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New Secondary Schools for Richmond 4

1000 replies

BayJay2 · 09/11/2012 21:26

Welcome. This is the fourth (or perhaps fifth) in a series of threads about Richmond Secondary Schools.

The discussion was originally triggered by Richmond council's publication of its Education White Paper in February 2011. It started with two parallel threads here and here.

In November 2011 the most active of the original two threads reached 1000 messages (the maximum allowed) so we continued the conversation here.

That thread filled up in May 2012, and was continued here.

It's now November 2012, and once again we're at the start of a new thread ....

OP posts:
jotwicken · 27/11/2012 13:33

All it needs is a sponsor and a demand from local parents !
To add to that the most important part - a willing Council that will approve the Sec 11 application and procure a site.
Can the Local Authority also be a itself a sponsor for VA schools ?

Heathclif · 28/11/2012 08:07

Vince did try to challenge Gove www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/nov/28/cable-accuses-gove-over-faith-schools?fb=native but it is a bit "going through the motions" to write a letter as a local MP rather than mobilising the coalition committee (which they are threatening to bring out of mothballs for Leveson, on which disagreement looks possible) to bring the issues out into the open and firm up coalition policy on this issue . Otherwise Gove will just carry on in his own autocratic way as he is doing on so many other issues.

ChrisSquire2 · 28/11/2012 10:27

From Vince Cable accuses Michael Gove of betrayal over faith schools (Guardian Nov 28):

. . In a brief but irate missive to David Laws, the Lib Dem education minister, copied to the office of party leader Nick Clegg, Cable wrote: "A serious problem has arisen whereby DfE officials, in evidence to a court case, appear to be acting in contradiction to the coalition agreement in relation to faith schools and contrary to the express intention of the Education Act 2011." He concluded: "Can you intervene with the department to rectify this situation?"

. . Shortly before the case was due to be heard, Gove intervened decisively. He formally applied to take part in the proceedings as an interested party, to argue that in his view Richmond was not legally obliged to seek the academy route. It was at this point, on 9 November, that Cable wrote his letter, also copying in a local campaigner who passed it to the British Humanist Association (BHA), which was backing the court case. Cable's appeal for Gove to step back was ignored.

. . In his letter to the DfE Cable wrote: "For the record, I and the Richmond Liberal Democrat council group have supported the proposal for a new Catholic school but argued that it should be inclusive (ie 50:50 admission). This was in line with the presumption in favour of 50% faith-based admission in new academies in the [Education] Act, and the coalition agreement."

Cable's fury appears fuelled in part by a sense that Gove has gone back on his word: in March the Liberal Democrat wrote to the education secretary suggesting the new Richmond schools be subject to the 50% religious limit. Gove replied saying that while this would not be enforced, a voluntary cap "seems very sensible to me and I would welcome such a move".

Cable told the Guardian he was acting purely as a local MP, and that he had supported the efforts of campaigners to make the school more inclusive. He declined to criticise Gove personally, but said: "I am disappointed at the outcome. There was quite a lot of local feeling about this. I supported the school but I raised concerns because the coalition agreement said faith schools should have a 50/50 split on intake."

The comments (92 so far) are ill-informed, of course, but vigorously expressed.

ChrisSquire2 · 28/11/2012 10:52

RISC press release Nov 28:

Vince Cable heavily criticised the Department for Education for their intervention in the Catholic schools court case, which he said contradicted the 2010 Coalition Agreement between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats.

The Agreement commits the government to ?work with faith groups to enable more faith schools and facilitate inclusive admissions policies in as many of these schools as possible.? But in a witness statement, David McVean, a senior official at the DfE, claimed the Education Act 2011, which came into force in February, not only promoted Academies/free schools, but was also intended to make voluntary aided schools easy to set up. One of the main reasons he gave was that ?In some cases? religious organisations will not wish to establish an Academy. This is mainly because only 50% of places can be prioritised on the basis of faith if that Academy is oversubscribed.? Voluntary aided schools, such as the new St Richard Reynolds Catholic secondary, can go up to 100%.

In a strongly worded letter sent prior to the court hearing to David Laws, the LibDem Minister for Schools, Dr Cable said: ?A serious problem has arisen whereby DfE officials, in evidence to a court case, appear to be acting in contradiction of the Coalition Agreement in relation to faith schools and contrary to the express intention of the Education Act 2011?.. For the record, I and the Richmond Liberal Democrat Council Group have supported the proposal for a new catholic school but argued that it should be inclusive (i.e. 50:50 admission). This was in line with the presumption in favour of 50% in favour of 50% faith-based admission in new academies in the Act, and the Coalition Agreement. Can you intervene with the Department to rectify this situation??

The Department ignored Dr Cable?s request. Their lawyer put forward their argument during the High Court case, and the judge accepted their overall interpretation of the new Act.

