cambridge steiner school

[woolly76]

Hi all,
I have been looking into the cambridge stiener school, i went to the mother and baby group and found it....well, odd. Quite a serious, nature worshipy, cultish atmosphere, strange monotone singing and general cringy pagan hippy stuff, i was a bit concerned. Any experiences of the steiner school would be really appreciated!

As he commented when I pointed out his untruthfulness already in the first paragraph of the article you recommend:

"I don't take this nearly as seriously as you do.".

Just some very few more comments to give a glimpse of the nature of his writings:

On "The centerpiece of anthroposophical belief is [...] the access to esoteric knowledge available to a privileged few". This is a typical ideological kliche in "enlightened" polemic against spiritual views.

Probably everything Steiner wrote or said in lectures is published in German online in addition to being published in print. Probably all of it that has been published in English translation also is accessible for free online in English.

"Jazz and popular music are often scorned at European Waldorf schools, ..."

From "The art of turning white into black" by a Swedish Waldorf teacher:

"In my Waldorf school I teach children of all colours. We have a lively cooperation with a sister school in Soweto and organize daily works where the pupils collect money to help them. Of course the pupils have much gymnastics and sports (actually more than most of their friends in public schools). Of course they sing and play much modern music, also pop and jazz. The dialogue between teachers and pupils is open and warm.

My fellow teachers and I know that karma doesn't mean any fatalism: it teaches us to take responsibility for the here and now, to take every individual pupil seriously, trying again and again when we meet difficulties."

On "Natural processes, historical events, and technological mechanisms are all explained through the action of spiritual forces" just to take one of many more possible examples of P.S.' reliability and "truthfulness", see Anthroposphy and Ecofascism Examined, p. 19-20.

He lost his credibility as a consistently reliable source on anything related to anthroposophy many years ago, both as a demonstrably reliable source on publishes sources, as well as a truthful source in a deeper sense of the what Steiner said or the context of it at different times.

Try "On the stories of P.S." again.

Hello all, was following the thread with some interest for some time, it's getting more and more interesting. My daughter is in a Steiner Kindergarten and I have read a number of books about this style of education as well as the original works by Steiner himself. Before I am accused of being a "converted member of a cult", I have also read a lot of the articles posted on Waldorf Watch, trying to get a rounded view of this form of schooling. I can see that this tends to polarise people quite a bit, but as far as I can see most of the things said about Steiner education can also be said about any school with a philosophical or religious backing. I am an atheist and all religions and philosophies carry equal weight in my eyes: in one school a child is told that fairies exist (well, I tell my daughter Santa exists too, oh dear) and in another that some guy a long time ago used to walk on water, or sat under a tree and became enlightened. What it comes down to is that you choose what you think suits your child best, you vaccinate or not depending on what you feel is best (it's your responsibility as a parent after all!), you read the books that you feel are best. I don't think that watching TV (whether it contains demonic forces or not :-)) is time well spent for a four year old, nor is pop music, or dressing like a little madam. So a school that creates a lovely environment, teaches her about nature and gardening, caring for others (Waldorf KGs have a mix of ages), various crafts like woodwork and knitting, where she gets told fairytales, and will get taught to read and write when she is ready, seems alright to me!

It sounds like you have been taken in by the basket weaving, cookie baking, gardening and gnomes ! I was too., initially. I?m glad I did my research.

Have you seriously read Steiner and thought "Oh, ok, that's fine then ! " ? Any analysis of Steiner and his followers would lead people like myself to question what goes on within these schools and WHO is behind running them (Anthroposophist - members of a cult).

Of course as parents we can choose what our children are exposed to - but it's our responsibility (until they are adults) to make intelligent choices on their behalf. No, I would never allow my children to go to faith schools of any type, let alone a gobbledegook one such as Steiner/Waldorf predicated on mythology. Can actually read what Steiner wrote on "race" and ignore that too...?

I don't believe that anyone claiming to be an atheist would allow their child to be exposed even for a second to Anthroposophy. Of course one is free to ignore them and carry on with one's gardening ! Many other thousands of parents have chosen NOT to ignore them (usually because they soon realised that they were being brainwashed).

He was a member of Freemasonry which in some places have been quite selected towards specific religions or races.

Hi Tomten,

You make an interesting comparison between Steiner/Waldorf schools and more mainstream faith schools. I think there's an important difference, which is that if you choose to send your child to a CofE church school, for example, the ideas and culture to which they'll be exposed are generally pretty familiar. It won't be a surprise if they come home singing their favourite hymn and talking about bible stories. With a church school, you'll know what to expect.

