fighting over xmas dates

[redderthanred]

ex dh is being an idiot and has gone from all being fine to fighting about everythign from money to access. Its causing me sleeplessnights and huge amounts of stress. he is bullying and agressive and scares me.

He wants to have DD from the 17th dec to the evening of the 22nd. then frm the 26th to the 30th.

Im off work too, and that means i will only see her for 3 days. I cant see how that is fair.

he says as i have her all the time, its just tough.

She starts school in jan, and that is out last two weeks before that. I have tried to come up with comprimises which he just shouts down.

He said he is willing to have her 18-22nd then 26 -29 and that is final.

Im still not happy about that.
What can i do?

Is this the first year since seperation? If not, what happened last year?

What is his usual pattern of contact and what is it you want?

I think his latter proposal isn't totally unreasonable but it depends on what his usual routine is like. You still get all the key dates like Xmas & NYE.

At the end of the day, if you cannot agree between yourselves then you stay with the current pattern of contact and he can speak to his solicitor.

To be frank, by the time this rolled around to court, xmas will be a distant memory.

I do take his point that you have her all the time. She's his child too!

Its tough. What are the usual access arrangements during the rest of the year ?

FWIW, we have dsd one night per week and Fri-Mon every other week. Her mum always wants to have her for xmas day so we get some extra days before (and/or after). Obviously, all of dh's (and my) family want to be able to see her at some point over the holidays. This year we have her from the afternoon of the 18th (which happens to be her birthday) until lunchtime on Xmas eve. Her mum then has her for a week and we have her back from NYE for the weekend.

When I was a child, access was as normal (every Friday evening) and I just had one extra day at my Dad's house for boxing day. It was much simpler though because both families lived locally.

Sorry - just wanted to add my "Its tough" wasn't meant to be "its tough luck", just more of "its a tough problem" iyswim

he usually has her one weekend every other week and thats it.

So this is quite a lot more. And thats fine, but i do want to see her too. I might have her day to day, but im at work and things.

Ive sent him a text to say how about he has her after tea from sunday the 19th. then i will have my weekend off with her. he could then have her until mid afternoon on the 23rd. Then the dates after xmas as well.

How old is DD?

Personally I don't see much difference between 18th-22nd and 19th-23rd.

shes 4,5 end of jan.
there is no difference with those dates for him as he is off work then, so it would be fine.

There is difference in those dates for me as i will still be at work, but if he agreed to the 19th i will be able to see her on the weekend when im not working, and then im happy with that.

But because he knows that he is likely to be more of a sod about it.

Ah right ok. Makes more sense now and sounds a good compromise to me.

well thats what i think.

What he thinks is a different matter.

I kind of think then he is seeing her for 3 nights before xmas, and 3 nights after. which is more fair.

Is he not bothered about xmas day itself? It seems strange to be fighting over the days either side but no problems with the big day itself?

What is it you don't like about the arrangement, I think it looks prtty fair so we must be missing something..?

If she's not yet at school who normally has her during the day? You said you work too..
What days are you actually working?

On the face of it what he's asking for seems fairly reasonable (going with the final offer that is - ie 9 days each including one full weekend each and splitting the middle and you get her for xmas eve & xmas day and NY eve and NY day...)

I see it as follows:

Fri 17 - Mon 20 - weekend 4 days with dad
Extra days Tue 21 - Wed 22 (which he's willing to compromise on - Are you working these days? Reasonable for you to have these if you not working) - so say these 2 days with you
Thur 23 - Sat 25 - 3 days with you including xmas & split weekend
Sun 26 - Thu 30 - 5 days with dad (splitting weekend)
Weekend Fri 31 - Mon 3rd - weekend with mum
Presuambly starting school on the 4th?

So the split i basically
4 days weekend - dad
5 days - mum
5 days - dad
4 days weekend - mum

As you both work it seems fair to me that you have half the holidays each (now she is starting school). If he wants to see her more in the week when she's at school then he can always adjust his hours and do school pick ups etc. And if you're working then it'll save you having to find child care if he'll have her the days you are working.

