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Richmond Borough Schools Chat 6

999 replies

BayJay2 · 07/11/2014 10:53

Hello! This is the latest thread in a series originally triggered by Richmond Council's Education White Paper in Feb 2011. We chat about local education policy, the local impact of national policy, local school performance, and admissions-related issues.

Please do join in. There’s a bunch of us who’ve been following the thread for a long time, and we sometimes get a bit forensic, but new contributions are always welcome.

If you have a few hours to spare and want to catch up on 4 years of local education history, then below are the links to the old threads. We have to keep starting new threads because each only hold 1000 posts. The first two run in parallel, as one was started on the national Mumsnet site, and the other locally:

1a) New Secondaries for Richmond Borough? (Feb 11 - Nov 11)
1b) New Secondary schools for Richmond! (Feb 11-Nov 11)

  1. New Secondary Schools for Richmond 2 (Nov 11-May 12)
  2. New Secondary Schools for Richmond 3 (May 12-Nov 12)
  3. New Secondary Schools for Richmond 4 (Nov 12-Oct 13)
  1. Richmond Borough Schools Chat 5 (Oct 13-Nov 14)
  2. Richmond Borough Schools Chat 6 (Nov 14 - ????) : This thread!
OP posts:
BayJay2 · 06/03/2015 19:16

It all depends on how much they've over-offered by DDqueen40. Last year they over-offered by more than the previous year so the waiting list didn't move as far - not sure how far.

You could probably ask the school or the LA, but it wouldn't be much of an indicator for this year when a) there are more pupils (and it rises further next year) and b) we don't know if they've over-offered by more/less or the same amount this year because they haven't published the figures. (Last year they sent out offer numbers by school, and by admissions criteria, not just cut-off distances).

OP posts:
DDqueen40 · 06/03/2015 20:23

Thanks BayJay2 - sorry to be stupid but what do you mean they sent out offer numbers by school? it is annoying that they don't publish post-waiting list boundaries as there is no idea of knowing if half the kids are using OP (or other schools) as pure back up and have no intention of going there.

BayJay2 · 06/03/2015 21:28

No worries DD. Someone posted a photo of last year's National Offer Day figures on this thread, see here. You'll see that parents were sent the number of offers by school, in each admissions criterion, as well as the cut-off distance (in the final column).

Then RISC published a comparison with the previous year here to show that they'd increased the over-offering by 10%. (By over-offering I mean that they anticipate the drop-out to the private sector and plan it into their initial offers, rather like British Airways overbooks its flights to make sure that they take off as full as possible when people on flexible tickets don't show up). Provided they predict the drop-out accurately it makes sense, but it does decrease the amount by which the waiting list moves.

This year they've only published the cut-off distance, so it's not possible to see how much individual schools have over-offered by.

OP posts:
DDqueen40 · 07/03/2015 09:49

Thanks BayJay. That helps massively. if the cut off distances are doing nothing but falling then, i think living around 1800m puts us out of range for OP (we are just after bridge on Twick Green) but no harm in trying i guess. by the time my second child get to the same stage there will be Turing House in full swing and the other one in Egerton Rd which may mean cut off distances may increase or stop decreasing?

BayJay2 · 07/03/2015 10:10

I'd say you still stand a chance from there DD, so don't give up hope. It will also depend on numbers of siblings applying.

Patterns of demand will certainly change as the two new secondaries become established, so it's hard to predict where cut-offs will be in a few years time. Future Ofsted judgements will impact it too. There have been a number of changes in leadership at local secondaries recently, and that tends to impact movement among other staff too, so it'll be interesting to see the effect of that going forward.

OP posts:
ChrisSquire2 · 07/03/2015 15:17

The Guardian reports: David Cameron is planning to announce a dramatic expansion of the controversial free schools programme on Monday by proposing a further 153 free schools be opened in the next parliament, according to a draft of his speech passed to the Guardian.

The prime minister will also announce the names of 48 free schools to open in the summer of 2016 if the Conservatives are re-elected, as he demonstrates a determination not to slow down on probably the most disputed part of his party’s school reform programme . .

DDqueen40 · 07/03/2015 16:02

In terms of reputation, where is Christ's in comparison to OP or Grey Court? It is another option for us (foundation place) but obviously a bit further away from home.

BayJay2 · 07/03/2015 17:06

They're all good schools DD. Of the people I know who didn't get Orleans Park, and who qualified for a CE foundation place, there was a fairly even split between people putting Christs or Bishop Wand (in Sunbury, so accessible by train from Fulwell) next on their list and I know people who got offers for both of them.

OP posts:
muminlondon2 · 07/03/2015 17:37

There aren't as many CofE primaries in Richmond as in Twickenham so it can come as a noticeable difference to those who have had DCs at a community primary to see crosses or religious messages on the walls, and being asked to say a prayer at open evening (the last head insisted on that at least - he may be happier at StRR with the reaction...). That is why many local parents with the chance of Grey Court/Waldegrave (OP doesn't stretch that far) might put it as a lower preference. But it has in fact played a useful part in providing community places as there are otherwise many black holes on the Surrey side. It gets good results and is seen as smaller and nurturing. Would agree they are all excellent options.

