Expat packages - what to expect?

[wonderingwondering]

We've been asked to live abroad for a few years for DH's work.

I know it is usual to expect housing, school fees plus some extra salary for being overseas, but how many (long haul) flights home per year should we ask for? Is it reasonable to ask for business class flights? For a family of 4?

Dependant on location I should think. If it's a hardship location, where I am now, we get economy flights to point of origin every 6mths. If it's not classed as hardship it's every 12mths. We only get business class on mob/demob flights.

In fact if they were going to offer you business class 1/year, I'd try to transfer that into economy 2/year instead.

Where are you off to?

Does the company have lots of expatriate employees or are you a one-off?

If they are used to sending employees abroad, they will have a policy and you can like it or lump it.

For school fees, it depends on the country. If it is foreign language, you can reasonably expect school fees to be paid. If it is English speaking, westernised, then they may well say that local schools are adequate, unless your children are in exam years and should really be in a British curriculum school.

What you get really depends on the company. When we moved to the US, the idea was for the assignment to be a smooth and burdenless as possible.

We got business class flights, plus a cash equivalent of business class fares for trips home each year for the whole family, and the transition weeks at full business expenses. Our housing in our host country was covered in full, including a generous allowance for bills. The size and neighbourhood was equivalent to similar status local employees (ie big). We were expected to rent out our house in the UK, but agent fees were reimbursed, and a guaranteed minimum should the house be empty. Our full household goods were transported by air and sea.

We had the services of a relocation agent who sorted out contracts, connected utilities, arranged schools, hire car, pick up from airport etc.

We had expatriate medical insurance which was very good.

Salary was the UK one with a 10% foreign service premium, plus a $10k per year spouse hobby fund. We had interest free loans for cars and appliances, and had a minimum depreciation at the end of the assignment. Taxes were prepared for the duration of the assignment plus the two transition years, and taxes with full tax equalisation.

Our cats were transported there and back, and UK quarantine covered in full on our return.

But we did have to use local schools.

Thanks, that is really helpful.

It will be the Far East, probably Singapore. And DH is setting up a new project, so there's no precedent to follow. So I don't really know what to ask for.

I can see how a fair deal can be reached on essential, quite fixed costs like schooling and housing, and I'm prepared to accept some of the costs of living overseas, for the experience, and DH is quite senior so he's quite well compensated anyway.

But the airfares are huge (£12k business return for 4 of us) and that's a barrier to me popping back to the UK with my (young) children, alone, which I'd have to do - DH won't want (or be able) to spend too much time back in the UK. And I'd want to come back at least a couple times a year, so even for 3 of us (without DH), that's £20k. Which seems a lot to ask for, but in another way, we're 13 hours away from our extended family, and there's a cost to that, and I suppose my starting point is that DH's firm should share that.

I like the idea of a spouse's hobby fund very much indeed...

Bloody hell. We've been hard done by.

Like the spouse hobby fund idea.

Expat packages are very varied. Ours in reasonably good. Home leave once a year, business class only for transatlantic flights (changed since the start of the financial crisis, used to be all flights).

House rental covered, but not local expenses such as gas, electricity, etc. We do get a generous cost of living adjustment payment, to compensate for the higher cost of living in Switzerland.

The move was handled by the company, relocation agent, househunting trip with accommmodation paid for a week's househunting, flights to Geneva, allowance for babysitter/childcare while househunting.

We had the choice of local schools - officially our company states "if local schools are not to home country equivalent" but generally as soon as there is a language barrier, international schools will be covered.

Tax consultant to do our tax, you really don't want to have to handle that yourself.

Language school for you and your DC. Private lessons are great. If you can, wait until you have been there for 6 months before you start lessons.

Work out what your cost of living is at home, and what your cost of living will be in the new country. What is the difference? That is what you want covered, and a bit more to make up for the "inconvenience".

If I were you I would ask for 2 or 3 home leave flights in economy rather than one in Business class.

We went to the US pre-DD and kept our British salaries - which were way lower than US equivalent - but also kept our British holiday entitlement, which was way higher than US.

