Perse-prep / St. Faith's / King's / St. John's

[TheCamParent]

Hello,

We are considering our DD to go to one of the three private schools for Year3 - Perse prep, St. Faith's and King's in Cambridge.

I have analysed these as the main differences of these three schools
Perse: Highly academic, good on sports, 23 children in a class, 3 forms, Specialist teachers from Y3.
St. Faiths: Good on sports and engineering, 18 children in a class, 4 forms, Specialist teachers from Y5.
King's: Musical, 18-20 children in a class, 4 forms, Specialist teachers from Y5

I am a bit puzzled about what will be the right school for her. I have many questions. Is St. Faith's too much about sports? Is St Faith's academics at par with Perse? How is King's for academics and sports?

Is there too much competition in Perse, among pupils (or parents) ? Are 23 children in a class, sometimes too many?

I have learnt St. John's is a great school, too.

I would love to hear experiences of these schools. Thanks !

My DS left St Faith's at the end of Yr 4. Back then quite a lot of subjects had a specialist teacher from Yr 3. In Pre Prep (yrs Reception-Yr 2 a few subjects did).

Our experience started with a Head teacher who we rated but he retired and there was a different Head from 2011-2021. It would be my hope that there would now be a general improvement in the areas we found lacking now that there is a new Head from 2021

Regarding Sport - it was 3 sessions per week in Yrs 3 and 4. I think that's one too many, but independent schools often follow this model. The sport was highly competitive featuring contact Rugby from Yr 4.

Assessment was measured by giving Effort and Attainment grades in English, Maths, Science and Sport. This was a fairly rudimentary system of recording progress that was less sophisticated than that used in the state primary my DS attended in Yrs 5 and 6.

Curriculum - Parents with older children provided the knowledge that their older children had been taught the exact same stuff as much as a decade earlier. It was really stale and uninspiring by the time it reached us. I'd like to think it must have changed by now.

Maths: In the parents newsletter the standard of Maths being taught was frequently praised and benchmarked with reports of achievements in competitions. In Yrs 3 and 4 Maths wasn't taught well and my DS had to study hard to come up to the standards expected for SATs after he left.

Classroom assistants : were mostly PE assistants who helped a bit in the classroom in yrs 3 and 4 and there was no cover from Yr5 up.

Class size: 18 in Prep Yrs 3 and 4 and as many as 20 from Yr 5. I think that may have changed. At the end of our Yr4 class, there were 5 fewer students than we started with at the beginning of Yr 4. So we were not the only ones who felt the need to move on.

Independence - is the be all and end all goal of Yrs3 and 4. Children are expected to acquire the skill set needed aged 11 when they are 7/8 yr olds. About 70% can't get close and it's very stressful for them and the parents. School shouldn't be about unnecessary stress. Praise is heaped on those who can move around a big school without fear or getting lost, carry a backbreaking PE bag without complaint, tie a tie, be very compliant.

I just hope it's changed for the better now. However, I'm sure you will understand that I have to give an honest picture of a setting that was not at all suitable for us and - by definition - a disaster for a sensitive, intelligent but non sporty child.

Thank you @mastertomsmum, for a detailed feedback.
It gives me impression that there is no strong point except sports.
Today, they claim to be innovative, future-focused and academic, too. Is it the same story you had heard before?
Do you know how much they cater to the individuality of the child? If they don't have resources (like PE assistants working as TAs), then it is not possible.

I have friends with children at each of the schools on your list op (we have 3 currently at St Faiths). I would say that they are all quite different in their own way and I’m a big believer in different schools suiting different children.

That said, my children are quite different in terms of their academic abilities and they are all thriving at St Faiths. They set for all academic subjects from year 5 and we feel this worked well for the two that have been set already. Our academic child is pushed academically and encouraged to stretch themselves further with additional activities and extracurricular activities including orchestra, chess and maths competitions. Our less academic child was given timetabled and very targeted support from the very friendly learning support team and we were very happy with the fast progress they made. The staff went out of their way to find the things our child naturally thrived at to encourage their self confidence.