Any responsible parent will do some due diligence on a school, especially so if they're paying thousands of pounds a year for it. The problem with Steiner/Waldorf schools is that some parents don't realise that this due diligence also means reading up on the obscure, esoteric ideas of Anthroposophy. They may or may not be happy about it when they do and if there are problems, it may also be too late. There's more serious and essential stuff behind this than fairies at the bottom of the garden, as I'm sure you know.

Luckily, there is a lot of information out there on the internet, both pro and anti. The problem is that these schools need to do more, a lot more, to ensure that parents make an informed choice.

Yes and I was horrified to read that they are constantly seeking PUBLIC funding for their schools. As tax payers we need to be aware that Steiner schools are not mainstream schools by any stretch of the imagination and should therefore NEVER receive public funding either here in the UK or elsewhere.

abc - if you read the article I mentioned earlier, you will see that his views on race were not just a case of Freemasonry (I had not heard about this - I have read about his membership of an org. which was the predecesor to the Anthroposphy "movement" which held deeply unsavioury views on race).

Steiner claimed concrete SCIENTIFIC knowledge regarding the "immature" brains of non-whites. This is where it gets really dangerous. As Staudenmaier says in his works, these people actaully claim a better understanding of history and science than the rest of us.

Dear TheBFactor, it sounds like you're very passionate about this and perhaps have an interesting story to share? Have you yourself or your children attended a Steiner school? I can see that we agree in terms of the similarities to faith schools however. If you read any religious text carefully you will find, at least I do, many things to disagree with (race, sexual orientation etc,etc), at the same time there are many good aspects which when applied moderately produce good results (love thy neighbour etc etc)! Would you be worried if your child's teacher had a religious background? How would you know if their ideas were being transferred to your child's education, it's only human after all to talk about what we believe in? In the end it's up to you as a parent to make sure that your child grows up reasonable, broadminded and non-judgemental.

MarkH1, I see your point in terms of familiarity, however as I did not grow up with any of this, and read the Bible (and other religious works) only as an adult, to me it makes little difference. I made an effort to research what Steiner was about so that I could understand what was going on at the school, I would have had to put in the same amount of work in any other setting! Agree with you about information though :-)

Thanks bfactor, i can well believe everything you say based on my limited experience and the reaseach i have done consequently , there isnt a chance il send my child to a steiner school.

Hi Tomten - yes - my boy was at a Steiner school. I don't wish to say which city it was in as the Steiner schools and their supporters monitor threads like these VERY closely. I am not being paranoid. I have actively criticised their "philosophies" on other forums (including leading newspaper forums) and discovered that they get them shut down almost instantly by threatening to sue the owners of the forum. I gather this has happened on this forum as well in the past from what others have said. Cults have never liked being exposed/criticised.

My son was with them for about 6 months before I actually realised there was something seriously wrong. Again, I can't say much more here as examples of what went on may give away my identity.

I have absolutely no problem with children listening to and actively particiapting in religious education. If their parents are believers, then I can understand why they would wish for their children to have the same sort of education. Perhaps I have not highlighted enough that I am very tolerant towards all the major world religions.

I went to private Protestant schools which had very devout head teachers, it didn't do me any harm, I even sang in church choirs ! My parents were extremely open-minded. I had an atheist dad and Protestant mum (she went to church and was passionate about her beliefs) but neither tried to force us to believe/ not believe. I became very political in my teenage years, read lots of politics/philosophy and began a journey which involved lots of discussions with teachers/professors, etc before I finally decided in my early 20's that religions were not compatible with my scientific/evidenced based world view.

My son is most certainly not being forced into non-belief. He is too young to decide now, but I have never objected to bible stories/historical stories at his current state primary school or to taking part in nativity plays, etc. I see world religions as an important aspect of world history and I don't wish to shut off debate on religious thought.

As I say a CULT following is very different to listeing to a few bible stories at school. In particular, I object to the anti-intellectual, anti-scientific, anti-Enlightenment theories of Steiner and his cronies. As someone who has friends and family from all corners of the world (my son goes to a very international school and has several black and Chinese friends) I have strong anti-racist and anti-fascist views.

Reading Steiner (in any language) offends me on SO many levels.

woolly - best of luck with your choices ! I just wish for everyone on this forum to be well informed before they make any decisions I wish someone had warned me before I exposed my child to one of their schools.

