Could he get custody - anyone know how risky this is?

[AisieSusie]

Am having horrible trouble with dh and I have to start thinking abut the possibility that we may split up. We have a 7 month old ds and a friend has just told me she thinks I am laying myself open to dh getting custody and me having to pay HIM maintenance... if he decides to be horrible - so am panicking a bit.

have posted in legal & lone parents as not sure where is the best place..

here's the situation [bit long as not sure whats relevant to this]:

dh is not british, and has a visa for the uk based on our marriage [discretionary leave to remain, not a spousal visa]. He is from a war torn country, and this is part of the problem actually, as he is totally f*cked up from this.

Anyway, we've been married 6 years, he didn;t have a right to work for the first 3 years, and then he got a visa so could work, but only ever did cash in hand work [so no records]. I have paid for everything, solicitors bills, rent, living, everything. I have a skilled professional job and have worked my way up over the last 6 years so am a high level. So huge difference in earning potential. I work like hell and am consantly knackered trying to hold everything together. I have been waiting for dh to get his head together and start working, but he hasn;t. I have paid for councelling etc to try and sort things out, but he is barely functioning. And he blames me for everything and is really nasty alot of the time.

So got pregnant accidentally [which was a blessing for me as I desperately wanted children, but he kept putting it off to wait until he'd got a job / made something of himself etc]. He freaked out, left me, said & did some pretty horrible things. The moved back in but things have been horrible ever since, and he moved out again last month.

So heres the problem, I am in huge debt from supporting dh all these years, but debt in my name only. I have to go back to work to pay them off, and to pay for rent etc even though i really want to stay with my baby. I am not very well either [spd], and am really struggling with going back to work. I am very depressed and after having read alot of mumsnet posts, I think I would say dh is being very abusive, although because he's screwed up, not because he's evil [but same effect though].

I cannot afford any childcare, but have too high wages to get any state help if any kind [all spent on debts].

This means dh is going to look after ds in the day. It will be a year before i can pay back debts and afford a nursery.

Here's the worry - my friend reckons that he could get full custody in this situation, and even get money from me to support him... is this true???

He now pays his own rent for a room [probably no paper trail though], we have a joint account but i only pay in £200 a month [not enough to be seen to be paying for him]. However, all bills & rent are in both our names, but I pay from my account. If I take him off the bills, I may risk his right to stay in the country, and don;t want to do this unless things really have broken down irrevocably, and even then if it was amicable, I'd want to thoroughly research whether he'd be able to stay on other grounds before I did something so drastic [if not for dh, for ds, as he'd not be able to meet his dad if dh had to go back to this particular country, too dangerous to visit and virtually impossible for dh to leave again if he went back]. So had been trying to be responsible and 'adult' about the whole thing, but am scared this leaves me open to losing my baby to him - my baby is he only thing worth living for at the moment, and i am doing everything for him, so I just cannot cannot cannot run the risk of losing him.

soooo - based on all this, should I be worried?

Haven't we had this exact post before ? It's very familiar.

Does your baby have a passport? If not you should apply for one now and keep it at a friends house

That way you will. Know that your dh cannot apply for one without your knowledge and take your baby abroad

thanks for all the replies. I did such a crap job at keeping the other thing anonymous didn't i, I guess i shouldn't post when am so tired. Anyway, I suppose it has helped with peoples advice.

If you don;t mind, I will try and post on the other issue with the other name and keep it that way for the time being.

I do need specialist advice on all this i think, any clue where to get that?

atswimtwolengths I would be homeless as I couldn;t afford the rent, and although I dont know how housing benefit works, am sure it wouldn't cover this rent [extortionate for tiny 1 bed flat, as have to be near work to have a hope of being able to function].

I think its doubtful that bank would change way of paying back money, have heard they are not that willing to do this anymore [?]. Ideally i wanted to have a year of horribleness, and just keep afloat and then everything gets better next march [not this one coming, the one after] when the biggest loan is paid off. I don't know if I have the strength to do this though, especially if its going to get me into problems w custody/ residency.

