Currently pregnant, on good terms with father to be, not sure how to broach the subject of child support....please help!

[LucyLouLou]

I'm currently pregant with mine and the father to be's first child. We are not in a relationship together (please don't judge me, I've had all that in the Real World already!) but we are on excellent terms. We've known each other for years (went to school together), had a brief fling, now having a baby together. Trust me, wasn't planned this way, but our daughter is very much wanted by both of us and we are quite happy with the situation, however unconventional it sounds! Anyway, that's the background of 'us'!

We both work (he is a teacher, I work in the NHS) although I work part time and will go back to part time after maternity leave. We are splitting the cost of all the baby equipment 50/50, he will be at the birth and take us both home afterwards (I will be living alone with our daughter, he lives five minutes down the road and will be visiting several times a week), we can and do talk about anything and everything to do with the baby, but the one thing I am having trouble bringing up is child support.

I don't know how to start talking about it! I've always been terribly self-sufficiant and I don't like taking money from anyone, although I know that this isn't taking money from him per se, but that's what it feels like. I don't feel like I will be a single parent because we are on very good terms, but it will be me meeting the costs of the everyday stuff because I will be living with our daughter. We have briefly mentioned money in the past, but figures have never been talked about and I now am at a loss to know what to say. It will be an informal agreement between the father and I and will not be through the CSA or any channels like that.

How do I bring it up? What is a reasonable amount for the father to pay? Is anyone in a similar position as me and willing to tell me how much child support they get?

Didn't want to ignore you but I don't know. Money is awkward to talk about but I think you have to get over how you feel about taking money from him (or the benefits system or tax credits or whatever help you're entitled to) because you and your baby are likely to have a better quality of life if you are able to accept all the help going.
You can look at the CSA website and they will work out what he would be made to pay if you were going down that route, use that as a minimum and go up from there? If you don't want to take much money from him,could you agree to a sum that you're happy with and set up a savings account for the baby an suggest he put any extra there?

I would say though, don't underestimate how much you will be paying out on a daily basis. It may seem that he's paying a good chunk of his salary but you'll be paying a bigger whack of yours in my experience, just because you have your baby everyday.

Thanks for your response Tippychoocks. I think with benefits, I will probably only be entitled to some form of tax credits and child benefit. Although perhaps housing benefit and council tax benefit would be applicable, not sure as I've never claimed before. I will look into it.

I'm not sure why I have such a problem with talking about money. It's really strange, I'll happily talk about all the bodily functions that go along with the pregnancy with the father, but this is where I find an issue?! It's not even as if the father would respond badly. He's a really good person. He does earn a lot more than I do and he doesn't have many overheads, and he's been more than happy to split the costs with me thus far, but child support feels like him giving me handouts and I guess I'm just uncomfortable with that. I know that's not really how it is, but money is a bit of a touchy subject I think. I've just always been independant and supported myself, this is going to be a huge change for me!

I just looked at the CSA website (thanks for that advice!) but the calculator part is down at the moment, so I'll check it tomorrow hopefully. I also quite like the idea of savings, I feel better about doing that because it would go towards our daughter's future.

I would be happy for the father to contribute a smaller set amount if he was to help more with day to day costs (though I think this will be more relevant when our daughter is at school, with trips and clubs etc) but I'm not sure if that would be too complicated to sort out.

Any advice on how to raise the subject? Maybe I should slip it into a conversation about discharge and mucus plugs....or would that be too random?

I would say 15% of your baby's dads wages and that is net not gross

have you thought about how many nights per week your daughter is going to spend with her dad? if it is say three nights with dad and four nights with yo or visa versa - then money doesn't need to exchange hands

Initially at least, she will spend every night with me, although her father can sleep in the house one or two nights a week if he wants to, I'm happy for him to do that, I think it would be good if that happened until she is able to go with him. In the longer term, we have talked about her spending perhaps two nights with her father a week, this is mainly because he works full time and I don't, so him having her during the week would be much harder than me. She will definitely be spending the majority of the week with me, whatever the balance turns out to be, that's something we have already decided on.

15% of his net wages would work out at about £50 a week. Does that sound reasonable? I would be more than happy with that.

I appreciate the idea of a legal agreement, but I would really prefer to keep the arrangement informal because everything has gone smoothly so far. If he was ever to be awkward about care arrangements or money, this is a subject I would be willing to revisit, but we know each other quite well (have done for 15 years) and I honestly feel that I can trust him. I think I have a good guy here and that we can do the best thing for our daughter without involving the CSA etc. He has done nothing that makes me worried about money with him, this is just my hangups about relying on someone else I think!

