Hillhead Primary - oversubscribed!

[msapplecider]

Hi, does anybody else on here have DC starting primary in August and registered at Hillhead Primary, and received a letter about oversubscription? We are in the catchment area so I thought my DD was going there for sure until yesterday when the letter arrived and told me that we no longer got in automatically due to not enough places being available… Am not sure what to do now, and just wanted to see if anybody else was in the same situation and had any more info on this. Thanks!

That's good news that your daughter has a place Msapplecider. Thewaves is right, Hillhead is an excellent school despite the current issues. Goodness knows what will happen next ..

It looks like the council have promised to pave over the quagmire in the playground: thus was meant to be resemble rolling grassy hills but is actually a mud put. They are also installing more toilets in the playground to ease the pressure - apparently there are only 6 boys toilets at the moment

Hi, after accepting a place at Hyndland we've just been informed that there is a space for our Daughter at Hillhead after all. I have no idea what to do now. Go for overcrowding but in our area or Hyndland for full curriculum and after school care? All advice appreciated.

That's a tough call Seakayak. Surely the other primaries are going to see their numbers go up as a result of children being turned away from Hillhead and will in turn be overcrowded themselves? After school care is a big consideration. At present there's only one provider at Hillhead (Karemore) but they are at capacity and I don't know if they are able to expand. This has been the case for quite some time and although there are noises being made about using existing council buildings to extend aftercare facilities there is nothing concrete. If you definitely need aftercare and can't get it at Hillhead that may well be the deciding factor. Perhaps speak to Karemore and see what their situation is?

The Hillhead primary parents council minutes for the March meeting were published online and may be of interest to you seekayak.
The parent council appear to be pushing to annexe, literally and figuratively the nursery. If it happens the school would be a more attractive proposition for some.
As this solution is shortsighted, short term and unfair, it's probably the one the council will opt for.

Oh dear, feel sorry for the nursery if that is deemed to be a solution to the problem! What a fiasco.

Hi - just wanted to state that its not the Parent Council how are pushing for the annexe. In the meetings that they have held with the Council on the problems of the overcrowding, Glasgow Council have offered this as a solution, not the parent council pressing for it. The Parent Council also asked in these meetings that if this was to transpire, then the Council would need to factor in an alternative provision which could provide more places since the demand is so high. Just don't want the perception that if the nursery closes, its down to the Parent Council!!

Re the after school provision, I know that Safe Til Six in Community Central Halls pick up children from Hillhead primary and also pick up from 6 surrounding schools.

It might be worth speaking to them now as I know they can get over subscribed from some of the schools

I was disappointed to read the headline in today's evening times. If the story is accurate, never a given, it adds to the overall impression that the parent council is exerting pressure on the council to close the nursery to expand the school.
The parent council may claim they are merely attempting to force the council to address the difficulties the school is experiencing, however as they refuse to accept that reducing the catchment area will be sufficient, the only alternative being offered is to close the nursery, the p.c know this.
I do not disagree with the p.c's actions, they are acting in the best interests of their children, however I do hope the council consult properly on this and listen to all voices not just a small well motivated and organised group.
With proper management of the catchment area, the school roll will be reduced over the next two to three years and the community will continue to have a very successful nursery. The alternative is a school of nearly 700 pupils, which is not desirable and no nursery.

The alternative is a school of nearly 700 pupils, which is not desirable and no nursery

What surprises me is that the city council has managed to bungle the planning, construction and organisation of what should be a flagship primary school for Glasgow.

And everyone accepts it in this sort of 'oh well' attitude.

At least the parent council at that school are taking the council to task for this cock-up - losing the nursery provision will be disgraceful, it will impact many working parents in that area, ditto the after school care.

But, you know, in the next two to three years it might start to get a bit better...well done Glasgow City Council!

I have been waiting since march to hear wether my daughter is getting her place to start in August 2014 I phoned today to ask and they say she's still on waiting list and I will get a phone all on Monday to say if she had got a place. That is all based on wether ppl are not bothered and move there child to another school. Nothing I can do apart from wait but I won't give because am in the catchment area and I js feel angry about the whole situation

Think unless you live really close (hillhead st, cecil st, Gibson st) it's really hard to know sure....I know of somebody who lives right behind waitrose who can't get in....it's appalling.

Those of you not getting in....how close to the school are you?

Hi Mumsnetters,

I have started a petition on 'Change.org' to stop the catchment change for Hillhead Primary School. Could you support this by signing? I have a very long way to go, as I'm looking for 1,000 signatures before the public consultation on this ends on 29th September 2014. The link is here:

www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/glasgow-city-council-stop-the-proposal-to-change-the-catchment-area-for-hillhead-primary-school-in-Glasgow.

