moving back to the uk and keeping the children's 2nd language going...

[DebInAustria]

Hi, we're hoping to move back to the UK this summer afer 5 years in austria. ds1 is 10 and ds2 is 8, so they are both pretty fluent German speakers. How important do you think it is that we move to an area where the secondary school offers German gcse ? (currently torn between 2 areas, one does german and the other doesn't)
Has anyone tried to keep the language going by tv, books, etc...?

I would LOVE my children to have a second language. If they are fluent now and both secondary schoools are pretty reasonable then I would be inclined to go with the one that offers German GCSE. Saying that, I guess the kids are young and there is no certainty that they would choose German as a GCSE!

I would try to find out the hidden network too. There are a lot of classes around here for "mother tongue" speakers of various languages; Swedish, Spanish, German saturday school etc. Most schools will let mother tongue speakers sit GCSEs in their mother tongue even if the school doesn't offer it (the school I was working in allowed pupils to sit for example GCSE Bengali). There will probably be German speakers around too, who can offer tutoring.

This probably doesn't help you decide though!

I agree with mummytime in that our school (with a fairly international intake) offers Russian, Mandarin, Cantonese, Arabic, etc GCSE without offering classes in any of those languages - so if you can enable your children to keep up their language in another way, they will be able to take a GCSE in it regardless of whether the school formally offers it or not.

I intend to try to keep DD's language skills up too. She is extremely good at speaking German, but, as the country we are moving to teaches Dutch we may struggle.
She was virtually fluent in Thai when we left Bangkok, but I thought that wasn't worth bothering with as there's only one country in the world she could use it. My DD is clearly gifted at languages unlike her mother.

If Gcse German is anything like I remember it, your children would be able to do it tomorrow with their eyes closed. I was completely rubbish (never really got much past "how do i get to the station?" and "i am a petrol pump attendant") and still managed to get an A.

I would say that the critical thing is to keep the German going between now and then- maybe try to find them some German speaking friends/ hire a German au pair or something.

I therefore wouldnt prioritise the German GCSE school as they can always sit it privately and the harder thing will be to maintain the level between now and then.

Can you try to watch German telly?

Thanks everyone, like you say they would probably find german gcse very easy, and yes we will try to continue having german tv. Also thought about having a german student to stay.

I used to work in language therapy with bi- and multi-lingual children. Don't leave it more than a few months without german as they will lose the language very quickly. although they will be able to learn it again, it will be like anyone learning a second language. the brain dumps unused linguistic patterns after the age of about 7 very quickly. If you leave it even 6 months, they will have words but find sentences very hard. Very dramatic loss.

Which school do you prefer?

I would go for the area, and the school that you like best, regardless if they offer German or not. The standard of German that they will "learn" in school will be so easy that they will not be challenged by it at all.

German TV, contact to other German speakers, German books, holidays in Germany or Austria will all help much more than a once a week class in school at a very low level.

I just conducted oral exams for GCSE German for children who've moved back to the UK. They were year 9 and below. The school they're at won't let them do GCSE in a language that they are already fluent in, as they think they'd be better off learning a second one, and they can't provide higher level material for them if they do take that language.

Having seen these students I think that the school is taking the right approach, but it is then up to the parents to make sure they keep speaking it. One of those students will be lucky if he gets a C grade, despite being educated in Germany until he was 11. Three years later he doesn't bother speaking it with family members (although his sister does and was brilliant) and has really lost his ability to do so; although when I marked his mock exams for the other elements he was fine.

I think the trick might be to keep them using Skype or MSN or something similar with friends from Austria, so that their spoken skills remain high, then some books and films for reading and listening. Then the difficult one is keeping the written skills up to scratch. Penpals will help to some extent, but (and this is tricky) ideally you need to persuade them to write more specific things once in a while, to keep up their written grammar and vocabulary. For GCSE they just have to be able to use 3 tenses, and a range of ways to express their opinions. So if every now and then you can get them to write about what they did at the weekend, what they want to do for the summer holidays, describe themselves/family/pets/friends/school with opinions, they'll maintain a GCSE standard with no trouble.

