Controlling ex playing games with maintenance, shall I refer to CSA?

[QueenofWhatever]

My ex, even by Mumsnet standards, is extremely controlling and angry. I left last July and we had a legal arrangement for our separation and DD last September. We weren't married but owned a house and had been together seven years.

As part of the agreement we both signed, he pays £269 a month and is required to send me his tax return every September to recalculate payments which will start from 1st October. So this is the first year and he hasn't done it - apparently his accountant hasn't finished his/her return. On pressing he says it will be done by the end of October. I don't believe him, as I checked his blog several months ago (once off, I just wanted to see where my DD had been on holiday with him)and he said he was just doing it then.

The thing is, I know he has lied about so many things. Looking back, my solicitor, despite being recommended by Women's Aid completely sided with him and told me the £269 was fair. I was shown a copy of his tax return which I recall saying he earnt £50k+. He was to send me a copy, but in my confusion I failed to chase it up.

Should I refer straight to CSA? Should I wait until November and say that I will refer on 1st December? Or should I wait and see what happens next year.

I am so frustrated with him still controlling my life. He still lives in our house which I own 2/3 of, it's been on the market since February without a single offer. He won't reduce the price, market it as without a chain or rent it out. He also won't pay the mortgage, just the interest element which our mortgage allows us to do as a holiday. However I don't want him to be even more intransigient about the house.

Sorry this is so long! I'm just sooooo angry and want to make a decision that's not based on emotion.

OOI, is that £259 plus the mortage, and how many children is he supposed to be supporting?

Don't know if you are earning anything.

If he says he will be finished by end of October (is this in writing?) then you can perfectly reasonably refer to CSA on 1st Nov. I see no reason you should add on a month and make it December. I am assuming that as you say it is being prepared by an accountant, that he has his own business or is self employed. When I was in business on my own, I used to keep good records written up every month, and could complete my tax return in a weekend, when I got round to putting my mind to it.

BTW I think you should write and ask for a copy of his last year's tax assessment. this is the doc issued by HMRC rather than a return he has filled out himself (how would you know if it was the same one he actually sent, or if changes were made later?) I don't know if you're entitled to it or not. The solicitor would know. Keep copies of all your letters and any replies.

It's £269 maintenance and the mortgage was £620 which we split 80:20. The interest is £100 a month, which I pay £20 of, as we owe the mortgage 80:20. There's just the one child involved.

I am earning, about £32k plus £10 a week tax credits (amazed I'm eligible for them, especially as I get maintenance).

Yes, he is self-employed and I'm sure is taking any and every measure to minimise his income. It only used to take him a day or two to do his tax return and then his accountant would turn it around in a couple of weeks over the summer. I just don't believe him, but can't prove it.

I am tempted to ask for a copy of last year's tax assessment. Just worried that if I go back to my solicitor I'll get charged just for the asking. They charged me for everything, including the time it took them to read and reply to e-mails.

I know compared to a lot of others on here I get a lot more money, but I'm just frustrated as he's using it as a way to keep controlling me.

There has to be a year and a day passed since the order was done by the court for maintenance, for you to go to the CSA. If it has passed, it's up to you. Only you can decide whether you would rather go through the CSA.

Unfortunately though, if you think he is good at "hiding his income", self employed use this as a way to reduce the payments they pay through the CSA. It's something you need to weigh up. If you go through the CSA, there is a chance you may receive less.

Sorry should have written "some self employed" do this, not all obviously.

I wonder if you can's use a solicitor to force the sale of the house in some way eg if he won;'t market it properly, do it over his head or get it recognised that he is being obstructive on purpose. As to the maintenance, I would advise informing him in writing of the deadline after which you wil set the CSA on him. Remember that when a man is an unreasonable arsehole, there is no point in trying reasonable negotiation, just hit hard and heavy via legal means.

OP said "As part of the agreement we both signed, he pays £269 a month and is required to send me his tax return every September"

so he is already overdue and has been given a concession by waiting till end of Oct as he has made a committment to deliver it then. No need to give a further concession.

And Solid, it is equally true that "when a woman is an unreasonable arsehole, there is no point in trying reasonable negotiation"

No need to be sexist about it.

Thanks for your replies on this, I'm finding this really helpful. I've been struggling with this for quite a while. Which is exactly what he wants of course.

The maintenance payments are not court ordered. We used reciprocal law to reach a legal agreement.

ChocHobNob, I know lots of self-employed parents minimise their income mess with maintenance. However when I use the CSA calculator, I am almost certain that he is already underpaying me. He has her 52 to 103 nights, so if he earns £600 a week, he should be paying £77 which he is not doing.