So plan of action:
Put the other thing on record [gp], get & hide passport [thanks for reminding me kristinaM], and then breathe and think again.

swissmiss just started anti-ds and prescription pain meds, waiting for physio & also a scan. so hoping they are going to help a bit.

I think - and i may be wrong and need to change mind again, but the main thing i need to do is buy myself time to get myself out of the financial hole i have got myself in. So trying to get things more stable with dh would be a good thing.

Thinking rationally [hard to do at the moment], I think he wouldn't actually want custody, as its his worst nightmare having to look after ds in the week, and he hates the fact that he's having to do it. He's talked about it holding him back from getting a job and therefore being able to be a 'proper father' to ds, so maybe I am just panicking.

I think maybe reassuring him that I am not going to take his son away may help. If it doesn't then I have to do something more drastic i know. But i'd rather try little steps first. If he's not freaking out that he might not see ds again, then he's not likely to want to pursue a formal separation/ divorce/ child residency arrangement, which gives me more time to earn some money and get a bit more debt paid back.

Every month I get to pay off a bit of debt is a month closer to being independent and able to not need dh at all.

The illness thing is a different matter, I will have to see if i can manage work or not, i really don't know til i go back. gp said she would sign me off sick if i wanted, but that would put me in a vulnerable position employment wise, so would rather try and manage somehow. Not sure how realistic it is, but i guess i wont know until i try.

mamatomany I was just going to write that its horrible that someone else is going through something similar, when it occurred to me that actually, it may be another post that I wrote some weeks ago that is ringing bells for you.

I posted about my situation before, but it was when I was still trying to make things worse, and more about my state of mind as well. It was before dh moved out, and before I panicked about the legal side of things... before everything went so critical I guess. Whatever was going on, until last night I always assumed I'd have the law on my side to protect me, and has come as a horrible shock to know that I may not.

Hope it was that and not someone else, cos i feel crap and don't like the idea of anyone else going through it too.

Kinda skimmed thread cos I've gotta go do some stuff, but think I can give you some advice from pov of someone who's been / still in a not too dissimilar position.

His visa - don't worry about it. He now has a UK born child. Highly unlikely he'll be sent back to war-torn home nation - he'd have to start committing some very serious crimes for that to be a possibility. And his visa is not your problem anyway.

DS being sent by him back to his country of origin. If your DS has a passport, put it somewhere very safe - ie trusted family member. Then write to the passport office giving them outline of situation, and to his country's embassy to request that any visas / travel document applications for DS are notified to you.

What you set up now is likely to be how things will pan out for the future - courts like to keep things stable. So put in place how you'd like things to be.

Are you part of a union at work? It may well be worth applying to them to see if there's anything they'll help you with financially.

I don't agree that having a UK born child will keep him hrre. I work with immigration detainees & have seen more than a few deported despite UK children. Occasionally the child has been deported with them, but I've only seen that happen when they have been returned with their mother ie UK born father remains. What is more likely to keep him here is the state of his country of origin & his original asylum claim (if one was made). However I am not an immigration lawyer.

I am very concerned for you due to your thinking process!

Right if your ex goes to the courts, and gets residency and you return to work, you do realise he will get all child tax credits, all child benefit, child allowance, he will get income support, housing benefit and you will have to pay csa 15% of your salary to contribute towads his benefits....

better you have it than him!

Just on the legal issue, please get specialist advice from immigration lawyer. I have dabbled a bit, but enough to know that if he is the primary carer of the child then your agreement is irrelevant to whether or not child leaves country with him if he is forced to go. UK immigration policy trumps Article 8 rights to family life every time I am afraid. You would urgently need to get specialist advice if this situation arises but please DO NOT simply assume that as you are a British citizen everything is ok.

The UK routinely removes children who are British citizens and keep no records of where they go or what happens to them.

That's ok I think, as UK cannot currently deport back to this country, and the courts would be mad to give a baby to a man in a detention centre just because he looked after his son but didn't even live with his son surely?

I think human rights activists would have a field day if this happened [the uk is already on shakey ground re this country anyway]... can't say more as dnt want to be more identifable "{_

who would tell the human rights activists if it happened, you?

back again.