BayJay2 · 09/03/2015 12:34

There are 3 new secondary schools for Hounslow in the latest wave of free school approvals, announced here : The Green School for Boys, the Hip School and the Logic Studio School.

OP posts:
ChrisSquire2 · 09/03/2015 17:12

Monday’s Guardian: . . On Saturday the Guardian reported that Cameron was going to commit the Conservatives to opening 153 new free schools in the next parliament, based on a draft of the speech obtained by the paper.

But government sources said Cameron was not using the 153 figure in his speech on Monday because it was wrong. It only took into account free schools already in the pipeline, the source said. The final draft of the speech uses the figure 500 because that assumes free schools will open at the same rate they have this parliament . .
…………...
GetWestLondon reports: Free school in Isleworth . . approved: The Green School for Boys, in Isleworth and Brentford, will be a sister (or should that be brother) school to the existing Church of England girls school The Green School, in Busch Corner, Isleworth . . A previous application for The Green School for Boys was rejected in June last year, despite the plans being largely praised. It is believed the school is still on course to open in September next year, though this has yet to be confirmed . . According to the DfE, 90% of the latest free schools to be approved are in areas with a shortage of places.

That is certainly true of The Green School for Boys. Nearly 30 extra forms of entry are forecast to be needed across the borough of Hounslow by 2019 . . and demand is expected to be particularly high in the Brentford and Isleworth area . . The Green School for Boys will . . focus on STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) subjects . . The . . original proposals were for a boys school within a mile of the existing girls one which would have 1,260 pupils by 2023. It is not known if any of these details have changed, and no site for the new school has been announced . .

Two other schools in Hounslow were approved: Logic Studio School and The Hip School.

BayJay2 · 09/03/2015 17:29

When the plan for the Green school first emerged there was a large office block for sale just over the road from the girls' school, but last time I went past it had started to be turned into housing.

The old Gillette building was available until very recently too.

OP posts:
muminlondon2 · 12/03/2015 12:17

The Learning Trust/Kunskapsskolan is going to lose one of its four schools: Ipswich Academy which was judged inadequate in September 2013, slipped further into special measures when inspected in January 2015.

In 2008 it was reported in the Guardian that Kunskapsskolan was aiming to open 30 academies and a handful of independent schools. Its co-founder who voiced this ambition went on to work briefly for GEMS as chief executive and for a chain of private equity-backed Swedish free schools JB Education which went bankrupt.

muminlondon2 · 12/03/2015 12:37

A recent Policy Exchange thinktank report, while widely criticised for its flimsy/contradictory evidence, did give some useful figures on the types of free school being opened and the trend towards multi-academy sponsors. The proportion of proposals approved in the last three waves are:

Multi-academy sponsor (34%)
Single academy sponsor (see e.g. Green School for Boys) 31%
Community/parent group (19%)
Charity (7%)
Faith group (5%)
Teacher group (4%)

Perhaps single academy sponsor may include consortia like the ones running REEC or Kingston Academy? 'Multi-academy sponsor' perhaps includes trusts set up by for-profit companies like GEMS, Bellevue Place, etc.) which are new but but moving in on target areas with several proposals at once.

foursquare · 12/03/2015 13:56

No news re: the sites for Turing House? I believe parents need to make a decision by Monday, or can they hold both offers until the site(s) are announced?

BayJay2 · 12/03/2015 15:21

News of the Opening Site is imminent foursquare. The permanent site announcement will take longer, but parents have been told they can hold both offers until they have that information.

OP posts:
BayJay2 · 12/03/2015 15:31

Muminlondon, single academy trista will include private schools that have converted to free schools.

The Green School Trust will be a MAT when it opens the boys' school.

OP posts:
muminlondon2 · 12/03/2015 17:44

BayJay2, private school converters are given a category of their own on page 8 of the Policy Exchange report - 21% in wave 1 (including e.g. Batley Grammar School and the Maharishi school), down to 4% wave 2, 5% wave 3, 4% wave 4 and not listed at all in waves 5-7.

Also, I guess there is a semantic difference between 'multi-academy sponsor' and 'multi-academy trust'. Similarly, a 'single academy trust' might be set up by a charity, teacher's group or parent/community group, all categorised differently by the Policy Exchange, so for the purposes of the report I think the Green School for Girls is a single academy sponsor that will be creating a multi-academy trust (like Waldegrave at the moment).

The way I understand it, roughly a third of new free schools are being created by existing or new education providers, a third by single sponsors (which I still believe includes academy converters and consortia), and the remaining third by third by charities/teachers/parents/community or faith groups. Any of these types might create a school with a religious ethos or denomination, although the Catholic church has ruled out being a sponsor to free schools.

