anyone who has the arrangement you describe OP. My DC see their father twice a week at my house (he chose to live quite a long way from us and doesn't drive, they are young so this makes sense now. If he moved nearer to us, I would be happy for them to spend some weeknight time with him at his place as they get older) They see him for a whole day every weekend unless he is busy (his choice) and overnight once or twice a month. Christmases are done on rotation (one year with me, next with him) and holidays as he chooses (I work p/t and he works f/t). All that said, he finds the DC "hard work" so it tends to be me pushing him to have them and certainly not me trying to restrict contact. Mediators will push (IME) for much more regular contact with the non-resident parent because that is in the children's best interests. Your BIL should work out what would be acceptable to him and then open the negotiations. I am sure the children's views will be considered too.

NoelEdmondshair · 12/11/2010 02:05

Thank you all for your replies, very helpful. I am going to chat to him about this tomorrow and strongly encourage him to see a solicitor.

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