Shared Parenting: getting me down

[MakingAMess]

Is anyone out there doing a shared parenting agreement with their ex?

We have two kids (DS - 4, DD - 19 months).

We have 'agreed 'a 50/50 split as this is the only way we can avoid ending up in court.

The kids seem fine so far (has been in place since August). Very little anxiety / crying etc.

However, I feel dreadful. Feel guilty for 'abandoning them' 50% of the time and terrified that the long-term effects of this on their emotional development will be negative. Particularly on the little one as she is at a critical age for identity forming etc.

I spend every other weekend without them in tears. I don't have any relatives or close friends in the area. Moved here 9 years ago because of ex-husband's job but have never worked in the area and only have friends through baby groups etc. Don't want to see them at the weekends because they have their kids, and I don't have mine.

There are two reasons why I am not applying for residency. Mainly I don't want a messy and expensive legal battle as that's not in the children's interests. Secondly, the kids seem to be ok with this arrangement...

Just wondering if anyone else has been there with kids this age, and how they got through it.

[MakingAMess]

SGB - thanks. yes, counsellor also told me he was an abuser. i think he loves the DCs every bit as much as i do. but he wants to try and control me (and them, i think), and he can do this in this scenario. he knows that even though i have left him, i can't move away without going to court re: residency. i have never worked in this area as i am a mobile IT consultant; i have no friends locally other than people i know through baby groups etc. and i have no relatives around here. so i am effectively trapped somewhere i really don't want to be. he knows that.

he now holds the key to moving this forwards as he has to make the mediation session appointment (he is 'too busy' apparently).

to give you an example of his 'controlling' behaviour, all the photos of kids from birth are on our joint laptop (which he has kept). he has changed the password on it. he won't burn me copies of the photos... so i have no photos of my kids. i asked for copies of the photos on CDs (which i offered to provide) in mediation and he said 'i don't feel like being that generous'. i challenged him, in front of the mediators, and he said 'no'. they made nothing of it. that's why i think they are a waste of time.

[cestlavielife]

ah - now there is another angle to it ie his abusive behaviour - which makes it all the more understandable ....

can you get agreement changed to include some clauses for "when child is sick if mother or father are able to they should take time off work to be with child, if that is possible" os some such wording.

need to cover all eventualities...

the witholding photos thing is dreadful...

can he just bring the lap[top to the mediator and download onto a USB stick. he doesnt need to burn CD - just download onto a USB.

[MakingAMess]

cestlavielife - i am of the 'cover all bases' school of thought too. i have tried without success to get wording added to make things flexible / reasonable but get refused at each stage.

i have tried to get wording added to our agreement re: forms from school. having previously never so much as looked at a form, ex now wants all school forms to go to him so that he sees them. this galls me on two fronts - he has NEVER filled in a form for the kids in his life; and he NEVER deals with any forms that come his way and are to do with him. he never opens bank statements; never knows where any paperwork is etc. he is the one who has lost his OWN birth certificate and his driving licence. when we came to go away on honeymoon, he realised his passport had expired...

so i don't trust him with paperwork, and now he wants it all. i tried to get an arrangement which was 'copies of all paperwork sent home from school with children will be made for non-resident parent.' but no - he wouldn't agree to that.

fortunately the nanny is on the ball with forms, and i just have to pray that not too many are sent home to him on the one friday a fortnight when he picks DS up.

[MakingAMess]

i can't imagine he would bring the laptop to the mediators. he basically said i don't feel inclined to be that generous to you. he KNOWS how much i want those photos - so he will do everything he can to make sure i don't get them.

[Niceguy2]

If its a joint laptop and you can get access to it then simply remove it. If you take it to a decent computer shop, they can bypass the password easily enough for a small fee.

Your sol. is right. Shared residence != 50:50.

The important thing is to keep doing what you think is right for the kids whilst looking at the bigger picture. It's too easy to get caught up in tit for tat battles.

Ultimately IF it goes to court, your chances are greatly increased if you can show you've been accommodating and flexible whilst the ex is entrenched and unnecessarily hung up over the concept of 50:50.

[MakingAMess]

niceguy2 - i could probably take the laptop for a day while he was at work. but, even though it is still officially my home (half the equity is mine and my name is still on the deeds), i have to have his permission to enter the house. if i snuck in without telling him, one of the neighbours would no doubt tell him. the house is on a very quiet rural lane and i have caused the stir of the century by moving out. my every move and motive has been scrutinised ever since news got out that i had left him. i really dare NOT do it. i could possibly get the nanny to bring it to me, but i don't want to implicate her in this. i know where her allegiance is, but i don't want to abuse that.

[Niceguy2]

Actually if you are on the deeds, you don't need his permission to enter the property at all.

That said, there of course would be fall out if you did so and took the laptop so you are wise to think of that.