The first thing I would ask him is is there some specifica reason he's fixed in these dates? Does he have family/relatives coming or planning on going to see? Has he booked the panto or other special event? He might be being 'stubborn' because he's got specific plans.

At the end of the day you could make life really difficult and simply not make dd available and then he'd have to take you to court. I'm not suggesting you take that route though, it's probably not in your dd's best interest to do that.

If he takes you to court (now or in the future) and she's at school, he's most likely to get awarded half the school holidays. Which is basically what is on the table now anyhow.

No court case would have this sorted for this year, and highly unlikely he'd get it sorted for next unless you and he both agreed. So you both need to be reasonable and compromise here; easier said than done of course, particularly with an ex.

So I suggest you try and find out from him why he is insisting on these dates, and if there's nothing specific and you are both working some of the holidays, then he will have to compromise. Explain about your work/holiday situation and remind him of the dates that dd is starting school and ask him to be considerate here.

Course he probably thinks he's being reasonable, and with the second/'final' option he probably is being fairly reasonable. You end up with 9 days each that way. You both get a full weekend and you split the middle weekend.

So probably need to know why you're objecting (probably to do with when your working/off work ?) to see where the issues are.

Suggest you start sorting out half term and Easter pretty soon too as you'll be needing to work out childcare options if he's not going to have her for you then. Oh and non pupil days...

It's not easy dealing with your ex and having to find a compromise that suits everyone. But in reflection do you think that perhaps you're being a little sensitive here with everything else that's going on?

He normally only has her every other weekend. He lives an hour away so will never be able to help out with school runs, and never will be able to.

I dont see that its fair that i have to do all the day to day things, then he comes up, and picks her up for pretty much the whole of the xmas holiday, which i am off work for and gets one of the best bits.

He will never get awared half holidays, and contact ( we try to keep to every other weekend) is sporadic due to his job in the forces. He will never take me to court as he knows he has no provison beacuse of his job.

he hasnt booked anythign special.
But it doesnt matter as he has agreed to pick her up late on the 19th, so i get to spend my weekend with her, and then bring her back on the 23rd. then pick her up on the 29-29th.

but it's not tit for tat bargain. It's a child ho needs time with her father and a father who needs time with his child.

and who gets plenty of time with her when he can.

And who im flexiable with to the extream. like this weekend he phoned an hour before he was due to drop her off to say he was going to keep her another night as he got a day off short notice. I agreed and had to change my plans around short notice,and still pay childcare anyway.

But what he orginally saud left me with literally 2 days over the whole of the xmas period and that was not fair.

He was being abusive and calling me names and all sorts.

well done redder for standing your ground.

Your suggestion was much fairer all around.

redder - I have recently taken legal advice regarding changing access and NiceGuy2 is right. However, whatever you agree over Christmas could be used against you to get the same or more in future years. If you do not come to an agreement, my solicitor said you can ask the court for a judgement for just a certain period say 18 Dec to 1 Jan but this may not go in your favour.

"I dont see that its fair that i have to do all the day to day things, then he comes up, and picks her up for pretty much the whole of the xmas holiday, which i am off work for and gets one of the best bits."

But you're getting the 'best bits' - xmas eve and xmas day. What could be better than those? Lots of people have to share half those days with an afternoon handover on xmas day or missing the whole day every other year.

Redder your dd is about to start school.
I think perhaps the issues here are because your interpretation of the holiday period and his are different.
The "holiday period" is not the bank holidays or the days between xmas and new year when a lot of offices can be shut etc. The holiday period is the whole of the school holiday.

He was settling for half of that as far as I can see. You say you were only getting 3 days, when in fact with his suggestion (the final one as you put it) you get 9 days each of the christmas school holidays. Maybe you were only having three of your days off and dd would have been at childcare the rest or something so you don't strictly consider it time with her, but that is what it's like when your child starts school.

Basically normal weekend contact tends to get suspended in school holidays and half each of the holidays is normal (if there is such a thing). So if your ex was trying to be fair and do half the holiday's each but was working to a different holiday timetable than you then perhaps you don't see it the same way that he might be.
Like I said before, it's hard to communicate with an ex.