You have me a bit worried now though! Do you think I'm doing the wrong thing by wanting to keep the arrangement 'between us'?

There's nothing to stop you putting an informal agreement in place now and going to the CSA later if things change and one of you feels hard done by. It sounds fine in this instance.

I would really like to give it a shot at working without involving other people. I would like to set a fixed amount of child support so we both know where we stand and see how it pans out. If he was to 'default' on it, that's probably when I'd involve official channels, so to speak. You make very valid points onedeadbadger and I appreciate everything you're saying. When I find a way to bring up money (!) I think I might mention the idea of sitting down with a lawyer to make things official and see how he responds to that. I really detest the idea of going through the CSA though, I would prefer to leave that as a last resort that I hopefully will never have to use. He's really a nice person, his parents are also lovely and very supportive and looking forward to their granddaughter's birth (as are mine ), so I think they'd kick his ass if he stepped out of line!

What you can do, if you don't want to accept money, is something like agree that he will buy all the nappies, or pay towards nursery fees if you are going back to work, or buy clothes (although I don't think I'd want to give that bit up TBH!) or perhaps open a savings account for her which he contributes a set amount into and you don't touch until she is 18/unless you are in severe financial trouble. Something which isn't necessarily money direct to you but still contributes to the cost of her upbringing.

This is an option suggested by Child Maintenence Options - they have a form on their website you can download or they will send you a copy in the post (give them a ring, they are really lovely and helpful and nothing to do with the CSA, they just give advice they don't set anything up) which you can set out the agreement with the father so that you have a copy on paper.

Lucy: the father of my DS is an old drinking buddy who was not my partner at the time of conception. Our DS is now 5.9 and thriving, his dad (is in fact asleep in the front room as missed the last train home tonight) is very involved with his life. He gives me about 60 quid a week towards DS upkeep and that works out fine. He has just got a fab new job and is saying he will up the payments when his fab new salary kicks in ...
The best way to deal with it probably is to work it out via the CSA website and talk to him in terms of what it says on there and can the two of you work out an agreement? If he's the good bloke he sounds, he will be fine with it.
I basically just wanted to reassure you that a co-parenting situation can be wonderful - ours works and hopefully yours will too.

Sorry I disappeared without replying last night, was so tired I forgot !

BertieBotts - I quite like your idea, but we're not going to do the nursery thing, at least not until actual nursery anyway (two sets of grandparents who are tripping over themselves to care for the baby means we have an agreement in place already lol), so I think the easiest way is for him to pay a set amount of CS and for me to perhaps put a portion of it in a savings account for our baby. Still don't know how to raise the subject, but I'm pretty sure that will be the right way for us. I'm going to look at that website anyway though, good to have all ideas in mind I think! Thank you .

SolidGoldBrass - thank you . It sounds like your situation is very similar to mine. I want to keep things as informal as possible, I guess because we know each other fairly well and I do feel like I can trust him. As I said before, I don't feel like a single parent even though I'm not in a relationship (Does that sound mad? Can't think of a better way to put it lol) so I don't really want to do much to change that. The CSA calculator is still not working on the website so I will check that out when it's back. The 15% ivykaty44 quoted earlier sounds reasonable to me though, so I'm hoping we can figure something out around that mark. I definitely want to set aside a portion of that to save, it makes me feel better about accepting CS!

Just a question though (sorry to take up your time, but your experience could be very helpful!), what do you do about things like birthday parties and Christmas etc? I know we're looking way into the future, but do you pay for that kind of thing out of the CS, or does your DS's father pay extra towards it?

Lucy: It all kind of goes into the pot, really. DS gets presents from me, his dad and the doting GPs on both sides, and one or both sets of doting GPs usually bungs me some extra cash for a birthday treat or takes us all out somewhere.

THere is no reason at all why things shouldn't work out fine with you and your co-parent. The pair of you are friends, there is no bitterness about a break up and you each know each other is a nice person. The only possible difficulties might come if one or both of you takes up with a monogamist dipshit of a partner who sees the other co-parent as a threat and makes a nuisance of him/herself., but generally, reasonable nice people tire quickly of obsesive monogamists.

I have found that I do Christmas. Even to the point of buying presents to myself and giving them to Ex, to have him wrap them with DD so she can give me something. I do stockings and I do presents. He would give me more money if I asked (maybe I did, I forget) but he won't take on any of the buying or offer.