Fabulous accomodation provided and four-flights home each per year, which we could transfer to family so that they could come and visit us instead. We were there just onder two years and 'paid' for both sets of parents to visit and SIL & her boyfriend. Fights were all economy but DH and I usually got upgraded to business classa s we were such frequent fliers.

Left the cat at home with my brother and tbh the company would have laughed at us if we'd tried to take him at their expense.

We did not have a pet when we moved here, but pet travel is covered by our package, lilR.

Not Singapore but we spent 2 years in Beijing and went there on an expat package (again a senior position)
We were given housing in an expat compound a fklat not a house but it was 15 minutes walk from DH office and in the city most houses there were in the suburbs)
A company car
Schooling was covered fro the age of 3 up in an international school
The salary was the same as in Germany where the company is based but the taxes are lower in China.
We were flew in business class and were opted for a cash travel budget equal to the cost of 4 business class flights back to the UK (1 per family member per year). We actually ended up using as one ecomomy ticket to UK and the rest on holiday flights.
Also they paid for 6 months of lauguage lessons too.
We paid our own bills and did not have a spouse hobby allowance
Oh and as we had no pets I cannot comment on if they would have paid expenses of transport and qurantine of not.

Thank you all - was out yesterday and last night so didn't check back for any more replies. But really useful to get an idea of what to expect.

I think the idea of a 12-15k travel allowance (4x business class returns) per year sounds reasonable, and I guess I could travel economy or premium economy to increase the number of trips home if I wished to. Although it does seem to be quite common for expats to come home quite infrequently - I suppose you get settled in your new life overseas?

I'd also wondered about the house-and-school-hunting trip, and was going to ask for that, quite soon actually, before the project gets too advanced and DH gets committed to it.

IMO, the expats that go home very frequently are the ones who are most unsettled and unhappy in their new homes. Particularly the children find it difficult to go back to life abroad when they have seen the family and friends that they miss from home. We were advised not to go back in the first 6 - 8 months so as not to unsettle the children.

House hunting and school hunting trip is very important. Our company would not allow us not to do one, and I am glad that they insisted. Seeing the place first hand and looking at the houses, getting a feel for the surroundings was very important.

We are in the Middle East and it varies on the grade of the employee.
Basic MFS (married family status) package is
free accommodation (3 bed villa on expat compound) and 2 x cattle flights a year for employee, spouse and 2 children (they only sponsor 2 children which is a bummer as we have 4!)
Managers get a house boy (a little man that 'does' washing, ironing, cleaning etc) He comes in 5 days a week (we can have him 6 but always let him have the weekend off) usually works from 7am to around 11am/12, depending on how much work there is.
Managers also get 2 x business class flights a year instead of economy.

Senior execs get a bigger house, house boy and a driver (and car/petrol allowance) Sadly my DH doesn't work hard enough to get that

Huge plus is no tax and a fairly decent bonus once a year and two other smaller ones during the year.
School fees paid if kids at school our here and allowance of 3k per term per child if they are sent back to boarding school in the UK.
Used to get overseas allowance/danger money but that was gradually reduced over a 3 year period.

Yes, I can see that frequent trips home could be unsettling for the children, actually. I hadn't thought of that, more that they'd miss their GPs etc. But I can see you have to commit to your new life rather than keep popping back to your old one. Perhaps I'm approaching it the wrong way, in thinking about coming back the UK too much.

This has helped me clarify my thinking, thanks again

cross posted with mumoverseas - thanks also. Another useful reference point. Am getting quite a good feel for what's reasonable.

We found getting the GPs to come to visit us much more unsettling for the DC (and gave us the chance to go off and explore the new surroundings sans DC)

When we first moved overseas, we were just two. 10 days into our new life, dd was made (I know this due to arguements with insurars). Since DD has grown up a bit and we've moved closer to the UK, she has seen much more of my parents. They tend to visit us two or three times a year. They have spent every christmas with us for 9 years and never missed DD's 4-8th birthday parties. DD is now very miffed that they won't be coming next month.
I'd agree with the others, don't go back to your home country too frequently. Children need to make new friends rather than getting into a pickle about seeing their old ones.

