Tormead and Guildford

[happygirlmum]

Read all of the threads about these two schools in Mumsnet, but still have some questions. So I registered and this is my first thread.

My daughter will take the assessment(4+) this year. I would like to send her to GHS, as that's the best school in this area (academically). However, she is shy and desn't speak much in front of strangers(partly bacause we are not English and we don't speak English at home.She just picked up some English in the nursery). I'm worrying if she can pass the GHS assessment.

Tomead may be more fit for my daughter as she is shy. However I'm not sure how unpushy the Tormead is. Does it give enough support to a bright girl(I mean only if you are bright, you can get as much as development that GHS can provide?)? I pay much attention to the academical side and I really hope my daughter can go to a Russel Group university. On the other hand, if two children from these two schools are similarly bright, will the child in GHS have better acdemica education?

If my daughter goes to Tormead at 4, but I want her to take the 7+ exam in GHS, will it be more difficult for her than those children from other schools? (I heard that few children transfer from Tormead or St Catherine's to GHS. I'm not sure what's the reason)

Could any one give any suggestion or comments about this?

Thanks very much!

P.S. Tormead junior school looks very small and the teachers looked less kind than the GHS (first impression when I visited the school). Not sure if it's true.

I read a league table from BBC

GCSE
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16729387

A Level
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16730014

Why Tomead is totally out of the table? Even GHS and RGS are behind lots of grammar schools. They are not so good as said (e.g. GHS is top 10 in England).

Any idea about this?

up

Tormead is a small school so doesn't appear in those tables (there is a note about the size of school).
I have known girls go to Oxbridge from all those schools (and the State comps), I also know girls from all the schools go to less than Russell group Unis, but then that might be the best uni for their subject/area.
Your daughter might get through the GHS assessment, and it still be suggested that she would be better elsewhere later on. Just getting her into GHS does not mean she will get 4 A* at A'level.
I'm a bit surprised about those league tables, but then the Grammar schools above them are some of the top performing schools in the country, and highly selective.

At 4 you cannot and neither can any school, accurately predict how your DD will do at school, and what career/university will be best for her.
I wouldn't over think it, I would let her do the assessments, and if you prefer GHS then if she gets offered a place then take it. If not then you can think again at 7.

BTW I have known girls move from GHS to both ST Catz and Tormead (and not because they were pushed); all three schools take girls from local state schools too. There is a lot of movement. (You could also consider Rydes Hill for up to 11, as I know a friend who lived virtually next to Tormead set her daughter's there, as it was the best school for them.)

mummytime, thanks for your reply. I thought carefully about your words. Yes, maybe I worried about her too much and I'm too inconfident in her. There are students with good perfomance in both schools. If she is bright enough, she should be ok in either of them. If she is not bright enough, the only thing I can do is just trying my best to give her more choices.

Thanks.

I hope I wasn't too harsh, and I do know how hard it is. I really wished for a crystal ball at times to just see how my eldest would turn out (he's scarily doing GCSEs).
The key thing, is to go for a school you are happy with, and then be flexible enough to change if it doesn't work out (never mind intelligence there are also the specific girls in your daughter's class, which can affect things massively). You care, and I am sure will do your best to enrich her school experience (eg. trips to museums etc.). So she should do well regardless.
The key thing is to aim for her to do her best, and have as many options as she can, as she grows up.

mummytime your sentence about a crystal ball sums up how i feel right now trying to make a decision....you are soo right about a flexible approach and spot on re girls !!!

Tormead is on the BBC league table if you select Surrey secondaries. Whilst a league table would only inform part of my decision, I think there is some interesting data on there - esp English Bacc. info... and also some strange anomalies - eg city of london freemens. Get the information from the school itself I'd say.

Oh that league table is very interesting. I wonder what the results will be like next year - especially as I know children were in tears at a certain school's entrance exam. If the results are similar those children may well have achieved better by going to the local comp.

Anyhow it is all about doing the best you can for your child.

I agree. When you consider the overall points at some of the comps and remember that represents an average of over 200 pupils, i bet the 'top set' data is pretty impressive

ok so now you've got me thinking as to why next year could be different again???? as you can tell have an interest in these schools !!

I considered both very thoroughly last year when deciding where to send DDs 4 and 11, changed our minds over and over but finally settled for GHS.
Both girls are of a shy nature, I too was concerned GHS wouldn't be right for this reason but a friend suggested simply entering them for a few schools, seeing where they got offers and said if my DD gets into GHS due to their selective nature it means they believe it is the right school for DD and they will cater for her and allow her to thrive.
I considered long and hard smaller more nurturing school but am very glad I went with GHS in the end. The juniors is very caring from DD's time in reception so far and DD who is in seniors is similarly thriving, the pastoral side seems brilliant, very on top of issues and very approachable caring staff.
In regards to results have a look at GHS website, bottom of this page
www.guildfordhigh.surrey.sch.uk/seniorcurriculum

Have heard great things about St Cats prep and with Tormead I have heard mixed things with regard to the new head (love or hate- i liked her), DD disliked Tormead (cried through the assesment and got a place still) wheras at GHS she settled quickly, didn't speak much in the assesment I was told, but did all the tasks happily and got a place. I liked Tormead looking around but prefered GHS.