I would put it in writing, explain it by saying that you have PG brain and forget everything. Then offer him a copy and say "we could even get it done legally if you like" - almost as a joke. At least get it written down as you talk so thatyou have something, it won't be legally binding but in future arguments (which may happen, the fact that so many of us are single is testament to the fact that people do change and often not for the better!) it may twang his conscience. Can't hurt anyway.

SolidGoldBrass - I've thought about the potential future partner issue. I think maybe this is something I need to talk about with the dad. Not that we can necessarily do much about the unknown, but it would be good to talk about it. Even if we both meet fantastic people in the future, we would need to agree on when said fantastic people get to meet DD, so the subject is relevant I think (?).

Tippychooks - I think I would be a bit pissed off if I turned out to be handling that stuff alone. Does it bother you or do you prefer it that way? I can't see that happening with us, I think the dad will want to be involved in special occasions. He has taken a real interest in the pregnancy. He'll come round and have dinner with me and will take me out on date nights if he thinks I'm lonely. We're definitely not 'getting together' but he's been really wonderful. I hope this is a sign of things to come , friendship-wise!

I think I'm going to take your advice and get it all written down though. There can't be misunderstandings that way.

No, he's crap. Uses his job as an excuse - he has no time/works odd hours etc etc. I however only have a job, a degree course and a small to look after and find it all a piece of piss naturally. Actually, I suspect I secretly prefer it this way.

Things might be different now though, I'm basing this on past events. We got back together and have split again so maybe things will change this time. I don't really care - the advantage of having to do it all yourself is that you can be sure it is done and is done properly.

Your baby's Dad sounds very sweet, I'm sure it will be fine for you. In general, I wouldn't sweat the small stuff (have always wanted to say that): have a moan to friends but if he doesn't buy the right present/cake/sandwich it doesn't really matter.

Oh I hate when people make piss poor excuses when realy what they should say is "I can't be bothered". Whether or not you prefer it that way (and I can't say I blame you if you really do!), your ex is a shit for what he does. Fingers crossed for you that he does improve this time!

There's a chance I might be looking at this too pregnancy-brain-fuddled and things might not be as simple as I hope, it's just that the dad has been brilliant and I have no reason to doubt that will change. You're definitely right about the small stuff. As long as we can keep this little human alive, I think we're generally doing okay lol.

Can you sit down and get pen and paper and jot thingsdown together that you really want to set out for the future?

Like will you both get together on Chritmas eve and wake up in the same house - what will happen if you have gf or bf's will they just have to come along anyway and be made welcome

will you do the same sort of things for birthdays - agree on things and take turns decidng where to go or what to do?

You may find if you brouch the subject - bring the money up first and then branch onto other things - you may find that dad also has a few things he needs to get out in the open that he is worried about, like if you have a bf will he take over as dad?

Go and talk and keep talking and that way you will get these things out in the open and can sort them

best wishes with the rest of your pg

I think you're doing OK already, it seems you are establishing a really healthy way of doing things.

And yes, he is crap but I am a control freak so he may just find it easier not to get involved sometimes. I am trying to be aware of my own shortcomings!

ivykaty44 - good idea about making notes for the future, that could be a good way of bringing up CS actually . Christmas Eve is an interesting one. As it stands, I would be happy for him to stay in my house this Christmas because it would be our DD's first. I would say it would just be him though, I wouldn't be happy about anyone else being involved the first year. Subsequent years, that's something we will deal with as time goes by I guess. Birthdays are another good point, need to think about that myself then discuss I think.

Tippychoocks - you're allowed to be a control freak, you're a mum with a crappy ex, someone has to take charge ! And thank you for all your advice, I appreciate it so much!

Up until a couple of years ago, we would got to DS dad's parents on either Xmas Eve or Boxing Day and then DS and I would spend Xmas with my parents: now we alternate it. Neither DS dad nor I have partners - he has had a couple of flings, one of whom met DS (I had no problem with this, she was very nice and had DC of her own) one was a very short-lived fling, she lived miles away anyway. I wouldn't worry overmuch about other partners just yet, that has always struck me as one thing you only need to deal with when it happens.
Also just FYI DS dad often stays at our house as his flat is a tip not all that suitable for DS, so his dad comes and stops over when I am going for a night out.

SolidGoldBrass - it honestly sounds like you have an ideal situation there. I think DD's father and I still need to talk about a lot of things, most of which I would like to discuss before DD arrives.

We are quite lucky in that my family live a two minute walk away, and DD's father and his family live only a little further, all walking distance. I'm hoping this will make special occasions much easier for everyone .

As for the issue of future partners, you are totally right, I don't need to think about this at the moment. Thank you .