Middle class areas around London

[Danini]

Having moved to UK from a country where 90% of the population is middle class I struggle in my search for the location of our next home. We are currently in Isleworth zone 4, close to both Richmond, Twickenham but also close to Brentford, Hounslow. DD is 2, and primaries here are rated good but I would like her to go to a mixed secondary, and the only good options around are girls schools.

Our main requirements are too feel at home culturally (European/English), good state schools, child friendly, safe and a bit more green, so considering commuter towns. Preferably good access to A40/M4.

Our budget is currently £400000, we are in a 2 bed flat with garden.

Any ideas of areas to consider?

You might struggle with the really posh areas in London at that price. Most of London is all on top of each other, unless you are in the ritziest areas you will see nice bits and not so nice bits wherever you are, often just a street away.

Sorry to say OP but if you can only afford £400k for a 2bed w/garden you can't afford to live in a middle class community especially not in west London
.

Closest area that might work for you is old Hanwell (W7) but you may struggle or have to compromise eg get a basement garden flat on a busier road in the area or something that's classed as a 2 bed but doesn't have a separate living room (ie the 2nd bedroom is the kitchen and they've combined the kitchen into a kitchen/dining/living room).

Alternatively with the increased interest rates you might get someone who's desperate to sell.

Failing that go south of the river or outside London eg petersham or Ruslip.

You are going to need to up your budget or move further out.

No middle class areas for you I'm afraid at that budget - yer gonna have to slum it!

You might have some luck in Cheam?

OP - as a fellow foreigner I would advise you to not use the term "middle class" as it means something different here vs other countries. Here it means something more like educated professional class but not upper class / aristocracy, so implies quite a "posh" sort of place - think more like doctors and lawyers than nurses and suburban bookkeepers! It took me a long time to realise this and caused a lot of confusion.

If you can up your budget a little bit, these flats come on the market now and again and are very popular. Ham is a very green area (river, Ham Lands, River Thames all nearby). Very good mixed sex secondary school...Grey Court. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/133781117#/?channel=RES_BUY

I agree with that definition. I'm also a foreigner and middle class means something completely different here than in my home country.

I don't live in London, I live in Birmingham.

I think even in Birmingham you can struggle to buy with 400000 pounds in areas that are entirely middle class and are considered premium.

OP how do you define middle class where you're from? Would be interesting to know and it might help identify other areas that you would be comfortable with.

I live in a commuter town which is pretty MC by uk standards but we do also have a fair bit of social housing, as every town will.

From what you write i think a commuter belt town would suit you better. Also, and I mean it to help you, your requirement to be culturally European/British is pretty racist, it implies not multicultural which most of london is. Be careful because it's quite offensive.

How interesting! I didn't know this, I wondered how 90% of a population could be middle class? How is Middle Class defined to you/ someone from outside the UK? Just very curious! Oh and I can't imagine 400k touches the middle classes of London.

I spent £392k on a 1930s 2 bed flat (with beautiful communal garden) in 2019. Its East Finchley and it hasn't increased in price. Its probably worth around £410k today.

I am pretty sure that it would be considered a middle class area if that sort of thing is important lol

90% of the population being middle class will only be achievable in private school.

It is absolutely not enough for a house in a middle class area which most British people prefer. However, there are many flats in middle class areas which are on the cheaper side as flats are not popular. In fact due to the supply crisis, flats in middle class areas are often not significantly more expensive than their counterparts in poorer areas. And if you are willing to move to the Home Counties where flats are even less popular (as most middle class londoners move there for a house), you could probably get quite a decent sized one for £400k.

Hampstead Garden Suburb, East Finchley, Kew Gardens, St Albans.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/130788485#/?channel=RES_BUY
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/136985558#/?channel=RES_BUY
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/135506510#/?channel=RES_BUY
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/132215633#/?channel=RES_BUY

I was on a 400k budget too for a 2 bed flat for my first flat in 2019 too. DH only wanted to stay in north london and in areas like highgate,east finchley, muswell hill, hampstead garden suburb. We actually did manage find a 2 bed flat in muswell hill for £385k but second bedroom was tiny. We did manage to find a decent 2 bed flat for £400k. it is a little small (hence why we are looking for a 3 bed flat if we can get a good one) but we would be happy even if we didn't move.

You will need to have a communal garden though and not too near the station. My main priority was that the freehold needed to be owned by the residents rather than the garden though so that was my main compromise.

Same here! Although I was upper upper where I'm from and don't necessarily fit within the British MC either (but I'm definitely not UMC over here).

I think most people would agree areas like St Alban's are middle class and she can definitely get a flat for that budget in st Alban's. In London zone 3 I agree it's tricky but I got a very small 2 bed flat in zone 3 north London and I think it would be considered middle class..I mean the houses here are definitely occupied by middle class people nowadays as they are over a million. But my area is 63% flats according to the census

In many (most?) countries 'middle class' and 'middle income' are synonymous. So for example in the US it means households with between 60% and 200% of the median household income in a particular area. In very egalitarian countries, such as the Nordic countries, it's quite possible for 90% of the population to be middle class by this defintion, as there are few very rich and very poor people.

Thanks everyone for your input!

We are currently in a 2 bed in a basement flat with patio and communal garden - pretty spot on suggestions

Middle class where I'm from (Scandinavia) is pretty much uni educated, with a standard office job. Neither posh or the opposite - in the middle basically.

We would like to move outside yes, to a commuter town on the west side, preferably within M25, but could be outside M25 too.

In regards to the culture thing, we are currently in a very multicultural area, which I really enjoy (and we're foreigners ourselves!) However I don't want us to be the odd one out in an area in regards to lifestyle, or finances! Hence we don't want it too posh either 🙂 I'd like to avoid deprived areas and since I know our budget is tight I would like to know where to look.

@lavender2023 people with toddlers don't usually want communal gardens. Tbf, post post Covid private garden however small are a major selling point over a large communal garden at least in my experience as a seller

Yes, this is more or less what it means in Australia (not sure of the exact percentages).

Middle class means middle-income, "normal" families with jobs like nurse, skilled trade, standard office job, just normal everyday people who have a stable income and getting by with a mortgage kind of thing.

We would say upper-middle class for professional-managerial class, like doctors, lawyers, high finance etc. So basically what British people call middle class.

Not sure anyone in Australia is really upper class 😂

I guess some people would call themselves working class but maybe more like factory workers, labourers, unionized workers where the cultural aspect of being "labour" and "union" are important. Whereas I feel like in the UK everyone seems to call themselves working class.

We also don't have the weird category of "middle class because your family was and you went to Oxford but you are an impoverished writer and have no money", it is cash cash cash😂

Try Sidcup, great schools and it is starting to become multicultural

Well her budget isn't huge and if her main priority is the area, then it may be that the private garden aspect is the one to compromise on. plus she doesn't have a private garden now.

Well that's not going to suit OP at all, is it? Since she only wants to mix with white people.

I get that you might not want to live in a culturally homogenous area, of which there are a lot in London. One of my best mates went to an area that was mostly Sikh people, everyone knew each other, went to the same Sikh school, etc etc. Similarly Harrow is mostly Indian. You wouldn't want to be one of a few'non-Indian' kids.

At the same time stating that you only want Europeans/English is racist not only in its implication that you don't want to mix with any minorities but also 'Europeans' covers such a large number of cultures, 'culturally European' is meaningless. If for example you're using 'european' as shorthand for 'modern and liberal' there are plenty of 'Europeans' who are more religious and conservative... and non-white people who aren't,