Rabbi Jonathan Romain, Chair of the Accord Coalition, which has been backing Richmond Inclusive Schools Campaign (RISC) said: ?Children should not be selected by schools according to faith. It is highly discriminatory and sends a terrible message to the children themselves about the sort of society we are trying to create. It also begs questions about the core values of any faith that wants to shut the doors on others. Britain today is multi-belief, but we don?t want that to become a multifractious society. State funded schools should not help to segregate and entrench religious division, but should instead be open to all children, regardless of religion or philosophy. We therefore call on the Government to fulfil its commitment to facilitate inclusive admissions policies. Schools? conduct should be exemplary, and religious discrimination should form no part of their life.?

However, Greg Pope, the deputy director of the Catholic Education Service, has recently asked Michael Gove, the Secretary of State for Education to remove even the 50% cap on faith-based selection at new academies/free schools. He said that it acted as a ?perverse disincentive? to set up new Catholic academies/free schools. He added that a loophole in the rules meant that the Church could set up a traditional voluntary aided school and then convert it to an academy to ?get around? the cap. But he said: ?That seems to me ? to put it mildly ? not the best way of doing it.? RISC have cited evidence that that this was the intention for the new Catholic schools in Twickenham from the start.

Vince Cable letter to David Laws of 9 Nov 12

[[http://www.richmondinclusiveschools.org.uk/files/view/legal-challenge/DfE_submission_-
25Oct12David_McVean.pdf Witness Statement on behalf of the Secretary of State for Education by David McVean]]

concparentt · 28/11/2012 11:14

Chris - Thats all good stuff - lot of words no actions. Lib Dems are good at giving a shoulder to cry upon. But are again proving to be ineffective in gettin things done.
I would like to be proved wrong when Nick Clegg and Vince Cable take this up in the Parliament and get it sorted!

BayJay2 · 28/11/2012 11:49

For info, Richmond Council have just published their 2012 Admissions Report. It also includes preference data for 2013 applications.

OP posts:
BayJay2 · 28/11/2012 12:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BayJay2 · 28/11/2012 12:42

Correcting my previous post (as I don't think out-borough applicants are included in the tables yet), what I should have written is ....

One thing I notice from the Admissions Report is that despite it saying in para 7 that "the total number of applications from Richmond Borough residents is the lowest for five years", the numbers of children applying for those secondaries that were previously only accessible via the linked-school policy have shot up.

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BayJay2 · 28/11/2012 14:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Heathclif · 28/11/2012 14:56

BayJay The huge increase in applications to Orleans, oversubscription at Teddington and increase at Twickenham Academy (especially if this doesn't include out of borough) is all pointing to the emergence of the black hole. We will see how it goes with actual allocations.

BayJay2 · 28/11/2012 15:30

An update: I've checked with the report's author and the 2013 preference data does include preferences from out-of-borough. So that means the increased number of preferences for Orleans, Teddington and Grey Court are a combination of in-and-out-borough preferences.

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muminlondon2 · 28/11/2012 16:21

So while first preferences have declined very slightly for Teddington and Waldegrave (still enormously oversubscribed, so that's just the local cohort), there has been a similar jump in popularity in both Orleans Park and Grey Court of 49/44 first preference applicants respectively. Grey Court is now oversubscribed on first preferences so its catchment area is likely to have shrunk back to Ham.

Christ's has increased by 22 but still not oversubscribed as a first preference (and we don't know if they are local applicants or for foundation places, so not sure if they are locals preferring Christ's to RPA).

LProsser · 28/11/2012 17:32

So if only 67 chose Sir RR as first preference including out of borough how many LB Richmond Catholic families actually chose it? Doesn't this indicate a slightly underwhelming want let alone need as opposed to all the deluge of anguish about not getting places out of borough, having to leave at 6am instead of 8.30 am etc. (see front of Friday's RTT for this amazing piece of time forecasting!) I thought there were 200 families in the LB Richmond absolutely gagging for this opportunity!

BayJay2 · 28/11/2012 17:44

Lottie, I do think we need to be a little careful because some families may have been put of choosing St RR because of the uncertainty over the judicial review.

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muminlondon2 · 28/11/2012 19:36

The number of first preference applications naming Richmond schools is the highest for at least 9 years (in fact, I'd guess it's the highest since 1993 when the link system began) - it's jumped up by 137 applications since last year, despite 79 fewer Richmond children.

I'd guess a few more from Hounslow applied to Twickenham Academy as first choice, and perhaps there could be up to 100 from Kingston naming Grey Court or Teddington as their preference. Then I'd guess 70-100 more Richmond Catholics applied for a Richmond school as first choice - most for St RR, but some for Orleans Park.

Either the provision of a Catholic school isn't freeing up places in other Richmond schools as expected, or the out of borough 'cushion' is something they can no longer control, because Richmond is attracting even more out-of-borough applicants.

We'll find out in March whether there's an improvement on 9.3% of Richmond residents not given a place at any of their stated preferences. If not, the council will not have met its aim of 'increasing choice and diversity'.

muminlondon2 · 28/11/2012 20:07

BTW I don't know how the new Tiffin tests would influence things. Some may have failed the first round test which was designed to weed out about two thirds of hopefuls who would otherwise have put it down as first choice. But as they appear to be holding it again in December maybe not enough had registered for it the first time round.