The problem is I don't know how much he earns. I'm guessing £600 a weeek is around £40k a year - the calculator is limited in that I would have to know his NI and pension contributions. But I get close to £2k a month and work four days a week so I'd be amazed if he is earninng less than £550.

I am quite well paid and better off than many single parents so can cope with the £269 or a reduction. Part of me just doesn't want the game playing, although obviously more money is always welcome.

I am very tempted to pass it all over to the CSA on 1st November whether he sends me the tax return or not. The year and the day has already passed regardless, but useful to know.

I have no idea if I can 'force' him via legal action to get the house sold quicker.

Hi

My recent experience with CSA has been shocking - my ex was earing £70k + per year when we separated last year. He is workign for an Australian company, but is self employed. We had an agreement, however he constantly moaned and begrudged paying me money. I gave up my career after mat leave as he was away on business all time and dd very unhappy at nursery. So, I'm now on benefits, we ahve gone via CSA - he intally declared his directors salary of £148 per week, therefore I was eligble for £10.71 per week, CSA then reviewed and now its £60.00 per week, which is still un unfair reflection on his enormous income. Bought himself a £25k BMW, hoildays abroad etc. So Ive had no joy from CSA,I almsot felt like I had to do their job for them. My lawyer has advised that since he is paid from outside UK company the court will deal with maintenace. Anyone had any experience of this?

He's probably setting up an EFURB, if he hasn't already.

I do wonder how those affect child support payments but it seems to me from t he little I know that they are an easy way to reduce your income while still having the same amount of money coming in.

OP - in reality his Tax Return doesn't have to be submitted until 31st January 2011. So while he may have said he'll have it done by then he doesn't have a legal obligation to provide it to the tax man yet even.
Also if he is the director of a company and gets dividends the company accounts may not have been finalised yet.

So going to the CSA now won't get you the final tax return. He simply has to say it's not been filed yet and provide them with last years.

He can also then go about finding lots of ways to make his income look reduced. He may deliberately do this just to annoy you if you go to the CSA. Some people do do this.

If you're happy with the £269 and can afford to bring up your dc on this then possible it may be simpler for you just to accept it.
If you're not happy about it and feel he is debriving his child then by all means get the CSA involved. But please be prepared for a long long long drawn out process, and him paying less at the end of it.
Of course he may well be one of the good guys who realises they have a financial responsibility to their child and pays what they should without a fuss and doesn't mind the CSA nosing into their affairs. Only you know what kind of person he is...

gillybean2, my ex is definitely not one of the good guys! He financially abused me for years, as well as a host of other things. But your points are helpful from a practical point of view.

I am fortunate that not having the money will not put me on the breadline. More than anything I want him out of my life and I think I am prepared to take the financial risk to achieve that. If I ever start seeing someone I think he will go mad, so would like to get all this sorted.

My ex is very socially governed, in the sense that he is cowed by authority and does things to make him look like the good guy on the outside. He's big on public parenting, but unwilling to spend a minute more with his daughter than he has to.

What Olive wrote was exactly what I was talking about. You might think he is underpaying now, but if you go through the CSA, be prepared for being underpaid EVEN more if he manages to reduce his declared income to them. Being self-employed means there are ways and means to do that.

With him being self employed, going through the CSA does not mean you will get what your daughter should be entitled to.

COncentrate on forcing the sale of the house through in some way, then. Can you not market it without his input? Or even (if he is enough of a knob to act up in order to deter buyers, for instance ie be demonstrably, deliberately obstructive) get him evicted from it?

I just don't know if there is any way I can force the sale. I'd be very grateful for any advice. He says all the right things and then subtly is obstructive, he's very good at it.

He lives in the house as I left with DD last year. It was the best thing to do and the police, WA and GP all strongly advised me to do this. Getting him to move out and me moving back in is not an option as too far from school and work, plus what he has said about me in our village. I'm not sure exactly what he has said, but no-one will talk to me. He's turned my sister and she no longer talks to me or believes me about the abuse. He's a textbook Lundy Bancroft type combined with impressive self-control.

Having read the other thread about the CSA, I don't relish the though of taking that route. But I have no idea if the maintenance he offers me is 'reasonable' and would use the CSA calculator as a guide. I shall wait and see if he makes the end of October deadline, not long to go anyway.

will there still be equity released if a lower price is set? what are the reasons for it not selling?

you can force the sale thru court order, but you need some info on if it could sell on reduced price etc.

Yes there will be equity, it's on at £335k and the mortgage is about £82k (which I owe 20% of, about £16k). As I mentioned earlier, I own 2/3rds and he gets a 1/3rd so I get £110k and he gets £55k. Then any remaining equity will be shared 50:50.