Ultimately its up to you about the lengths you go to to get the photos back. But I know I'd be pretty steamed about it too.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Give the nanny either a blank CD or a USB stick and get her to download the photos for you. This is not theft as you are not depriving this man of anything at all.WRT the neighbours, make sure they all know you left him because he was an abusive bully.
OF course, they may know already (another comon tactic of abusive men is to convince you that they are wonderful, everyone else admires them and that you will be percieved as ungrateful, difficult and out of control for having left. This is more bullshit. Lots of people can spot an abusive relationship and who the arsehole is. I expect several of your neighbours were thinking 'About time, too' when you broke free of him.)
TBH I would discuss with your solicitor what s/he thnks about calling a halt to the mediation - it's not going to work when the XH is abusive and a bully, and you might as well go straight to court. I know you want to feel you have tried your best here, but you are dealin with an abuser, not a reasonable man, so you need barricades in place. Remember his motivation is not actually the children's wellbeing, it's to punish and distress you.

[MakingAMess]

SGB - he has changed the password so i can't get the nanny to download the photos or i would.

i do understand how abusers work. and there is certainly an element of abuse and punishment in what ex-h is doing. but i don't think ALL of his behaviour can be explained by that. he does actually genuinely love the children. and he does look after them - not in the way that i would, but they are fed, clothed and very well entertained when they are with him. and they love him to bits.

his parenting style does cause some conflicts - particularly with DS. lots of mock fighting, screaming etc which i do not like. and lots of shouting at kids by exh - which to be fair i also did while under the same roof as exh, because the level of tension and stress was so high.

but since i have been on my own, i haven't shouted at the kids once. i'm sure i will in time - i am NO saint. but i am so calm, and parenting them on my own is an absolute joy.

and when exh picked the kids up from me the other fri, he had only walked them to the car and already DS was screaming and exh was shouting at him about something.

but generally, i do not think his motives in respect of the kids are as bad as they might appear. the way he deals with me may well be, tho. but, at the end of the day, that shouldn't matter as long as the kids are fine - and they are.

[inveteratenamechanger]

God, you poor thing. He sounds like a total prick. You are definitely well of out of it. Well done for leaving him.

No wonder you are emotional. Hang on in there, things WILL get easier.

[CarGirl]

I was wondering if you could use the fact he has cancelled mediation and refused to rebook as a reason to take him to court?

You could cite things that you were are not permitted to look after the dc when they are sick and he is at work?

Worth asking your solicitor about?

[MakingAMess]

CarGirl - yes perhaps i could. but i don't really want to make things difficult. when i put it on paper, it does make him sound like a 'total prick' as ivnc calls him. but actually i don't think he is really. he is a control freak, and he has a tendency to bully and be arrogant. and the counsellor did say she couldn't find a streak of humanity in him to latch on to... but he isn't all bad (or i wouldn't have foolishly agreed to marry him), and he does love his kids.

now that i have my two babies safely sleeping in my house, i feel much calmer about it all. i can see that the kids love him and enjoy spending time with him. just as they love me and enjoy spending time with me. i can't see that when they aren't under my roof though...

so perhaps it is just a matter of time. and that i will eventually get used to it - much as the thought of that makes me want to be sick right now.

[CarGirl]

I perhaps go against the grain and say shared parental responsibility doesn't have to mean a 50:50 split, it could be 55:45 it could accomodate you spending more time with then than he will permit you when he is at work!

TBH it sounds like your only hope is that he moves onto someone else and he will be so busy controlling them you will get cut some slack.

[MakingAMess]

lol CarGirl. precisely my hope. i REALLY hope he finds someone PDQ and that they want to have his babies. then maybe i can have my kids back.

[whiteandnerdy]

Indeed, to me 50:50 shared parental responsibility is where each parent percieves the responsibility and contribution of the other parent as equal to their own. Not simply them spending the exact number of seconds with them.

However, this seemed alot easier when in a relationship to resolve the differences of perceptions than when you've seperated and can't stand even looking in the other parents direction. "sigh"

[SolidGoldBrass]

I'm liking the sound of this less and less MAM. Men who 'playfight' with their children are abusive if they don't stop the minute the child becomes distressed - it's not 'playful' , it's bullying.

[MakingAMess]

whiteandnerdy - i whole-heartedly agree with your definition. and i will never in a million years perceive that the responsibility and contribution of my exh to bringing up the children is equal to mine. there are far too many things that he is not interested in / does not do / will not think about.

to him - it is 'bums on seats' (in whose house is the child being cared for by the nanny, for example). he talks about it being a '[house-name]-based day' (where he lives) or a '[road-name]-based day' (where i live). and that is where the children are being cared for by the nanny. when it is a '[house-named]-based day' he wants the DD returned to the house by the nanny and cared for there until it is time for the nanny to drive across to the school (2 mins from my house) to collect DS and then they all go back to his house, until he gets home from work (usually 6.43pm as nanny finishes at 6.45pm). it is bums-on-seats / time-in-house. 'i don't want them to end up wanting to live with their mother by default, just because they see more of her'.

ARGH!!!

so deny your children a chance to see their mother and keep them in your own house (where, incidentally, you are not - because you are at work) being cared for by the nanny until they get home.