LProsser · 28/11/2012 21:27

I think the low level of first preferences for Sir RR is astonishing given that there was supposed to be a massive desire for it from 200 LB Richmond families whose children are "forced" to go out of borough each year. If they were really longing for this school wild horses wouldn't have put them off making it first choice when it had been named, the headmaster appointed, open days held etc. I don't believe they would have been put off by the fact that the outcome of the JR wasn't known until after applications closed. Obviously if it wasn't going to open their first preference wouldn't count so their second pref would become their first pref. etc. This just seems another indication that a small minority have driven this through and the majority have so many options open to them that they can afford to sit back and wait a few years until they can see whether Sir RR is any good compared to expanded Gumley, London Oratory, the private sector etc. If it's going to open with lots of Catholics from outside LB Richmond or lots of non-Catholics or half empty it's a complete travesty.

BayJay2 · 29/11/2012 09:22

I think the low level of first preferences for Sir RR is astonishing

I'd be astonished by it if I hadn't been following the debate closely, but I think I'd use the word 'unsurprising' in the circumstances, given that we know the Catholic population have some very good alternative out-borough VA choices, as well as (new for 2013) some very good in-borough community choices, in addition to this new (and therefore unproven) in-borough VA choice. Presumably St RR will fill eventually, but it may take a little while to become established, as is the case for many new schools.

One thing the Free School process has introduced is the requirement for groups to demonstrate the number of people who would not only support the vision for the school in principle, but actually specify it as their first choice. Of course those 'first choice' pledges aren't binding but they go some way towards measuring the demand more accurately.

The local consultation about Clifden Road didn't ask that question.

OP posts:
Heathclif · 29/11/2012 15:15

Bayjay I thought that at the time, whether parents were going to prefer it to the established alternatives was never tested except in so much as the "well ventilated" vocal minority quoted the difficulty of the journey, even as it was clear they themselves had taken the journey in preference to a local Catholic option. And of course the majority of the Catholics responding to the Consultation weren't even parents of children under 11.

There are lots of reasons to expect low take up at this stage though , the crummy accommodation, building work to come, letting the fuss die down, and I am not sure how it works with the random allocation within Parishes / Oratory lottery. You may have to put a school as first preference to get into the hat IYSWIM.

There is an incentive to put undersubscribed schools down the preferences. I wonder if that is what has happened with RPA. Obviously you don't stand much chance of Tiffins /Christ's etc if they are not first preference but we don't know how many of the parents who put RPA down the preferences did so knowing it pretty much was a sure thing they would get a place and they would be quite happy with that , and how many are still not convinced it is a good school. I am hearing the former.

However the main issue with St RR is whether whilst the Catholic community are deciding whether they actually desire St RR, the situation on school places for non Catholic "ordinary" children in Twickenham becomes a crisis, a crisis of Lord True and his acolytes' making. We won't know fully until allocations but I think there are some worrying pointers here, especially in terms of the Orleans catchment.

muminlondon2 · 29/11/2012 19:25

It can certainly take a long time to establish a school but perhaps even longer to turn one around and for parents to see the results. The Ofsted result for RPA came after the applications deadline, after all.

I think the cohort size is meant to be a little smaller this year (or perhaps no bigger but with more at our primaries from other boroughs). That may have been another reason for the rush to establish St RR this year, before the council runs out of 'alternative offers'. When that happens, they'll act all surprised.

concparentt · 29/11/2012 21:15

An interesting report in Times2 today on what competitive parents do to get into selective, church and private secondaries. There is also a book "The Perfect Parents' Insider Guide to the 11 Plus" available at 11plusperfectparent.com

concparentt · 29/11/2012 21:42

muminlondon2 - As you probarbly know, Osted ratings are only a means to an end, not an end in itself. A lot depends on how schools listen and engage with their local community and the trust the parents have in their leadership.
Grey Court is a great example of a school with just "Satisfactory" Ofsted Rating (that would mean RI as per new Ofsted guidelines), but skyrocketing popularity.

jotwicken · 29/11/2012 22:02

Heathclif I agree I think there are some worrying pointers here, especially in terms of the Orleans catchment
All schools here apart from TA are heavily oversubscribed. Even TA has seen a surge in applications and may well get oversubscribed. The daunting prospect is that some pupils will not get into any local school in Twickenham.
Ofcourse the Councils party line will be that there are open spaces at RPA and it wants parents from Twickenham to choose a school that that is being rejected by its local primary schools!

muminlondon2 · 29/11/2012 22:38

concparentt, I agree that the gist of Grey Court's last Ofsted report said 'good', while the 'satisfactory' rating seemed to relate just to exam results which have since shot up. My own impression from visiting and talking to parents with children there says 'outstanding'. So no wonder it's oversubscribed. But still ... for the new academies such as RPA, it's reassuring to see 'good' - we've yet to see the outcomes for the Kunskapsskolan academies (although the head of Hampton Academy has taught in the borough before so perhaps application numbers reflect a certain amount of confidence in her).

jotwicken · 01/12/2012 18:21

Muminlon and concparent - what is the magic sauce at Grey Court ? I have not visited the school but am amazed to see how well it is connected with its local community.
Why can't our academies do what Grey court does ?

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