Richmond Borough Schools Chat 8

[muminlondon2]

This thread follows on from Richmond Borough Schools Chat 7.

News and opinions on all the changes to schools in Richmond borough.

Sounds like the Director of Children's Services done an impressive job turning around social services in Kingston. Important job in Sunderland looking after the interests of vulnerable children there, too.

This is on the secondary education board, it looks as if for the first time they have not offered a secondary place to some parents on the Surrey side

"Yes I should also like to emphasise the importance of freeing up your state place ASAP. We have been shocked that so many in my DD's class received a letter saying they currently have no place and need to phone schools to remain on waitlist (and yet the Richmond and Twickenham Times reported last week that every child has a place which may be the Council's aim for September 1st but is not the case March 1st). Last year many kids were given Twickenham Academy which is on the total opposite end of the borough, but this year nothing at all! so please fee up your state place if you haven't already!"

Several Kew and Barnes, at least, parents have no offer of a secondary school place. Those in Barnes who listed RPA as a choice got in there but some who did not were not offered a place anywhere. In Kew the Christ's distance criteria stretched only to Windsor Road which leaves a lot of Kew outside the catchment for any borough state school though many had private school places as insurance.

I'm afraid that as a long term resident of the borough, Surrey side first half of life and Middlesex side second half, and with children going through the local schools, I echo Frustrated in thinking that the Council have long term bounced parents into private education quite cynically. A school governor/local councillor first jovially suggested that the private Putney & Barnes/Hammersmith schools would be my parents' best bet, as the grammar school (now RPA) closed down and the nearest secondary alternative was Christ's, which did NOT have a good reputation then, & to which none of my classmates went. So, plus ça change.
Great that the council are fulfilling their obligations to SEN children. Disheartening that there are still many children who need/want a decent community school and face stressful months waiting to hear if they have a place or not. Hugely annoyed that a faith school was prioritised over a community school.

Incidentally, I too do not believe that TH doesn't want children from Whitton. It was set up to serve the black hole. Whitton, for better or for worse, is NOT a black hole. If TH adjusted their admittance point before the move to Whitton was confirmed, likeliest outcome is that TH would be very oversubscribed and TA very undersubscribed. Can you imagine anything more destabilising, when new leadership is about to kick in?
TH have made it clear that admittance points would be recalculated for their eventual site, allowing them to be a community school whilst serving the black hole. The council is truly unbothered by the black hole.

You made a fair point about the lack of places on the Surrey side propitia but also put your finger on why a lot of the parents who can afford it choose private - because they're selective, like the old grammar school system, and even a good comprehensive could not offer what such schools might provide. Christ's, RPA and Grey Court are now all either as good as they have ever been or better, but even for those fully committed to comprehensive state education there are still areas on that side with patchy coverage even of one school.

As for the black hole on the Middlesex side, there's an 'inner' boys' shortage around Waldegrave and an outer but slightly more uneven shaped area where the other option is TA or HA,. What do you think the council could/should have done about Waldegrave, in the days before academies and when they could actually fix admissions policies like the link system? The Waldegrave catchment used to have 'quadrants' rather than Area A/B - I'm interested to know if that worked any better or fairer in the past?

Another point to make is that around Orleans Park up to Cresswell Road, they have no choice of Waldegrave. If it hadn't been doing as well as it is, it might have turned into another crisis point in terms of parents having a choice, like a Fulwell without Waldegrave.

In fact, Barnes and Kew etc. have always been like Fulwell without Waldegrave - haven't they? Most areas only have one obvious local school which may still be 3 miles away.

There is an Education Question Time next week at Richmond Adult College, Parkshot, Richmond with candidates for the SW London GLA seat (covering LB Richmond, Kingston & Hounslow). It's on Thursday 17th March at 6.30pm. Good chance to raise some of these issues!

Does the fact that some people were not offered any secondary school place mean that all the other schools have offered at least as many places as they have including the additional places they are offering at some schools? I remember one year not long ago some of them offered more places than they actually had?