When we first had it valued (November 2009) it was £325k and £375k; we put it on at £375k in Febuary. We reduced to £365k after six weeks or so and then to £335k about 4-5 months ago. We have had no offers and only a handful of second viewings. We are in a rural village so activity is lower than in an town, but the agents haven't been very good. Since giving them notice ten days ago, we've had five more viewings which says it all I think.

My ex told me that the new estate agent said the £335k price tag was right. When I spoke to the agent (who chose his words carefully), he said he hadn't said this but that £335k was in the right sort of area. I knw we need to go to £325k and accept £310k, so does the agent and I have told him to push it this way. My ex tried to spin him a line about some land adjacent to our garden that could be bought for £25k (which will turn it into a textbook country cottage) saying it was not an option and he didn't want the agent to market it in this way. It hink the new EA have established an understanding about how to get it sold, but it could still take months

Reasons for not selling? He says he can't reduce the price as then he can't buy what he wants. He won't market it as no chain, as he 'can't afford' to rent whilst he buys. The reality is he's living in a four bed house in the country for £80 a month and his life has not changed since I left, just less childcare.

I am hesitant and cynical about going down the legal road about the house, as it will cost me a lot of money and I just don't feel the system works in women's favour. My experience last year was not positive.

OP, I'm in a very similar situation to you. I decided to not even both discussing it and although I thought I might get less through the CSA, it is worth it to remove money as another weapon. It will likely be hard to begin with but with a few adjustments I'm sure you'll manage. I definitely think it's worth removing the personal element.

Saffy, that's exactly my take. It actually isn't really about the money - I just want the games to stop. The CSA may sometimes be crap, but at least I don't have to deal directly with him.

He's going through one of peaks in terms of his abusive cycle. I get a text message or a letter from him virtually every day at the moment. Two thirds are nicey-nicey and then intermittently controlled and inflexible. I just need to ride it out, but I've had years of it and my tolerance is low.

However, I will send a letter asking for his 2009/10 tax return for my records.

Hi Queen, an update for your re CSA. I rang them yesterday, my keyworker rang me back, she then rang ex to confirm his salary and do online app,then she contacted his employer who promptly sent proof of his income. I'll be getting £90 less than I was from our private arrangement. I doubt it will prevent the control issues but at least he can't keep threatening me with the money thing. I keep hoping it will mean he will start to do more for DS. Although my friend nearly choked to death when I said that to her - never a good sign.

Couple of thoughts - I would alsways go through the CSA if you can - especially if split isn't good natured.It's an independant party who can deal with the facts and it saves the conversation with your ex. Also even though I'm a mum with an ex I have to say I would hate the thought of having to provide my ex with details of my tax return - it would feel like an invasion of privacy so I think the CSA is the best route.

Also I think there is some myth about SE not declaring earnings. I'm self employed (sole trader) and whilst SE have the ability to claim additional allowances for legitmate expenses it's not possible to lie about your income..Doing so is tax fraud so if your ex is using an accountant to formalise his tax return it's highly unlikely his income is being falsey accounted for. Also if he needs to get a mortgage in a few years he will need to prove income levels over 3 years.

In the current economic climate I really do not believe that he government would allow SE to go down the route of tax evasion. If you are registered as a limited company different rules do apply but again the CSA can determine the income and the tax man ensures he gets his fair % of corporation tax so clear rules have to be adhered too.
I would like to be PAYE, remember you get NI paid (SE have to pay this out of earnings), also with the new rules companies will have to contribute 3% to pension.Also add in sick pay, holiday pay then PAYE gives you at least 20-25% uplift on salary..if you earn £32k your fully loaded salary for comparisions is closer to £40k.

