Time has come, George watsons or George Heriots?

[Eman83]

So I have two offers for pre school, George watsons and George Heriots, I have accepted both places and paid the fee so I have longer to decide.
Please can you give me any opinions on both schools! Anything from school buses to academics/sports.

Coffee you can get entitled children at the local council schools too!

My friend rarely mentions she went to private school at all!

(It's not me you need to convince, but TanH!)

What a completely ridiculous and petty comment TattiesAnHerrin. Speaks volumes.

Jealousy? No. I just think that private education is profoundly, deeply, indefensibly, morally wrong.

And as to the arseholes, I work in higher education. I see kids coming out the other side of private schools. Some of them do come through ok. But the ones who don't would make me never ever want to take the risk.

Slightly worrying that you work in higher education with such a narrow minded view of the world

You work in higher education? It sounds like more your personal issues and nothing to do with the children you 'teach'.... time for a career change I think.....

I understand that you might find it more comfortable to interpret what I've said that way. But there's a well-established research base demonstrating the comparative under-performance of students from private schools once they've gone on to higher education and lose access to the unfair advantage that their schooling has given them.

I would have thought that as parents concerned with your childrens' long-term development and well-being you might pause to reflect on the experience and perceptions of a professional who works with students from all kinds of backgrounds, rather than dismissing them out of hand because they don't validate your choices.

The vast majority of my students are a joy; dedicated, interested, committed to their studies and to engaging with their teachers, their peers and the wider community. That majority includes ex-private school as well as ex-state school kids, of course. But there are also others who behave as I described up-thread, assuming that their fees have bought them a 2:1 and that they shouldn't have to work hard, collaborate with fellow-students, use their initiative, think for themselves, take responsibility for their own learning, or question their place in the world. In my twenty years in higher ed I have never met a student with that kind of attitude who came from a state school.

This could be looked at from two sides. You could also say you get higher pregnancy rates, drug users, drinkers, people who will go to jail in state school. These things also happen at private schools i am sure, however at a lower rate.
Unfortunately its one of those things. All schools, private and state have negative and positive aspects about them. But you can't go calling some children from private schools arseholes?
Im sure there will be children coming out of state schools thinking they are "entitled" to benefits?
What you have said has just opened up to a debate really, and each side has its own situation.

Just to make clear i am not saying this in a negative way directed at you. Its just showing there will always be two sides to an argument.

Well, I can't see it as just 'one of those things' when it enshrines grotesque inequality in our country and institutionalises one of the most extreme imbalances in power and opportunity in the western world.

That is a broad political issues, but it's also a deeply personal one. As a parent, you are not just buying an advantage for your child by sending them to private school; you are buying disadvantage for other children. Your child's opportunity comes at the cost of opportunities for others. And no amount of jolly comparisons between this choice and that choice of school can disguise the fact that your decision destroys any hope of a fairer school system and a more equal society.

It's not surprising, really, that that moral perspective rubs off on some of the children.

Some interesting perspectives on this in the following links:

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/expateducation/4186563/Why-independent-schools-are-bad.html

www.theguardian.com/education/2012/jul/30/best-educatioon-state-school-not-private

www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/private_school_vs_public_school_only_bad_people_send_their_kids_to_private.html

Inequality is part of life. You can't get rid of religion just like you can't get rid of inequalities..... c'est la vie

Not all private school pupil are entitled. Many parents scrape every penny together to pay for their child's education. I know a few friends who have their child at private school on scholarships or bursaries.

You cannot judge all private school pupils on the few elitist you meet in your job.

From experience entitled attitudes start before they start nursery.

Wow Tatties, you have been most unfortunate in your experience as most of the privately educated people i have come across are generally pretty normal, work hard, don't expect any privileges or special treatment. Of course, I've come across a few idiots too and that's just par for the course. Just as the majority of state school kids are also just as normal, work hard and get on with life. Again, I've met a few idiots too from that walk of life and again, that's just how it goes.

I'm privately educated, not once do I expect the world to fall at my feet, in fact I've had to work bloody hard and made sacrifices so I can send my dc to private school. It's a choice I've made, granted, but I don't feel aggrieved or hard done by.

In Edinburgh (and I'm sure it's the case in other places) a large amount of kids are privately educated. And I can tell you that Edinburgh Council are very grateful of that as they have no facilities or funds to cope with extra numbers.

Well said!

But there's a well-established research base demonstrating the comparative under-performance of students from private schools once they've gone on to higher education and lose access to the unfair advantage that their schooling has given them.
No, there really isn't. There is evidence that young people educated at independent schools don't do quite as well at university as people from state schools with the same A level grades - but all that says is that not all the grade advantage that a private school education provides is carried through to university education. Then there's the TIMSS or is it PISA study that said the apparent advantage of private schools in the UK could all be explained by SE status - which was interesting, though arguably methodologically flawed, and still didn't say privately educated pupils were under-performing (just that they weren't over-performing).

Citations? (To research, not to journalism, please.)

Tatties - you say that spending money on a private education is creating disadvantage, what about the difference in house prices in the catchment of the state schools with the best results and those properties just outside? People also create advantage through where they live within the state sector.

I agree the current system is not perfect, but I'm not sure what you are suggesting that would have a clear improvement on the most disadvantaged pupils.

Hi Eman83, not sure if you'll get this message but wondering what decision you made on schools and how it's going? We're just going through the same decision process now :) Much appreciated...