I've just found this parliamentary debate from 1998 and the problems of school choice in the borough stemming from the Greenwich ruling and new obligations on primary class sizes. It might ring bells for the longer term residents but explain some past constraints even when LAs had the power (but not the money) to set up schools, and to modify admissions policies. Jenny Tonge made the comment:

'If the borough had the money or could find a site to do so, we could move all those schools and plonk them in the centre of the borough. Although doing so would solve the problem, it is not possible.'

I remember one year not long ago some of them offered more places than they actually had

In 2014 when RPA had a rise in demand, it offered 250 places. But it still ended up with only 180 in the class for the January census. That's a much bigger potential surplus/deficit/over-offer to juggle than any school on the Middlesex side.

If every school had an admissions point it would solve Jenny T's problem. Perhaps once people have got used to the newfangled idea Turing's policy will start a trend.

In that year all the schools over offered to some extent, the figures are back on the thread. Basically more places were offered in the first place which enabled the LEA to offer a place to everyone who applied, but then waiting lists did not move as quickly. Last year more places were made available at the oversubscribed community schools which caused waiting lists to move more than the previous year and RPA of course ended up with another class because the nature of it's demand had clearly changed.

It is hard to know if TA and HA were not offered to the Surrey side applicants because it caused such annoyance last year or because they are oversubscribed? In the last year there have been meetings with the governors in Kew and Barnes who were seeking and were apparently given assurances their black holes would be addressed and they are pretty disillusioned that there is more of the same this year. Hopefully waiting list places will materialise but it is a miserable experience for parents and children and has certainly meant some who would have accepted a place in a community state school have ended up taking the private school place they lined up as insurance because they are not prepared to have that uncertainty. Some of those people are going to struggle financially, not every family in the Surrey side has £15000 a year they can comfortably spare.

And in the past the pressure on places was so much less that girls were traveling to Waldegrave from each end of the borough. There used to be quite a group getting on the 33 all along the Upper Richmond Road from as far as East Sheen primary.

It is hard to know if TA and HA were not offered to the Surrey side applicants because it caused such annoyance last year or because they are oversubscribed

As you say, hard to know, but I guess the former - traveling to Hampton Academy is not at all feasible for someone in Barnes. RTS would not be ideal, but it's a direct train ride to Twickenham at least. I didn't expect that to be a popular route for StRR from Barnes, Mortlake, North Sheen or Richmond either (though a Catholic school supporter was very clear that it would be), but I've seen a lot of pupils use it and it's reverse direction from the rush hour congestion.

There are 50 extra places at RPA and Grey Court which will help this year. Apparently Kingston Academy got 600 applications over three preferences, which is higher than last year. That only works for Richmond when Grey Court is not the first or second choice of North Kingston pupils - they are closer on proximity than Richmond, North Sheen, Kew, etc.

I'm guessing a few of those in Kew and Barnes who might have chosen Chiswick School may now prefer to stay in-borough as it dropped an Ofsted grade recently. The Mortlake location would work well for a new secondary.

Massive congestion around Mortlake Brewery at 8am makes it unsuitable unless the school started later than most secondaries - ie at 9.30 - otherwise even often than now it would be complete gridlock - especially now that the railway gates are closed for longer periods.

The trouble is that every time any site for a school or extension of a school is proposed in this borough there are cries of "massive gridlock". There is still total disbelief on the Whitton social media about the gridlock piled on existing gridlock that will ensue if TH moves to Heathfield. Every site seems to have traffic controversies as we've seen with St RR in Clifden Road area, proposal to use Udney Park in Teddington for TH, the Twickenham Green GEMs school, London House, the idea of the Greggs site in Twickenham becoming a school etc. It should be the case that a local secondary school would mainly have children walking and cycling or getting existing buses to it and therefore not adding to gridlock so a less controversial use in traffic terms than a large employer. I'm sure the teenagers wouldn't mind starting an hour later but then there would be worries about them coming home in the dark and being thus more likely to be picked up by car thus causing massive gridlock in the rush hour!