I appreciate that they are still very young, but not as many schools do German as do French and Spanish, so it might be difficult to find one; and it was really sad for me to see the boy who had just let it all go.

Sorry, I meant above that the school doesn't let them take German as an option. It entered them for the exam for free, and paid me to come in and do some prep with them and the oral, so they are actually pretty supportive.

Also, with German students coming to stay etc, you'll have to make it very clear that you want them to speak German to the children, otherwise they'll view it as an opportunity to practise their English, and your children will probably encourage this

I am a language teacher and my advice would be to not worry so much about German GCSE schools, but to try and find a school or college that will allow the to take their GCSE German soon as exterior candidates. Also try and ensure they keep up the language. They must still have friends in the area, encouraging them to keep in contact and go back occasionally will help. Perhaps you could suggest to them to keep a diary in German?
I might be inclined to encourage them to speak German to each other, as their private language. Basically anything that you can do to encourage them keeping it up is a good thing, but GCSE is far down the track, so don't worry about making it the basis for your choice of school.
If you need any help trying to find somewhere that will allow them to sit GCSE German as exterior candidates, do ask.

Oh yes, private language is a good idea for an 8 and 10 year old. I didn't think of that. Will file that one away for the future.

I don't understand your comment Fingon.

Thanks very much for all the comments, and taking the time to think about my predicament.

MMe L - I like the look of the school which does offer German but I prefer the other village!

Macmomo - I'm quite surprised that they lose it so quickly, will have to work hard to keep it going.

Fingon - thanks for all the information, it's really helpful. From what you say I don't think ds1 would have a problem if he took it now but I don't know how he'll be in 6 months time or so, I think ds2 would struggle a bit, as he's only just finished the 2nd class here.As for having a student dh and I would speak English to them (as our German is still very bad)

Thanks for your offer of help Loopyloops, we're moving to Northumberland/County Durham area. When we moved here I expected the boys to speak to each other in German so that we wouldn't understand but they never have, only when they have friends round.

They break up from school on Friday and now I have to turn all this around and try to get them up to scratch in English!!!

Hi DebinAustria! I was once in a similar situation to your kids (native English speaker, moved to German speaking country/school for several years before returning home age 10 ish).

All I can say is don't underestimate how quickly they will lose the ability to speak the second language if you don't very actively keep it up. We moved back to the UK at the start of the summer holidays, and by the time the schools (and German classes) started in September, and a lot was already forgotten.

One of my siblings specifically went to a high school that taught German GCSE on our return, but tbh this didn't really help as it wasn't the sort of German that you'd speak normally, but much more formal etc (and not really aimed at the right level). So I'd say don't pick a school based solely on that, but instead look for a native speaker class or group outside the school.

Failing that, perhaps you could encourage your DC to speak German to each other when at home, or (if you can speak it too), everyone speaks German at the weekend for eg.

Do they have friends in German that they could set up email with? That would help keep up their writing skills and keep them in touch with native speakers of their own age.

Good luck, I really wish that we'd made more of an effort to keep up our once fluent German, as i've had to re-learn as an adult and it was bloody hard!!

whiteflame - that's really interesting to read, thanks for your reply. I'd gone along assuming that as their German was so good they would just remember it.

it's quite interesting actually, i told people for years that i spoke fluent German (because I certainly did while I was there), and then one day it hit me that I knew hardly any German anymore. my siblings all lost the ability too, so i'm not just an oddball

That is very interesting.

We are hoping that our DC will be able to keep up their French when we leave Switzerland but that is looking unlikely without a lot of effort.

i should stress too that when i say 'forgotten' i don't mean it's as if I never spoke German - the language feels sort of comfortable. Hard to describe, but if someone says a German word I don't know, I could still use it in a grammatically correct way.

But there's a sort of stumbling block on all the forgotten vocab I guess. It's an odd feeling, sort of like groping around a dark room that you know really well

I don't know if French groups might be a bit easier to find in the UK MmeLindt?

Definitely worth the extra effort!