Hi all! I have a very positive experience of the Cambridge Steiner School. My two children both started in kindergarten and moved up to CSS primary school - they have learned a great deal in a child-friendly environment and didn't need to start formal education until they turned 6, in line with most European countries (btw I still haven't found any evidence that starting formal education at 4 is an advantage in any way). Some of the comments posted are so utterly alien to my experience as if they were about a completely different school! Some of it may have to do with personal outlook, some of it with other issues, I'm not sure. One way of looking at this (and other) schools in a more objective way is to read the Ofsted reports. Although I don't think they are the Bible they are written by experienced professionals who look into schools in some depth. More importantly the inspectors do not have any preconceptions or strong views about the best teaching methods or other issues - they simply look at what's best for children's well being and learning. You will find that the Ofsted reports for CSS are generally positive (outstanding for the Kindergartens). The reports are available on the Ofsted homepage and on most schools' websites. Hope this helps :)

Good to hear of a positive experience at the Cambridge Steiner School. My own (rather more limited) experience, despite some oddities, wasn't bad either. I just wasn't keen on the Anthroposophical basis of Steiner education when I found out about it, which is a deeper issue than the quality of any particular school. Having said that, the Cambridge school did nothing to ensure we knew what we might have been getting into with regard to the Anthroposophy. I feel they should have at least mentioned it.

The Ofsted reports are an interesting issue. Steiner schools (including Cambridge) are no longer inspected by Ofsted. As of 2009 they're inspected by the School Inspection Service (SIS). The only other type of school covered by SIS are those run by the Exclusive Brethren religious sect. There are some other questions around potential conflicts of interest, documented here: zooey.wordpress.com/2012/01/21/school-inspection-service-uk/

Hi ! my son also attends the cambridge steiner school kindergarden. for me it has been the best experience i could of imagined for my childs introduction to independence and education! When i pick him up after kindergarten he seems in such a lovely place almost healed ! (hope that doesn't come across to wierd!) it ha sfelt like a extension of my family home!
I know a little of antroposophy and it is all a bit strange but i feel very confident that neither my child nor I am being brain washed in any way. I think he is learning to be an amazing free thinking child with and strength of character and a love of nature, seasons, festivals. music and community.
I myself also feel really nurtured by the school and by being part of its community.
I now attend parent and child with my daughter and its a lovely calm place to be and there are so many different types of families. i wish i had discovered it earlier. i wish it was available as a free education option for every body as we will probably have to go mainstream at 5 yrs old

And yes Rudolf Steiner probably did have racist views but didn't most people in 1908??

That doesn't mean racist views should be perpetuated in 2012.

and they are definitely not at the school! it has a huge mix of cultures and celebrates all of them ( cultural and religious!) they are in NO way racist or freemasons or any of that! just parents and teachers who want to give children a gift of this wonderfull education!!!

Hi there - certainly Ofsted inspected the Buttercup Kindergarten this school year. The report is available at
www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/CARE/EY404691
and it makes important reading for all interested parents.
As for Steiner being a racist or even a Nazi - I'm not sure where this comes from. Please read the Wikipedia entry (again not the Bible, but more balanced views then some): 'Right wing groups had been rapidly gaining strength in Germany. In 1919, the political theorist of the National Socialist movement in Germany, Dietrich Eckart, attacked Steiner and suggested that he was a Jew.[29] In 1921, Adolf Hitler attacked Steiner in an article in the right-wing Völkischer Beobachter newspaper that included accusations that Steiner was a tool of the Jews,[30] and other nationalist extremists in Germany called up a "war against Steiner". In 1922 a lecture in Munich was disrupted when stink bombs were let off and the lights switched out.[31][32] Unable to guarantee his safety, Steiner's agents cancelled a next lecture tour.[22]:193[33] The 1923 Beer Hall Putsch in Munich led Steiner to give up his residence in Berlin, saying that if those responsible for the attempted coup [Hitler and others] came to power in Germany, it would no longer be possible for him to enter the country;[34] he also warned against the disastrous effects it would have for Central Europe if the National Socialists came to power'.
Anyway I think that the real issue is whether Steiner's theories on education translate in a good method for today's children - a method that certainly includes tolerance and respect for each other. Similarly I find the Montessori method fantastic - and am not bothered by the fact that Maria Montessori herself was a fervent Catholic!