MrsSalvo The reality is that wherever you put a secondary it will be in an area of traffic congestion of some sort, and no neighbours want to live next to a large school. At least a Mortlake brewery site is served by main roads, (but isn't going to be in a cloud of fumes from the A316) and served by the towpath which makes it a 20 minute walk from Barnes and Kew. Presumably admissions will be based on distance criteria, since it is well placed between Christ's and RPA so a greater proportion of pupils will walk. As far as distance criteria are concerned both RPA and Christ's are walkable for all their pupils.

It remains a shame that the Planning Committee haven't come up with a more rigorous travel plan process to actually influence parent behaviour, and encourage more to walk /travel by public transport. With only three year groups in place there are regularly in excess of 100 cars in the car park at St RR at pick up time which will clog up roads even more when the car park is built on, but that is not a local school.

The greater concern is who is going to run the school? There is no obvious local candidate since there has been a lot of resistance to the proposed partnership between the Barnes /Sheen schools and RPA, though maybe LBRUT will try to use this as leverage, they have already tried in the meetings they have had on the admissions issue. RTS and the new HA /TA governance arrangements will presumably take up the energies of those likely partners on the Middlesex side. It would be a shame if it were handed to another non local sponsor with non local ambitions, but then maybe the LST experience will motivate LBRUT to creatively seek other options. Although whatever the reservations about Bellevue apparently parents are very happy with the school (if not the current site, which is now addressed)

whatever the reservations about Bellevue apparently parents are very happy with the school (if not the current site, which is now addressed)

It's good news about the site, but it's early days for the sponsor. Its Whitehall Park School is still housed in portacabins next to the old building, which contains asbestos and is yet to be demolished to make way for new building. It shows that rushing to open a school before building consents have been obtained and building is completed can present risks beyond just the uncertainty for parents.

The RTT Online has South London boroughs rank among highest in capital for displaying huge disparities in wealth between its poorest and richest:
. . These findings were presented to the General London Assembly in a meeting at City Hall last Wednesday based on London Poverty Profile, a report compiled by New Policy Institute and funded by Trust for London. It details a shift in poverty from inner to outer London boroughs over the last decade, and investigated individual boroughs on the areas of inequality, homelessness, housing, unemployment, low pay, benefits and education.

. . Outer London boroughs in the south were found to be above the London average for most of these indicators, but performed badly in terms of inequality. Bromley, Bexley and Richmond are among the worst five London boroughs, alongside Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea, for 'benefit polarisation.' This refers to a situation in which a high proportion of the benefit claimants in each borough reside in small, concentrated areas.

The report shows inequality in Richmond to be particularly stark . . As well as high benefit polarisation, Richmond is among the worst eight London boroughs for GCSE attainment by pupils who get free school meals – despite above-average GCSE results across the borough as a whole.
……………..
From the report: . . The gap in attainment between FSM pupils and non-FSM pupils was 30 percentage points in Richmond upon Thames (vs. 19 in London, less than 10 percentage points in Westminster, Tower Hamlets and Islington, where FSM attainment is relatively high); this ismore than the 29 percentage point gap for the rest of England . . (adapted from p 93)
……………..
from the London’s Poverty Profile website: . . Education is one of the few indicators in which Richmond performs comparatively badly on. Over six in ten (62%) of pupils eligible for free school meals lack 5 A* - C GSCE Grades (including English and Maths). This is eight percentage points higher than the London average . .
.............
So much for 'Richmond's schools are the best' . .

The FT's Education correspondent made similar points, which I posted to this thread, about 3 years ago.

Incidentally, I too do not believe that TH doesn't want children from Whitton. It was set up to serve the black hole. Whitton, for better or for worse, is NOT a black hole

Sounds like a familiar argument.

Can anybody here define a 'black hole'?

As far as I can tell it is an area where the only available non-faith school choice is a Kunskapsskolan Academy.

In which case there ARE black holes in Whitton and Heathfield also.