And yes, whatever you insist upon this year you can expect him to want the same in reverse next year.

And yes it is tough when you do all the mundane, day to day drudge stuff and of course you feel why should he come along and have all the fun stuff with none of the hard work. It is perfectly normal to feel that way. But this isn't about how you feel, it's about your dd getting to spend quality time with her dad, who she no doubt adores and loves, just as he does her. She is entitled to a relationship with him. And given what you say later abut the difficulties of his job and working around that it's understandable he wants more time when he can manage it.
It's about finding a balance for you both.

So try to put aside these thoughts and feelings because at the end of the day you do get to spend the most time with her. And her dad must miss her dreadfully too and that's probably why he was pushing for as much contact as possible. Particularly if he knew (as he probably did) that he was going to have to compromise on what he wanted.

She knows you're her mum and you will be the one there for her no matter what. Nothing can take away that security for her, the home, and the love she has in you.

I think what's arranged now is fair.

I'm a LP as well, my ExH has the DS's once a fortnight at the weekend, this year Christmas day is on a Saturday, and it's "my" weekend with them.

He's asked to have them from 11-3ish on Christmas day = ironically the day he ask DS1 and I had been talking about Christmas day and about going to church and then having a proper Christmas lunch this year -I was looking forward to it. my boys are now old enough to all appreciate a good Christmas lunch.

I've had to forfeit that, which yes - is a little gutting, but they're his children too and the fact that he actually wants to see them "outside" of his normal contact times is good - so I've let him have it.

I won't get to do a New Years lunch with them either - that's also at the weekend and it'll be his weekend.

no- he wanted the whole of the xmas period, almost 2 weeks with her, leaving me with 2.5 days out of that.

That is unfair. On her and me. She never wants to go for more than 2 days, and has once in the past and all she did was cry and want to come home.

He is off work for a whole 2 weeks, as am 1. We just go back at different times.

He wont expect the same next year, with his job things change at a second notice. Like i said he had her for an extra day last weekend and is having her for an extra weekend now. 3 weekends in a row.DD is already crying saying she doesnt want to go and she wants to see me. But then he isnt going to see her for 6 weeks.

I am not, and have never tried to stop her seeing him. I dont know why you have got that opion. I just want to see her too, for more that 2.5 days out of two weeks.

I know it's hard. But can you see the issue? For you not to see your DC is not fair for you, and for him not to see his DC is not fair for him?
What does your daughter want? Does she really not want to her dad much?

If I let my DC choose when they see people they would never see one set of GP's and one DC would hardly ever see one parent.

It's a flippin nightmare.

She actually doesnt. We seperated when she was 20 weeks old and then due to living in different countries, tours and various other things, he didnt really see her hardly at all until she was almost 3. In her whole life she has only lived with him about 6 months.

In april last year we started one day weekend visits, and this has been built up to 2 nights now.

He had one week in the summer and that was too much for her. she was crying and wanting to come home. It was awful. But i made her stay.

She really doesnt want to go to his again this weekend, for the 3rd weekend in a row. she sat crying in my bed this morning saying ' but i just want to see you mummy, please let me stay with you'

What do i do? after this weekend he isnt going to see her for 4 weeks.

he isnt that bothered by what shes up to, and now only just as she is going to school has he even bothered to ask what nursery she is at, and what she does. BTW, this is also the man that said i should work from 7am, and put her in childcare from 6:30 am daily.
He is the one that trades her like a comodoty.

I just think him having her for pretty much 2 weeks is wildly unfair on her and me.

But it doesnt matter as after 3 days of arguing we have come to an agreement.

What i dont like is that he called me up, told me he was going to have her for the whole of the holidays 'shit of bust' and was agressive and nasty and bullying.

redder, I think you've been (and are being)fair and I'm glad it's all worked out. Hope you and dd have a lovely Christmas - and you get to do lovely Chistmasssy shopping trips and wrapping presents by the tree etc etc in the days your ex has your dd before Xmas! take care and don't let his abuse get to you.