I have found the pastoral support very strong. I would occasionally have an email or phone call if a child was a bit subdued during lessons for example. Genuinely felt as though they really cared about each child and despite the fact the school is large, I feel they know each child and their strengths and weaknesses incredibly well.

What I would say is that after joining the school from a previous pre-prep, all of my children settled well within the first week and have made a lot of really good friends. I would (and do) recommend the school when asked about it but do appreciate that different schools work for different children. I wish you the very best in finding a school op.

Sounds like St Faiths has improved. The learning support lead is definitely a different person.

Regarding orchestra etc - when we were there the music groups were by invitation only. Hope that’s changed.

Thank you @Marvellouspeonies.
It seems like a very different school now.

I am glad to know they stretch able children, while try to the find what children are best at. Pastoral support was my biggest concern. From your experience, it feels right for me.

These days, they take pride in their engineering curriculum. Would you please provide some more information about it ?
And, how good is the balance between academics and sports/drama etc ?
My DD is already learning music from an independent teacher, so she will hopefully love more exposure. But, sadly, pandemic hasn't allowed her do much sports !

@Marvellouspeonies, also, St Faith's has a new headteacher. Do you think there is any change since his arrival?

@TheCamParent I think it’s a little early to see any major changes with the head as he’s only been here a term however my children have chatted to him frequently around school. My children enjoy the engineering lessons and they seem to cover a variety of topics. There is also the opportunity to join Green Goblins from year 5 which involves designing and driving go karts. Seems a very popular option although mine don’t do it:)

With regards to sports; I wouldn’t worry too much. There is a significant intake in year 3 and all children will have had varying exposure to sport over the pandemic:) Sports teaching at St Faiths seems really good and there is the opportunity to do extra sports after school or on a Saturday morning if the children wish to. Have you had chance to look around the school yet?

Green Goblin was introduced by the Head who left in 2011

Sorry to have to say this but the Yrs 3-8 Head of Pastoral Care is the same person who was in charge of this when my son was there. I was very unimpressed with him.

I have a child at king’s and know children and parents at other schools you mention. I’ve looked around them all in recent years. King’s is no more musical than the others and most likely all orchestras are invitation only at every school, with different orchestras for children at different standards of playing. Perse and St. faith’s probably have the sporting edge but all the schools regularly play each other and sport seems strong at king’s - plenty of sporty children and a huge new sports’ hall. Three form entry at year 3 at king’s, 16-18 pupils per form. Academics at king’s stronger than john’s and many go onto perse upper from king’s. Perse is the most academically pressured with children asked to find a tutor outside of school if necessary to keep up. King’s is boy heavy in some (but not all) years. Also look at transport, parking, length of school day, homework policy etc.

Regarding ‘invitation only’ - in our experience state schools will do much more to ensure children can join in and the individual instrument teaching we have had from Cambridgeshire Music has been superb.

To clarify, they try to accommodate every child learning an instrument in an ensemble/orchestra but the director of music will invite children to the ensemble appropriate to their level, rather than the child choosing. For example, there will be ensembles for beginners and more advanced ensembles for children who have more experience. I assume this is similar to Cambridgeshire music. We have children both at private and state schools, all participating in musical activities with other children.

Thank you @butternut1, for the feedback. It is good to learn about King's, as we have offer from them :)

Hi @Marvellouspeonies,

Could you please provide me some information about about St Faith's ?

Is there a good music environment among students? Do they organise concerts/ensembles etc, and also allow school children who are being trained by external teacher, to participate ?

I understand King's is very muscial. How would St Faiths (or Perse) compare with it in music ?
St Faiths has a reputation of more sporty school. Does this mean academics, literature and music are not celebrated so much.
I got such an impression from the newsletters - www.stfaiths.co.uk/news-media/headmasters-newsletter/#lent-term-2022, which highly appreciates sporting results, but rarely found anything about music or literature.