Reunite is an excellent source of advice and guidance wrt safeguarding your DS staying in the UK.

And they're free

Given that you're having an awful lot of stress right now, I'd strongly suggest you get signed off (as per another MNer's advice earlier) so that you can have some space and time to think about things, as well as to get some good advice about it all.

Consumer Credit Counselling Service is another good, free source of info regarding debts etc.

Unless you have a mortgage or hope to have one in the next 6 years, I really wouldn't get overly worried about having to become bankrupt. It's not great, and obviously should be seen as the last resort, but it won't destroy you either. And after six years, it will be gone from your credit file.

Quick clarification - it is not enough to get a passport and hide it - your DH could still legally apply for one stating the original is lost. As lost means out of sight, that includes "it has been hidden from me".

So when you get one, write to them and tell them what you are doing. I did, and they wrote a pleasant reply to the effect that they noted my letter and would do all they could not to issue a passport without checking with me.

Once I sent them a copy of the prohibitive steps order, they replied to the effect that the info would stay on file until my DD turns 18.

Kids are not prizes. They deserve both parents - not to be victims of the moronic, wicked and venal `winner takes all' attitude that passes for post-relationship parenting in this country.

It is in a child's best interests to spend a meaningful amount of time with both parents.

A lot of people here are going to shoot me down in flames for daring to submit this post, but the truth is that there is no reason you can't both work, can't both raise your child.

As for all you lot advocating the OP giving up work to prevent paying maintenance...you really have no sense of irony, seeing as there is so much bitching about irresponsible fathers avoiding paying maintence.

AisieSusie - talk to him. Talk, talk, talk. Avoid court. Go to mediation, find out what he is prepared to do and tell him what you are. Google NFM, join Families Need Fathers. Do anything you can to avoid court - believe me, there is nothing so damaging as a court case. No, really.

Your kids deserves his or her mum and dad working together for their benefit - not fighting.

lostdad - not your fault, you are only seeing part of the story here, so not going to shoot you down in flames but there is so much more to this than appears on this thread.

i dont know the background story of OP, but have skimmed this thread and i think you have wrong end of the stick lostdad

nobody is suggesting she give up work to avoid paying maintanance, one poster suggested she give up her bareer to become the primary carer as to avoid losing custody of her child

opps career

I too think you should make yourself the main carer of your child immediately. Your dh, when he was angry, threatened to take your child and send him to his family in a war-torn country. I'm afraid that even though he apologised, it will rear its ugly head again in another argument, and the risk is too great not to be taken seriously.

I live in Turkey, and when couples split up, the man very often takes the child and sends it to live with his family even though they may be hundreds of miles away on the other side of the country and the child may not really know them. It's not that he particularly WANTS the child (hence he can't actually be bothered to look after it himself) - it's that he wants to hurt the woman.

From your descriptions of your dh, he sounds as though his culture may be similar?

Also apply for a passport for your child and hide it, as one of the previous posters said - so that your dh can't.

Local authorities have a maximum rate of housing benefit they will pay in any given area, based loosely on the average market rent in that area. If you call them up they will tell you how much that sum is ( in my experience, always a bit less than you could ever hope to find a property for, but still, it does cover most of the rent!).

It depends how much you are earning as to how much housing benefit you will receive. If you are not earning at all, you should receive full whack, and with a baby you are entitled to claim housing benefit for a 2-bedroomed house/ flat.

The state says that with a baby, you should have a minimum of £150-odd a week to live on, and then get housing benefit on top. However, they don't take any debts you may be paying into consideration when calculating this (fair enough, you could say!).

So, you will NOT be homeless, and you and your baby will NOT starve, whatever happens. I would consider getting yourself and your child into a stable and safe position possibly more important than servicing your debts, especially if whoever you owe to is unsympathetic about helping you out with a long-term payment plan.

I'm still smarting from my bank's refusal to consider a payment holiday or restructuring on my 7-year loan, after 4 years of not missing a single repayment, after I explained to them that I'd just had a baby. I didn't default, but I was strongly tempted....