Er, getting GP to come and visit was less unsettling for the DC.

Thanks. Mine are quite young - will be 5 and 4 when (if) we go. So quite adaptable I hope, but I can see it would be confusing to be coming and going back to our old home.

My parents in particular are keen travellers, they've practically booked their flights despite the fact we're not definitely going!

My DH is with the wrong company! When we relocated, we had rent paid for 2 months in a dodgy hotel apartment, no help to find accommodation, no school fees or help to find a school, no help with finding doctors etc, no language tuition, no acknowledgement that the kids or myself existed and no flights paid at all. They did however, pay for the furniture removal but only after a dispute as they thought it should have been done cheaper.

DH wonders why I dislike being here!

Oh, just remembered.

They also paid for car hire for one month (I think, maybe longer) and transport to and from airports on departure from home location and arrival at expat location.

make sure you budget your housing allowance correctly. It issizeable these days. If you want to be central, a good house with garden and pool will set you back around $20k.Around $12/$16 for a simple terraced. A big family flat in a condo will be $10/$15k.

Thanks Slim - assume that is per month? So around £(UK)10k for a well-located family house?

And while the idea of a house appeals, is a condo a good idea? I know we wouldn't have our own outdoor space - is that manageable with small children? Does living in a community make up for that? Or is it a bit intrusive: I don't like high-density areas in London, so not sure a condo/appt is going to be my preferred option. But then being in a safe and contained complex I suppose might have advantages when setting up a whole new life.

yes per month.

Am saying because I see more and more people coming in with high expectations of major lifestyle overhaul and being a bit shocked by the prices. Especially if you leave your own house.
That said, there are lovely other options if you keep an open mind about the location.

There are some very nice maisonettes within condos.
Condo living is not really intrusive. It is a gated community but you retain your own space and you won't have people knocking on your door.
It is very good for families with young children as they will always have playmates around the pool and in the playground. It's very reassuring when you are a working mum as you do not have to worry too much about constantly organising playdates and having you maid take them out in a taxi.

Am happy to send you some options to look up before you come.
CAT me if you want more details.

Another post to consider is the car.
They are expensive and the COE on top makes new cars often unaffordable.
leasing schemes if you company runs one are good. And there are always expats leaving and selling their used cars. These are usually well maintained as MOT regulations are quite strict here.

Just to add to the collective knowledge for overseas moves.

We're not expat but local hire in Switzerland, having moved from the UK.

We had all the removal costs met, an allowance of about £7k for incidental expenses like replacing white goods and curtains (cash bung, no receipts necessary), a week long house hunting trip for all 4 of us, flights over for the move, 100 hours of private language tuition and our taxes done for the first year.

We also had a free hire car for the 10 months it took to choose and order the final leased one.

And a 'my, isn't Switzerland expensive' pay rise.

The kids are local school, we pay our own flights back to the UK and we're responsible for our own taxes, as we just have Swiss ones to worry about.

Thank you.

And thanks for the offer of more details, Slim, once things look a little more definite I'll CAT you - would certainly appreciate any advice or info you can give.

We're in Singapore too. Slim just assisted us with our move - can wholeheartedly recommend her whatever your budget may be.

DH was offered the choice of an expat package or what they call local enhanced package. Difference being expat would get 2 business class flights home a year (in cash equivalent) and based on UK salary with tax equalisation plus housing allowance (was just the 2 of us when we moved here) but would have included school fees too.

He went for the local one as we didn't want to just be restricted to 2 years here then him having to go back to any available job in the UK as it could be something he really didn't want to do. What we got instead was all relocation costs paid plus generous furniture allowance, business flights out here plus monthly cash housing allowance. Paid in SGD so manage our own taxes although company pays accountants to do this and UK ones for us.

You might also get money for Club fees i.e. to join the British Club - we've just got this as DH was promoted recently.