Could you please ask all your friends to sign this too? Thank you very much for supporting this.

Hi again Mumsnetters,

Re my previous email, apologies for the previous non-functioning link. I think the link below should work:

www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/glasgow-city-council-stop-the-proposal-to-change-the-catchment-area-for-hillhead-primary-school-in-glasgow

Thank you for your support.

Over 120 children attend Kelvin Park Early Years Centre. There is a long waiting list too. The majority either have kids at Hillhead PS or plan to send their kids there. The Council did come up with expansion options and could both expand the school and keep the nursery on site - if enough people make a noise they will have to spend the money to make this happen! So we are asking parents from all affected schools and nurseries to please sign our petition to save the nursery...

www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/glasgow-city-council-keep-kelvin-park-early-years-centre-on-site

If Kelvin Park Early Years closes there is a massive knock on effect all around the West End and the other Council Nurseries like Elie St and Belhaven will all be impacted on. Another knock on affect will be Garscube Playrooms will be given notice to leave their premises after 35 years on site so Cowcaddens nursery can expand. Save Kelvin Park EYC!

Hi parents! I am moving to Glasgow from Singapore in Nov. My children 4 &6 years old needs a school. We totally new about school systems here.

Hillhead is good but over subscribed. Would like to ask what is the main different btw popular and non popular schools?
Any parents have reviews on Anderson Primary School or any other not so popular schools?

Thank you very much for your help.

Hillhead primary now faces decanting its P7 pupils to the high school 3/4 days a week to get some extra space. This would be fir the foreseeable future . There is no information about how thus would work out day to day - do the children have dinner at high school? What happens at break time? Gym? What about pick up/drop offs for parents with several children?

It seems pretty extreme to split up a primary school - particularly decanting P7s preparing for transition to various high schools - to preserve a nursery.

This is our school community which will be directly affected by this - 700 children.

My daughter will be one of those p7s decanted to the high school - and that means no settled classroom, carrying materials up and down the hill, no work on walls, constant up and down hill - at a time when she should be consolidating her learning in preparation for S1.

I bet none of the vocal
Parents campaigning for the EYC
Would tolerate that for their own child.
I appreciate the nursery is an excellent resource but there are many really good state nurseries and private nurseries nearby.

It just seems wrong that education fur 700 children is compromised to preserve the nursery.

The responsibility lies with the council but of course they are happy to sit back and watch the community blame each other fir this dreadful situation.

Bog Queen, many and most of the parents who have children at the nursery who want to keep it open are also parents at the school!

127 of the children at the school attended the EYC - given that the EYC has only been open for 3 years that's a large turnover of children who go through transition from the nursery to the school.

The campaign to save the EYC is just that, we simply don't want it closed as it's an essential and excellent facility. The Council aren't proposing to relocate it, (it would cost them over a million pounds to find and refurb a property to statutory nursery standards) - they will simply shut it down thus immediate scattering of 120 children, many with siblings at the school. We believe there are lots of ways space can be found for the drama/dance/art facilities without resorting to this drastic solution. Please see our website:

keepkelvineyc.wordpress.com/suggested-solutions-to-lack-of-gp-rooms-at-hillhead-school/

Please note we aren't supporting any one solution so we are also very keen to hear more about the transition option. But nowhere does it say it's 3/4 days a week at the High School? It says 2 days a week:

www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=22643&p=0

Transitioning is done at Jordanhill/Glasgow Academy/Hutchesons Grammar etc. Any mums have first hand knowledge about it?

did you get the info from that your child would be 'decanted' to the high school 3/4 days a week?

What's staggering about the high school suggestion is that there is no detail at all.

The high school is opposed saying there is no space.

Where will my child have lunch?

Where will they have break times?

If will take three members off staff to walk them up to the high school

What about the Muslim girls who are going to all girls school at S1?

What about the children who are not going to the High School?

Transitions must be managed very carefully - there are children who are not yet ready for an s1 environment. For a lot of children this will be disruptive but for some it will be incredibly stressful

What do they do with all their classroom resources? Do they carry those about? Do the teachers pack up and transport what the need fir each day they are st the high school? What about access to white boards?

There are so many unanswered questions. My child's education is being affected by a proposed 'policy' which appears to have been scribbled on the back of a fag packet.

And thus isn't about drama, dance facilities - this is about 2classes of p7 children having to share a classroom. Losing IT suite and library. Struggling to feed all the children at lunchtime. Unable to fulfil the gym requirement. Hyndland school also opposed to taking any extra children.

Hi Bog Queen,

I do sympathise that the school has space issues. I just don't think it's as simple as closing the nursery to create extra space for the school. Lots of schools in Glasgow are facing space issues but don't close their nurseries to sort out the problem, making one a sacrificial lamb for the other. The ideal educational model that Scottish Govermment is trying to promote is co-location of school and nursery.

