11-15 year old: how do zip oysters and annual passes for children work?

[ParentOfOne]

Children aged 11 to 15 can get an 11-15 zip oyster photocard https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/11-15-zip-oyster-photocard
which allows them to travel for free on trams and buses, and to get child pay as you go fares on tube, DLR and London overground.

My questions are:

• does this photocard work like a pay as you go adult oyster which you top up with a prepaid balance? Do you top it up online or at stations?
• is there such a thing as a monthly or annual pass for children? I have not been able to find any information anywhere. Or is the only option for kids this age to use this card as pay as you go?
• Can you use it as pay as you go on national rail services within London, too? Eg Clapham Junction to Victoria or Waterloo, Ealing to Paddington, etc? The websites of the train operators make no mention of that, but TfL's fare finder does https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finder

Thanks!

1. Yes
2. Not sure, but I bet the best people to ask are the newsagents/shops you top up in. I think they still get free bus travel so maybe they don't do passes like that?
3. Yes, bit be careful of the boundaries.

@spinet do your children use it? I find it very dodgy that the train operators websites don't mention that kids aged 5-10 can travel for free in London with the 5-10 zipcard, and don't mention that the 11-15 zipcard gives cheaper fares than the children fares on their websites!

Actually I just tried to top up my kid's Zipcard with a monthly pass and they charged me the adult price, so I guess they don't do it.

Yes my kids do use the trains as we live on a train line rather than tube. There was a big hoohah with the train companies about kids being free and accepting Zipcard and presumably they were made to do it which is why they don't advertise! I'm still not 100% convinced all train lines let kids under 10 go free because when my kids turned 11 only a few did (ours included). I think they do though.

You can top up online, or at ticket machines at stations.

Yes, you can buy travel cards if they use the train / tube a lot - bus and tram travel is free though

You can use it for pay as you go on trains where oyster works

@ParentOfOne yes the 5-10 card is a bit of a secret 😬
The 11-15 one you don't need to put any money on it if they are only going to be using buses and trams.
You do need to add money to it for all other transport. Top up at the station machines, pay points in shops or online.
Yes you can use it on regular trains (Southern etc) as long as you are only travelling in the London Zones.
And yes - the amount charged is often LESS than the advertised price. It's advertised as "half price" but my daughter only got charged 75p for one journey Zone 3 - 1 which is considerably less than half price.
I don't know about monthly/annual travel cards. Oyster Zip is priced capped daily (the same as regular ones).

@Spinet, the 5-10 zip photocard page https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/5-10-zip-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55572 has a map of the national rail services where the photocard lets kids travel free (national rail services map: https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/free-travel-areas-without-oyster-adult-accompanying-map.pdf ). When I first asked at the local train station ticket counter, they told me there was no way a 5 year old could travel for free. Lying ba !!!

@CatsLikeBoxes Do you mean that monthly and annual travelcards for kids exist? I couldn't find them. or do you mean that you can buy a monthly or annual travelcard for a child but at adult prices?

According to https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finder , with the 11-15 zip photocard, for a peak journey between zones 1-2, a child pays £0.95 (no changes) or £1.80 with a change (eg train + tube). So daily they could spend £1.80 in the morning and £0.90 to come back

An annual zones 1-2 travelcard is £1,700, so using daily pay as you go is still much cheaper for a child

Oddly, if I go to https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/caps-and-travelcard-prices and search for a 11-15 travelcard, it tells me that
"A Travelcard or pay as you go cap does not exist for your zone combination" but then it does show prices for monthly and annual travelcards!!???

It costs my DDs 90p to catch the train from Zone 6 to Zone 1 with theirs!

There was an option to add a travelcard when I was doing their balance top up, but its not an option we need.

One thing... you need to "claim" the top up by using it after you pay for it online, so don't do it too early. (A few days I think?)

Yes- the train prices vary for peak/off peak. The amount charged for my DSs journey home depended in which lesson he had last period and whether he had to wait for another bus if the first was full. If he managed to swipe in before 4 it was 75p, after 4 it was £1.15.

Sorry forgot to say you can top it up anywhere you can top up an oyster, including online. As tickingalong says you have to validate it at an oyster reader within a few days or it gets refunded.

It seems you can put an adult travelcard on an 11-15 but not a reduced rate one, because I've just tried it on my 15 yo's zip account and it only offered the adult one.

@TickingAlongNicely what do you mean "claim" the top up? If you top up oyster / zip cards with a pay as you go balance or travel card, you have to do it 30 mins before you need it but it stays on there until the card expires, so earlier is better.

@ParentOfOne I've never bought a travelcard for my children because they mainly use bus/tram, and I just ensure there is pay as you go credit on there for when they use the train/tube. But I just logged into the account and it has a travelcard option - I tried a 1 week zone 1-6 travelcard and it came up as £39 which is not an adult price.

On "claiming" the top up: before contactless with debit and credit cards was a thing, I seem to remember that, if you topped up your oyster online, you then had to touch in at a station within a certain period of time in order to activate the top up. Presumably something similar applies to topping up a 11-15 zip photocard?

Just found this https://content.tfl.gov.uk/11-15-zip-oyster-photocard-fares.pdf

Looks like they do discounted weekly travelcards but not monthly ones.

You definitely have to validate your top up within a few days if you top up online. I recently had one refunded because we didn't; very annoying (our fault obvs).

@ParentOfOne thats exactly what I mean... you have to use it for the first time within a few days of topping up online. I found my younger DDs balance was zero on Monday as she hadn't actually used the card since we got it at Easter, but I had put money on (and it had been refunded).

@spinet "Just found this https://content.tfl.gov.uk/11-15-zip-oyster-photocard-fares.pdf"

So basically they do travelcards for 11-15 year olds, but they are so much more expensive than using the pay as you go daily that they'll never be worth it

Plus, why is all this information so hidden???

@ParentOfOne pay as you go with the daily price cap is always meant to be cheaper than a travel card I think.
(both adults and 11-15)

God knows why it's all so hidden. What I imagine is the individual companies/ organisations that make up the TfL area give any discount so grudgingly that none of it makes sense.

There are other hidden discounts like if you have a young persons railcard and an Oystercard you can take it to a ticket office and they will give you 1/3 off off-peak pay as you go prices. Who knows what others there are?

Is there a way of seeing journey history for an 11-15 Zip card? I can see balance remaining online but not individual journey costs.

You can on the website. There's a section for journey history and you select which week you want to view. The info only updates the following day though. If you click on the actual journey it breaks it down into when/where you've tapped in and out.