I would say go with my friends advice, enter her into a few schools of different types e.g. academic, nurturing smaller, all round, prep only etc. and then see where she gets places, where she enjoyed the assesment day and decide from there.

Let?s face it, average GCSE point scores of 591.8 (GHS) and 555.6 (T) are not particularly impressive for a selective school! If A* =58 and A = 52, the average child in those schools is either studying fewer subjects or not achieving top grades.

An able child is an able child whether they attend an independent school or a state comprehensive. Children in the top sets of local comps typically achieve 700 ? 800 GCSE points because the top sets sit more than 1 GCSE for their subject. For example, able linguists will study two modern foreign language GCSEs in parallel and, if they wish to do so, will also sit two Level 2 Latin certificates.

Banter, where do you see point scores, never seen them before for gcse? am i going crazy or is 10 gcse's at a* = 580 points not pretty good anymore ???
how many are these kids sitting?
crikey in a few years time my kids will be sniffing at my qualifications if that's the case !

On the DfE website. This www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/group.pl?qtype=NAT&superview=sec&view=aat&set=2&tab=55&no=999&sort=ks4_11.ttaps&ord=desc should link to the one for the KS4 exam results for English secondary schools, in descending average point scores. You do have to be careful because some schools use GCSE equivalents to bump up their position in the performance tables. If you look at the best 8 GCSEs for high attainers, you'll see where that might be happening. Alternatives to GCSEs have their place, by the way, even for the brightest students. The most appropriate extension qualification for them to take in addition to their maths GCSE might be the Free Standing Maths qualification rather than statistics GCSE, for example.

The other place to look is the Exam entries where you'll see how many GCSEs the average student at that school takes.

My sons year is this years year 11, so I have more invested in it. Its scarey to think people were desperate to get kids into certain schools, but may have done better at the Comp after all. (DS might do better if he worked.)

"(DS might do better if he worked.)"

Don't worry too much, mummytime. IME they hide it well. I was a prize nag throughout Y11 with seemingly no impact. We were delighted with the results when they arrived which were definitely in the "Able Student" range (but by no means the best at the school). I'm now trying my very best to limit the number of times I chirp on about not being complacent / A levels are much harder than GCSEs, etc.

Thanks all!

Mummytime, I don't think you are too harsh and I did think about your comments carefully and I think they are reasonable.I searched all of the threads about these two schools and it seems that you are quite farmilair with the schools in this area and I believe you have much experience about the schools as well. Thanks!

Londoners01, I did reviewed all of your threads about your last year's choices. Thanks very much and I will take my daughter to the assessments of all of the 3 girl schools and I'll see how the situation is at that time.

As to the league table, although the results are quite out of my expectation for these selective schools, I think I should not make any conclustions by just this table. Also, there are some other different ways to rank those schools. I'll give you link below.

www.suttontrust.com/research/degrees-of-success-he-destinations-tables/

I don't know how to insert a link here.

The name of the report is:

Degrees of Success - HE Destinations tables

There are lots of reports about the schools on suttontrust website.

According to these reports, I would say all of the 3 individual girls schools in Guildford and RGS are very good schools and children who can rank as top 40% in these schools can definately go to a good university. However, this is only about university destination. But there are many different aspects in children's education. As parents, the only thing we can do is just try out best to give children more choices.

By the way, I came from a country where the competition is fierce and so children have to study hard. I didn't expect there were also sharp competition in UK (I read some threads in eleveplus website)

'children who can rank as top 40% in these schools can definately go to a good university. '

have a look at this, it is Guildford High's leavers destination list-
www.guildfordhigh.surrey.sch.uk/Mainfolder/misc_downloads/Guildford-High-School-Destination-of-Leavers-2009-2011.pdf

You can find similar for RGS/tormead i'm sure.

I would certainly say far more than the 'top 40%' are going off to good unis, I would say 100% are off to good unis! Would be very proud of my DDs if they were any of the girls on these lists off to any of these unis.

To give my views on GHS vs state/put my piece in generally! ...
My DDs are all current/ex GHS, two of them fairly shy by nature but came out dynamic, confident girls prepared for university and the real world. The school atmosphere is such that girls come out self-motivated and ambitious, at a state school (I'm a fairly realistic parent who does a lot to support DDs education outside school) realistically I'm not sure whether all my DDs would have been able to achieve the same.
I strongly think it depends on the individual girl what school is best for her. One of my DDs in particular (while being absoultely lovely!) is easily led by others attitudes and needed the supportive and academic environment GHS provided in order to achieve as she did academically as well as socially being somewhere she was valued for who she was and given a lot of support to keep on track.

Since leaving GHS, in the big world wide she has certainly got the motivation and focus to achieve in life career wise as well as with her social and personal skills, so I'm pretty sure it was the right choice.

In all honesty though, with younger DD I wonder if she could achieve the same at a local state...

Umm Happymum has a huge point as at one of the top Comprehensives in Guildford 40% of sixth form go to Times top 20 Unis, this is slightly less than 40% of the year group, but doesn't include gap year students or those who go to art colleges. So I would expect well over 40% of GHS to go to good Unis, as it is selective after all.