If Notre Dame have space problems will they try and take over their nursery? If the Gaelic school have space problems would they sacrifice their nursery? Shutting Kelvin Park EYC to sort out school space issues would create a precedent. It is already a precedent that the school parents are campaigning for it's closure, usually schools fight to keep their nurseries.

The two P7s are sharing the ICT suite and that's far from ideal, I do sympathised but it's not a classroom, it's actually a larger space than 2 classrooms put together and is partitioned. The school could have put 1 P7 in the remaining GP room but have chosen to retain it for GP -general purpose. And there is the social space which is also very large and a depute head told me currently gets used for drama and also houses the library.

We are a group of parents who mostly also have kids at the school or kids who will go there when they are older, we genuinely want the school to have more space and there are potential spaces on site for creation of extra rooms as per the list the council produced in Feb 2014. Did you look at the link I posted about suggested solutions?

The Council are going to cap intake at 90 from now regardless of whether the nursery stays open or closes so figures will go down.

Ironically, as someone from another school pointed out much earlier in this thread, if the nursery is taken and there is then technically lots more room the school will be vulnerable to placing requests and any newly created GP rooms will be usurped as classrooms anyways. Taking the nursery won't solve the canteen lunchtime issue and an increased roll call would make that worse.

I do wonder why they don't stagger lunchtimes like many other schools in the same boat? Fingers crossed the Council find a solution to suit everyone, we are all after all part of the same community and should share!

Frankly I can't see any 'educational model' be followed by any of the cojncil's suggestions. My P7 child will simply be shunted about to solve the space problem. They can't stagger lunchtimes easily because they need the dinner hall for gym. Likewise the social space is cluttered with the library so they can't do gym in there.

The head teacher currently gives up his lunch hour to take groups if children up to the football pitch fir space to play (accompanied by a rota of parents helpers)

The nursery campaign seems to be championing portacabins in the playground. There is not enough space for them. Once they are there they will never go. Where do the children at?
One to one SEN provision is affected. Children face getting extra help in corridors.

Art is problematic - they are not supposed to do art work in the classrooms.

The chdren mourn the loss of the IT room. There is not enough room in classrooms fur everyone to do IT. And frankly P7s sharing a classroom - even if it is slightly larger us not at a ideal - these children need to be working hard in peace, they need to be consolidating their learning in preparation for S1.

I appreciate the nursery is a fantastic resource fir working parents ( I work full time and have 3 children) but I do not think that childcare should come at a cost to education of older children particularly in the critical p7 year.

Here is the effect on SEN children:

“Recently I met with a group of parents to discuss the direct effects of overcrowding on their ASC affected children. Stress effects have been very obvious since school returned and ‘break out’ space no longer existed for support activities.

Parents have recorded a resurgence of behaviours and symptoms that had abated during the last couple of school years. These include sleep disorders, loss of appetite and self-harming in children. Break out space is really important for neuro-diverse children who suffer from sensory overload. Sometimes they just need a quiet place they can go to calm down in and this is no longer available to them.

Space for children to meet with specialists for planned support and interventions is also increasingly difficult to find. This means that unintentionally disruptive behaviour on the part of affected children is on the increase. Parents also reported that educational progress made by their children was being reversed as a result of the loss of space for dedicated educational and social interventions.”

“The new proposal to send P7 children to Hillhead High School is flawed. The children will face a disrupted week and will be forced into a difficult transition before they are ready. For ASC and other children who rely on routine and familiar surroundings for security this will be disastrous. It will cause emotional, social and educational challenges that they are not equipped to cope with. ‘Hot desking’ should not be implemented with children. Temporarily vacated classrooms are not the same as dedicated library, gym or g.p. room space. Turning our children into itinerant learners is not an option.

The promise that g.p. space will return after four years means that for four years, the larger part of a pupil’s primary school life, children with ASCs and other conditions or circumstances requiring support, will be in a non inclusive environment. Their needs will not be met. Is this acceptable?

My daughter attended nursery staffed by the Kelvin Park team and I strongly believe that team should be kept together and offered an alternative site. A move to a new site with the same staff would be a minimal disruption for the children currently attending Kelvin Park. A move to a new nursery would cause minimal disruption compared to that suffered by P7 children forced to split their week between their familiar primary school and the high school.

Fundamentally, the council should offer an alternative site for Kelvin Park. This is where efforts should be focussed, not in half-baked proposals that will damage a school community” contributed by Fionnuala Featherstone

I know I've posted a lot of text

But I just wanted to show that this isn't about a small PTA clique who only care about their own children

It isn't about not getting enough art or drama - it has real effects on basic education especially for the children who are more vulnerable to change.