Also, because it's a prep school that goes till year 8, does the emphasis on academics increase in 7/8th year and not so much till year 6? We are not sure what will be the right senior school for my DD - may be perse-upper, or may be a renowned school outside Cambridge. Does the school help with right level of preparation for common entrance at y8 ?

Thanks in advance !

Hi @butternut1,
We are in dilemma between King's and St. Faiths.

Seems like you have comparisons of these two in terms of arts, literature, music etc. I will be very grateful if you can share more details.

King's is a bit far from us, compared to St. Faiths, too.

I have DC3 at KCS, and two older DC gone through Perse Upper. All three started at a state primary and joined senior school at yr 7.

KCS strikes me as very good pastorally and quite capable academically; specialist teachers for most subjects although sciences are lumped together in one timetable block, so a bit under powered. OTOH there are separate CS and Design / Tech classes so STEM isn't left out.

Pastoral care is switched on: DC3 has a few kinks and had quite a jump from their state school, but KCS had spotted the issues very swiftly and were proactive in providing support and liaising with us. DC3 is now loving it and thriving there.

I'm not the best person to ask as our family are not musical, but I think KCS is probably less musical than you might think: there is a lot of opportunity to do music but not as much breadth musically as at Perse Upper. This may simply reflect the fact there are more children (and older) at Perse Upper of course!

Sports seem well catered for: teams are well coached, they enjoy their sport (whatever level they're learning at) and are reasonably competitive in the small world of Cambridge U12 hockey / rugby / netball / cricket.

Things to think about: it has a very long school day: 8.30 - 4.30 for yr 6 (clubs bring that up to 8.30 - 5.30). And my yr 6 DC3 gets nearly 2 x the homework of my yr 10 DC2 at Perse Upper! But I can't speak for the workload in the lower parts of the school.

So overall I would say it's a friendly and supportive school, with high expectations of the children, but not particularly slanted in any one direction.

Oh, and a particular strength for DC3 has been the opportunity to explore and deepen their art, design and creativity, both in formal classes and in art club. Teaching on that has really hit the button.

Thanks @gizmo for a detailed reply.
Good to see your children are thriving in all these settings.
About Kings, does your child learn any musical instrument (or required to learn any) at school? And, does the musical environment help overall in inspiring a child to learn a thing or two?
Do they mandate children to do private instrument lessons within school ? I suppose their staff will be the experts in those fields.
I read from the website that they have in-house coaches for individual sports (squash and tennis) too. That seems to be a bonus.

8:30-4:30 is a really long day. Is it including the free after-school club?
Is it because of compulsory music curriculum that the day is longer?

I do have a musical child but many classmates don’t do much music and I don’t think it is a requirement to learn an instrument. Many certainly do and there are plenty of ensemble opportunities and concerts for those that do. I wouldn’t have thought this any different from any of the other independent schools tbh. Many instrumental music teachers work in a number of different schools. Obviously there are choristers who follow a musically enhanced timetable but that does not impact other pupils at all; there is now an auditioned girls’ choir for older girls. My understanding is that the long day is for academics/sports etc. with ensembles on a Monday afternoon only.

When we looked at st. Faith’s they were very keen to impress their STEM focus. On average I’d have thought KCS slightly more academic in focus. Can you take another look around both schools now you have both offers?

No, no pressure to add music on at all if you don't want to. Many kids do, there is quite a lot of chat about it, but DC3 has no music in their curricula at all, and I don't think they're unique.

Sorry I missed the age range for your DC, but 8.30 - 4.30 is the school day for a year 7. If your child does after school clubs then add on an extra hour, then you have to allow some time in the evening for prep / home work in addition. It is quite demanding!

Thanks @butternut1 and @gizmo, for very useful information !