It stands to reason that the most successful schools are run by sponsors/schools that have an established management team and track record, and the high profile flops are the ones run by amateur groups and private schools, or just bad chains like E-ACT.

There is certainly a growth in the number of successful converter academies sponsoring new free schools - that would also be a pragmatic arrangement for many LAs. But it would be perverse not to acknowledge that they were previously successful schools when run by LAs. In Richmond the limited number of new or relaunched schools maintained by the LA in the last 10-15 years have all been judged 'Outstanding' or 'Good' (I'm going to assume St Richard Reynolds is included there with Christ's, Marshgate and Kew Riverside). There's no evidence to support the exclusion of LAs from setting up new schools.

muminlondon2 · 12/03/2015 18:09

Also it's interesting to see on this list of academy sponsors that around 220 out of 673 names are individual schools, colleges and universities, without the word 'trust' or 'federation' or 'group' or 'diocese' etc. So that's about a third, isn't it? It's not a list of every single academy converter, either.

The list includes Waldegrave School for Girls as well as big chains and private company-backed sponsors like AET and GEMS, but I don't see The Green School.

muminlondon2 · 12/03/2015 19:23

Again, it seems obvious, but political spin doesn't really acknowledge that chains or existing schools are behind the successes, and that inexperienced groups are behind some of the failures. See below!

Free school flops (inadequate):

Hartsbrook E-ACT - existing crap chain
IES Breckland - for profit provider
Grindon Hall Christian School - independent school converter

Community/faith/parent group:
Durham Free School
Al Madinah
Hawthorne's Free School
Discovery new school

Successes (outstanding):

Existing chains:
ARK Atwood Primary Academy
ARK Conway Primary Academy
Harris Primary Free School Peckham

Existing schools turned MAT:
Dixons Trinity Academy
Nishkam High School
Tauheedul Islam Boys' High School
Perry Beeches II
Kingfisher Hall Primary Academy

Teacher-led groups:
Corby Technical School
Reach Academy Feltham
Hatfield Community Free School
School 21

CofE admissions policy:
Becket Keys (also part of RET of course)
All Saints Junior School
Canary Wharf College

ChrisSquire2 · 13/03/2015 09:19

This weeks RTT has (p 2) New free school cuts intake by 50 per cent - Deer Park School will only admit one class of 30 this autumn.

There will be a consultation event chaired by Zac Goldsmith at the New Pavilion, Dancer Road, Richmond, Friday March 20 1 - 3 pm.

muminlondon2 · 13/03/2015 10:42

I missed three free schools criticised for poor governance that have been transferred to other trusts following poor Ofsted reports and/or DFE investigations.

CET Westminster and CET Tower Hamlets (run by Constable Education Trust, set up by the Moat School, an independent school for dyslexic pupils)
King's Science Academy (teacher-led school supported by a Conservative deputy chairman)

There's a clear pattern.

DDqueen40 · 13/03/2015 11:26

a good interview with the head of Bellevue Place Education Trust which is in charge of Deer Park School on This Is Our Town Richmond website - www.thisisourtownrichmond.co.uk

muminlondon2 · 13/03/2015 12:22

The 'head of Bellevue Place trust'? He's one of six directors. He works for The Place Group and manages lots of free school projects in conjunction with for-profit companies like Mosaica Education, and is a director of at least two other trusts. So when he says 'we have seven academies', he is representing Bellevue Education, whose directors/backers are investors for rich Swiss families and Saudi princes. He may be an experienced project manager but he does not appear to have an education background and he is not interested in the community.

Of course he's disappointed about East Twickenham - that was a prime site, with a guaranteed market, and a missed business opportunity One that he is still probably interested in - the reduced intake will be a smokescreen for waiting until Ryde House comes up again and then taking it over.

And this: 'we found some permanent accommodation in Kew/Sheen area and this was approved by the Council four weeks ago.' - what misleading rubbish. The accommodation was found for them by the EFA. There has been no planning process. The council did not approve anything.

AbsintheAndChips · 13/03/2015 15:51

He's talking about a walking bus from car parks within 200m distance. What an idiot. That would be the Homebase car park and the Sainsbury's car park. Neither are suitable venues for congregations of 30 small children or more. Both require crossing an extremely busy road by Manor Circus which is hard enough to negotiate for adults. I have frequently seen near misses on those zebra crossings and in fact my forty year old brother was knocked off his bike at the Manor Circus roundabout a couple of days ago by a driver attempting to take it at about forty miles an hour. Walking buses from those car parks will be extremely dangerous, particularly for KS1 children who are not generally known for their excellent road sense and ability to walk in a straight line and keep up with the ones in front of them. I bet he's never attempted to cross the A316 with a bunch of primary aged children. I have. I wouldn't let my kid be part of a walking bus from either of those car parks to London House and she is 8 and actually fairly sensible.