Thanks Aans. I said that all Steiner schools are inspected by SIS, which I admit is not 100% accurate. Early years childcare provision in a Steiner setting, such as Buttercups at Cambridge will be inspected by Ofsted, as is the state funded Hereford Steiner Academy. The rest are covered by SIS. I think Buttercups is from age 2 whereas the main kindergarten at Cambridge is from age 3? That isn't clear from their web site, although the homepage does have links to both reports. The SIS report covers the main kindergarten up through the rest of the school. Anyhow...

Wikipedia, sadly, isn't a particularly balanced source of information. The 'talk' and 'history' pages on wikipedia entries relating to all things Steiner reveal the lengths that Steiner enthusiasts will go to ensure these articles paint a good picture. I don't know of a good history of Anthroposophy that is not also polemical in tone. Although clearly critical, Staudenmaier is certainly thorough and scholarly.

"...I think that the real issue is whether Steiner's theories on education translate in a good method for today's children" - Agreed. Unfortunately, objective, independent evidence for this is hard to come by. I've heard it said of Steiner kindergartens that "it's a bit weird, but the kids love it!". Read up on Anthroposophy and you'd be surprised how much of this weirdness suddenly makes sense.

A note about school inspections:
SIS was approved by the Secretary of State in 2006 and is staffed by a
Co-ordinating Inspector, approved by the DCSF and a team of inspectors most of whom are ex HMIs (Her Majesty's Inspectors) and all of whom are approved for their operations in SIS by DCSF. Ofsted, the Government's official
inspection body, monitors a certain proportion of the SIS inspections every
year to ensure that they are carried out with sufficient rigour and
according to Ofsted's laid-down parameters of inspection and reporting.
More info here: www.schoolinspectionservice.co.uk/

www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0MDSYxFpqxs%26feature%3Dshare&h=oAQEjeAObAQEP8z3vnFKrn47bp5mQHPQ19t2Y6fdNjfzgmg

Coming back to this a little late, with little new to add but I think it's also important to note that SIS inspectors are accompanied by a lay inspector who will be a Steiner trained teacher or with similar links to the Steiner movement. Their role is to comment on the schools adherence to the Steiner ethos and management arrangements. It's worth asking, as a prospective parent, why inspection of Steiner schools need these unusual arrangements.

There are plenty of good sentiments in the video anna links to, most of which you'll get in the promotional material for any school. However, it's worth finding out what Steiner schools mean by such words as 'holistic' and 'natural child development'. It may not be what you think. The allusion to the 'spiritual' in the video is a reference to Anthroposophy, of course.

2 years experience at the Cambridge school and the kindergarten. It was ok for a year, disastrous for the second. If I could turn the clock back I would have gone straight to the primary school (state) they re now in. Kids feel the same.
Anthroposphy is bizarre and does penetrate every aspect of the curriculum (it just takes a while to see that). No black crayons in kindergarten, no corners on paper, no pictures on clothes, no children wearing black, no printed word, nothing that is not made of natural metal, wool, cotton, wood, wax or silk, preference of pentatonic harmonies, swirly paintings, an aversion to lines in general. These are rules with anthroposophic reasoning; children are not fully incarnated till they're 7, or until their teeth start falling out. (yup that's the sign of a fully incarnated child lol ) Special needs are caused by past life issues blah blah blah. Ask about these things specifically at the school if you don't believe me. Steiner education is bonkers and often chaotically run. Stay away if al this sound like nonsense. If you can buy into this, it's definitely the place for you. :)

PS Two years with 2 kids; one in school for 2 years, one in kindy for 2 years.

I had a lodger who was training to be a Steiner "teacher".

Her training involved playing with soil and doing things like painting the colour red. For a whole day.

Me: "how was training today?"
Lodger: "we explored red"
Me: "OK... how?"
Lodger: "well we painted a piece of paper red and then thought about how we felt" etc etc

While I appreciate that colours can influence mood I don't need a spoilt, daft girl to show me that!!!

Oh she was also of the view that I had willed my own mother to die and that it was OK because she was probably reincarnated in India. Words cannot describe the insult of her mentality. And I can only hope that the rest of the "teachers" don't subscribe to this rubbish.

My only other experience of Steiner school is of a friend's mother who had been sent from her rich family on the proviso that she had no need of a real education and that she'd marry a rich man anyway. Her words not mine.

Not all Steiner schools are the same. Some are very fundamental, radical, fascist and downright dangerous institutions. Others are very genuinely nurturing and and offer a very well balanced and academically competent curriculum.