Lostdad, this man is violent therefor his wishes are irrelevant.

SGB - his wishes are relevant.

It could be argued that they shouldn't be, and I'd happily help argue for that, but from a legal perspective and from the perspective of any other agencies (eg Social Services / CAFCASS), the father's wishes will be taken into account.

It is more about whether or not he can be and wants to be involved in his child's life.

And to echo lostdad, it is best for all concerned to try all that you can before the final option of court action.

Court action polarizes and sets people against each other to the detriment of everyone, especially the child(ren).

However.

In cases where there are MH or DV issues, and this has both, then things will be difficult. They already are difficult. And everything needs to be as controlled and clear as possible.

Thus court action looks to be sadly inevitable, so back to my original advice to AisieSusie - set things up as you would wish them to be for the future.

And what maledetta re money & debts.

i would not leave my baby alone with this man. really - how can you be sure it wont be your child he harms next?

problem psoting here without teh abckground story is that people are taking it as two "normal"people - once there has been domestic violence it starts from a different perspective....

you dont have to be involved with this man, he has lost his "right" for support and your money by his behaviour...

i work full time always have and supported my ex when he left his work, cared for the dc full time - then had a major breakdowna nd became violent... once he had crossed a line and it was documented eg police social workers my counsellor - i had everyone supporting me to leave with the dc, carry on working ANd have them in childcare after school - the fact he had been primary carer went out of the window because of his behaviour.

look - if you thought he was a reasonable man etc then him having residency woud not be such a big deal would it?

but there are too many other things going on here...

talk thru with womens aid. please.

there are other people who can help you - you have the right not to be in your home wiht someone who may snap at any time...however much you "provoke" him.

and you need to be in a situation where you not around someone you might "provoke" -it isnt healthy is it?

do you have documented his MH/DV issues?

you need to.

then the issue of who has residence is a very different scenario...

you need to tell your friend and anyone else in RL health vistor etc. seek the support you need. dont go back to work til you ready physically, you can put it off a while anyway.

I'm based in London too OP and have read your other thread. I am currently off work for two weeks so if you need help with anything just inbox me. I really mean that as I am concerned for you

Ju Dad, been to the court thing also, could not agree more with you to avoid it!

I have also been married to a an abusive man who I think has npd, sometimes children are better off away from parents like that as sad as it makes me and them!

I do think there are loads of healthy people who manage to be very adult and do a good job of joint parenting after seperation, it is only a minority that go to court. Two out of every three parents who part still have contact with fathers after seperation, so most families manage it!

Re threat to take ds away:

1. Contact Reunite's helpline: 01162 556 234
   www.reunite.org ask for a prevention pack. They will advise you.

2. Explore Prohibited steps order and residence orders. (Mention everything inc abuse.)You can get these forms from the court and do this yourself if you need to.

3)Hide ds passport and birth cert. pref out of home.

4. But do allow him supervised access and stay in contact with his family if you can.

Re debts:

1. Go and see single parent advisor at jobcentre and ask what income support and housing benefits / mortgage interest payments you are entitled to if you give up work.

2)Contact your mortgage company and tell them you are in financial difficulties and ask to transfer to an interest only mortgage.

3)Make an appointment with the consumer credit counselling service (govt backed). They will do a budget and make an affordable repayment plan. And may be able to get charges frozen. See if you can freeze repayments and keep working whilst paying childcare. (BUT if you put ds in childcare check with family lawyer first).

4)Claim for council tax benefit.

Go for counselling to heal yourself from the abuse. Encourage him to go for trauma counselling if he is a refugee then there are a few organisations in London who could help him. (there are probably more here's one to get you started: www.helenbamber.org/OurPurpose.html

Remember this is a temporary situation.

Forgive him because he has been through a rough time, and it is difficult for people who have not been in a war-torn situation to understand, and because your ds will benefit from knowing his father. Make sure he knows where to ask for advice, develop your boundaries, show him love but protect your ds. I applaud your compassion, but you need to redirect the focus of this to your ds. Hope it helps.

Don't know about the other stuff but try a family lawyer (you can get legal aid on income support).