Regarding the disparity in achievement - although I have been flamed for dissing RPA - this is a real concern. People have crowed about it 'improving' ie attracting wealthier pupils (in fact only because there are no viable alternatives), but the value-added is shockingly low compared to other schools with similar Ever6 intake.
If a school does open in Mortlake (I have said below this is not a great location due to railway gate congestion) there will be a flight from RPA by those who read the shaming valued-added stats on the DfE website and take fright.

Whittonmum, apart from the fact that many Heathfield kids can get into Heathlands and many Whitton kids will be able to get into RTS, there's also a strong chance Twickenham Academy will improve so you get a good school on your doorstep.
Fulwell & HH will never have a good school on its doorstep. It might be able to send itv kids to TA/HA for as long as they Require Improvement and are rejected by more local families, but as soon as they improve, what then? We'll be on the edge again. A school is needed in the centre of the borough, not at its edge and if a site can't be found then an admissions point is the next best solution, and not just for F&HH but for the borough as a whole.

MrsSalvo I saw that RTT article and checked GCSE results - RPA actually had better 3-year average in GCSE results than Christ's for pupils on FSM, (also higher than Teddington last year for that group). It's possible that a small group in an otherwise middle class intake may have proportionally higher level of other needs we don't know about, though (statistics nationally suggest twice the proportion of SEN in FSM pupils compared to others). The challenge for RPA seems not to be the gap but the results overall, compared to Christ's.

WhittonMum1 yes, the analogy for Heathfield/Whitton is Fulwell without Waldegrave - its limited access to Heathland puts it about on a par.

there's also a strong chance Twickenham Academy will improve so you get a good school on your doorstep

Same for Fulwell - or at least the Hampton Hill end - with Hampton Academy.

Whittonmum I would say that a true black hole is where parents receive a letter on allocations day that says that there is no school place at this stage for their child. That has been happening for decades at primary level, most recently in East Twickenham, Hampton and Twickenham Green. Now it has happened for the first time at Secondary level on the Surrey side. It is a miserable experience for parents and children who have to go to Nursery / Primary and hear all the parents who are looking forward to taking up their school places whilst they face continued uncertainty that any place will come up before 1 September, and one year that did not happen and Reception children inb East Twickenham didn't start until Christmas and then in a satellite church hall. The uncertainty might end when a place comes up at a distant less popular school eg Heathfield Junior School in Whitton for Twickenham Green parents, Buckingham for Hampton parents. mum posted statistics that showed most parents offered Heathfield who did not make it a choice rejected the place and there were letters to the papers from Twickenham Green parents who were considering home ed because Heathfield was simply logistically impossible with toddlers in tow. If parents are very lucky if a waiting list place does not materialise the Council may lay on a bulge class in a local school. As highlighted before the side effect of this is that parents find other options and cease to be the Council's problem which has worked well for the Council and left it with the highest proportion of pupils in private education in outer London.

However Turing was never addressing a realised black hole. It was addressing the fact that Council forecasts showed that Twickenham and Hampton Academies would, even on very conservative forecasts of demand, fill up by 2016 without a new Free School coming on stream (that was always included in Council forecasts) and that a black hole would emerge in the Fulwell area in the area most distant from existing schools (again this was acknowledged by the Council). Without Turing and the extra places laid on temporarily at the outstanding community schools and RPA, even with the fact that TA and HA have continued to have problems and be less popular with parents, then it would be an actual black hole.

I have every sympathy with Whitton parents who would not choose to send their children to academies which have a non standard educational strategy, but Whitton parents can only claim to face a black hole in terms of places at a good bog standard community school, they do not face no choice of a school place at all.

Turing gets it from Whitton activists both ways, either they do not want Whitton parents or they are undermining Twickenham Academy, plus Whitton don't want them at all because it will cause traffic chaos. So given all the political pressures and the possibility that who knows but the Conservative establishment may have a white rabbit of a site in it's hat, a fudge of some sort is inevitable.

Does anyone know how far the offers went this year for Orleans Park Secondary & Waldegrave?