SELF EMPLOYED EX IS A CONTROLLING ABUSER AND LIAR. Im sat here in tears. can hardly see the keys to type so apologies for typo errors. my ex has been self employed for 6 years and has been able to manipulate his tax returns (via a friends wife who is his accountant) for his own gain. 1 being able to apply to apply for a mortgage which shows his true earnings and then 2. csa payments that are very low based on a wage that he was on 11 years ago at 22 and living at home with his mother. For the past 6 years (because he has paid so little to his children) I have seen him buy his own home, have holidays every year, have extensive work done to his house and alike. Because he has known he pays so little in child support from time to time he would offer money if a bill needed paying or the kids needed new shoes or uniforms for school. But this 'extra' money as he called it, came at a price to me. I had to be not in a relationship, allowed him to come to my home when he wanted, spend 'family' days together and lastly I had to show willing in the bedroom. while on 'good terms' i was able to persuade him to agree privately to a child support amount because i thought that that would take some pressure off me when recieveing payments from the csa and then waiting for 'extra' off my ex when he decided i had been a good girl and deserved an extra few pounds. I was so wrong. The emotional and mental control he has had over me has taken its toll and now i am left with no confidence or self esteem. its hard just to get out of bed and take the kids to school let alone decide whats for tea or be searching for a job now that my youngest is 7. last october i told my ex i didnt want to sleep with him anymore. that i wanted us to be friends and be there as parents for the children. it didnt go down well. and the abuse from then has been intolerable (words in text messages). he claims i owe him. not in money, just general. since christmas 2010 ihe has reduced child support and then withdrawn it alltogether. Since december 2010 to present (march 23rd) he owes almost £800 based on our private agreement. he tells me in a text message that he is keeping it and will treat himself. he has now been to a solicitor this month because in retaliation my only leverage to try and get him to pay some money again is to stop contact with the kids. i know this is wrong but he has me over barrel and i feel so abused by his behaviour all these years. his solicitors letters demand more access and to pay less child support or he threatens to go back to the csa. meaning going back to the csa will only work in his favour. his solicitor also writes that her client denys there are any child support srrears, despite me quoting my ex text messages blatently saying he owes me the money and he will be keeping it. my solicitor can not (or is not) helping me with the child support issue. he says its a matter for the csa. I have this week reported my ex to hmrc with as much details as i have about what he pays his employee, what he stated on his mortgage app form etc etc. i have also claimed with moneyclaimsonline for the arrears from him. where is the justice for me raising 2 of his children. i have no family support and do not know anyone in the village where i live. i am not working as yet because the hours of work i need between 9.15am to 2.45 just dont seem to exist. take take take take thats all my ex has ever done. and now theres nothing left to take because i feel i dont know myself anymore. my ex wants it to go to court to get what he wants. i am waiting on his response to my more than reasonable response to his.

justamum - what a nightmare!!!

get another solicitor for starters, one that deals specifically in family law.

You are being bullied and harassed by this man and it's about time your solicitor helped you deal with it appropriately.

Speak to womensaid and get some real advice from them.

Your feelings about work and the village you live in probably come from you depressed state caused by the bullying you are receiving from your ex. Once you get the feeling of control back in your life by dealing with him you will feel better about your prospects and get some self esteem back.

I rent and as my child is under 7 I do not have to work but have managed to find a little job in a school kitchen a couple of hours a day during term time. As I receive no maintenance and have a very low income I get help with housing benefit, income support, child tax credits. And I am financially stable. Skint, but stable. My rent is not all paid for so I have to be very strict with money but I do alright. Are you getting all the financial help you need? Check it out and visit your lone parent at your local job centre.

It gets on my tits how little justice there is. I have posted on another thread about CSA about how little society give a shit about women in our situation and this is just another example, your solicitor and your feelings of isolation.

well done for shopping him in!! And good luck.

HanBanan - Thank you for your message. Just knowing that someone has read my (very shortened) story has made me feel like im not alone. I went to see my solicitor today. The demands that my ex has made re access and maintenance I have had no choice but to say ok to. I have only tried to compromise on 2 accounts out of 8 damands. My solicitor is crap i think but his hands are tied when it comes to arguing for maintenance because he says its a matter for the csa. i have asked the csa for a variation claim form. i am now trying to collect proof that my ex has lied anout his earnings. the way he has controlled me over money and yes i would go so far as to say abused me and my vulnerability as a struggling single mum with no social or family network to turn to. i feel humiliated and degraded. today he has credited my account with £80. That is to cover the last 7 weeks. Im sure i said in my last message that he earns £650 a week self employed. Luckily im good with money and have no life to spend any!. All the money that comes in goes on the kids. I buy off ebay and am a pro at finding a bargain. I have to do and have to be. I phoned gingerbread today to ask about single parent support groups. My nearest one is 45 miles away. Im on JSA at the moment after leaving my job due to stress. My extremely low self confidence is my demon and its all down to my ex. I hate to make him the excuse for the position im in and the way i feel about myself and my life but 11 years of manipulation and degrading me has left me empty and alone. I wish I could meet other woman who going through this too. Im in York.????

I don't have gingerbread here either (nowhere near york I'm afraid). A close friend has recently had counselling I think organised through womensaid. She found that really helped. if you can't meet any like-minded souls in real-life you might want to try that.

You should speak to the lone parents advisor at your job centre re. child tax credits because you should be receiving that too. It's 55.64 per week. A massive help to me - I wouldn't afford my rent without it!!!