[MakingAMess]

i would say ex-h torments DS. he mock play fights with him. DS is screaming 'stop it daddy' but sort of laughing at the same time. and then DS oversteps the mark and exh shouts at him.

what REALLY scares me (and my mum) is the way, when DS oversteps the mark, ex-h shouts at him, picks him up with a face of thunder and makes as if to smack him or throw him or something. and then tickles him. it scares me every time he does it. but he has never lost it with him. it's just that he looks as if he is about to. and if it confuses me, what must it be doing to DS?

whenever i have tried to talk to ex-h about it, he says 'he likes playing like that'. and he does - for a few minutes. and then it is all too much. getting home from work at 6.43pm and then proceeding to chase him round the house, shouting and mock-fighting with him for 20 minutes before bed is never going to end well.

[Niceguy2]

As much as you may not like it and you don't agree with it, ex's behaviour cannot be considered abusive.

I've had many a play fight with my son as I am sure millions of other father/son's. Have I gone too far? Probably have on occasions. Has my son sometimes done wrong? Sure. You know what, its all part of the learning process.

Sorry SGB I have to disagree with you here. I can't see how what MAM's ex is doing can be considered as bullying. It sounds just like a bit of fun to me.

The thing is that I am sure if your ex were here, he'd be pointing out a list of things he dislikes about the way you do things too.

[Acanthus]

Colditz 17:07 post about child benefit is not correct - don't let that worry you (I'm a family solicitor).

Do also bear in mind that according to SGB at least 90% of men ever mentioned on mumsnet are abusers - I think there is a possibility that she may not be right all the time.

Your kids sound fine. You aren't weakening your position on a future court app by doing what you're doing.

[SolidGoldBrass]

The reason I'm flagging this as abuse is because of the rest of this man's behaviour. Don't forget that the OP was told by a counsellor that the man is abusive. Don't forget he won't let her have copies of the DC's photographs, which is not a matter of taking anything away from him, but something he can do to distress her.
Don't forget that he is stalling mediation and being unco-operative, and is so fixated on his 'rights' that he would not allow the OP to look after her sick child herself because it was his day - even though he was not actually in the house with the sick child.
So the fact that he likes to frighten and bully his son under the guise of 'playing' is a further indication that he is a selfish bully who likes upsetting and hurting people.

[MakingAMess]

acanthus - thanks

niceguy2 - re: abuse. i agree - his mock fighting isn't abuse. but he torments DS - definitely. i hated hearing the screaming and crying that would always follow (every night) from the mock fighting. fortunately i don't have to hear it now. i think it is ex's responsibility to set boundaries and know when to call time. but he doesn't. therefore the mock fighting ends in tears / shouting every night.

i have been careful in my replies to say that there are elements of abuse in some of his behaviours. the counsellor i saw made this perfectly clear. my parents see it as well. i know my parents are on my side but my dad in particular is a very balanced bloke (ex prison officer and ex police man) and has seen all sorts in his life. but he was very clear about what he saw happening in our domestic situation.

there was never any physical abuse towards me. but there was emotional bullying and verbal aggression in spades.

he loves those kids to bits. and he would never do anything to harm them intentionally. but his need to control them (like restraining DS in a mock-fight which makes him scream the house down) worries me. and there is far more shouting and swearing at them than there needs to be. i was as guilty as him while under that roof because i used to shout and swear too (although not as much as him and not at the kids, which he does). if he tried to change DS and she squirmed, he would call her a 'stupid fing baby'. when she had clearly had enough dinner and he was trying to get another spoonful in and she batted the spoon away and it went all over him and the table, again 'stupid fing baby'. but it was 'ok' because she 'didn't understand'. yeah right...

there is none of that in my house now. the tension and aggression has gone. it is calm (mostly!) and very very tidy. . and yes - niceguy2 - he HATED the way everything had to be tidied away all the time. and many other things about me, too, no doubt...

[cestlavielife]

sorri but the more i hear about this man the more i tend towards SGB's analysis - he calls a baby a F---ing baby - what is that all about?

he wont let op have copies of photos for good ness sake!

her parent counsellor all agree he is abusive...

the children love him - it's all they know - the four year old screams...

it's very hard to believe that - long term - this man's behaviour wont be damaging to those kids...

i dunno - but i think you have to start getting firm about getting the photos.

small thing but big thing really.

and if he wont go to mediation - give him a final warning then take him to court to get it sorted there... tho not sure what you want to achieve? on paper the 50/50 split is fine, dc are happy and why would you want that changed? (objectively) there is nothing wonrg with being a wori=king parent and arriving jsut in time to relieve the nanny..

but there is other underlying stuff about his behaviour...and mnaybe that si the cux of the op's opening - as to why she finds it hard to let go..

[pithyslicker]

How long have you been doing 50/50? As things still sound raw.

[MakingAMess]

yes cestlavielife. i think this is why i find it so hard to let go. whiteandnerdy's post expressed it so well. in order to accept this 50/50 split, i need to accept that ex's responsibility and contribution is equal to mine. and i just can't do that right now. i see just how little he has put in over the 4 years, how all the decisions, worry and stress has been left to me, how he hasn't cared about how we make our life with the kids work... and now he wants 50% of them and to veto all the decisions about everything.