Singapore - here we come!

[AnotherMotherNomad]

We are leaving London next week - I can't believe it.

I wanted to ask the very helpful Singapore based community if there is anything you think would be good to bring with us. Anything that is expensive or difficult to get out there? Any suggestions welcome! Shopping doesn't seem to be much of an issue over there, but I thought it was worth asking.

In my experience, bras and swimsuits, especially if you are generously proportioned! I can never find anything in my size here, and have a shopping spree at Debenhams every summer when we come back for our hols!

Good luck with the relocation

Wonderful - I'm doing my packing now, and trying to organise everything for June 10, so am right behind you AnotherMotherNomad!

Yep, definitely clothes, as even the size 16 at the local M&S feels smaller than the UK ones. READY BREK if your children eat it - my hubby finally found it at the Cold Storage (vivocity) selling for a whopping £6.00! (OK, if you're on a generous expat package, that would be affordable, but...!). Shoes, if you have ultra wide feet and can only fit into Clarks

Good luck to you both. Would ditto clothes advice but for the kids too as can be $$$ here. Have just been back to the UK and stocked up on next size clothes for DS in Next/Supermarkets etc.

I always stock up on shoes, school shoes, bras, clothes, Yorkshire tea and Pimms when in the UK.

Clothes here are very expensive and school shoes are very hard to buy.

PS good luck with the move!

So the day has finally arrived for us. The movers arrive tomorrow, internet access will be suspended (not looking forward to the withdrawal symptoms!), two more days of frantic cleaning up the place before we fly on Wednesday! Woo hoo!

Good luck and have a safe flight.

Wishing you a safe journey!

Hi - just heard my DH has potential job in Singapore. We have 2 dd's (just 4 & just 2). Any advice on housing, schooling and living costs greatly appreciated. Just seen the offer from his work and doesn't include any assistance with housing or schooling so we need to make sure we are getting ahead - or at least staying standard with UK before he/we accepts. Any help appreciated. Have looked at the info on mumsnet re costs but it all looks about 2 years old and am sure things have changed. Thanks a mill

Hi bnz, we've been here now for just over a month. I have to say that I am still in shock over the cost of things. We also don't have housing allowance (or school), but were offered additional salary instead. In theory because tax is lower, you make up for higher cost of living. The problem we are finding is that this added salary/tax saving is going to be "spent" 100 times over to cover the cost of high rent, food, flights home, phone calls, etc. etc. So in the end, I think we are going to be worse off.

The biggest shocker is housing. Even coming from pricey central London Singapore rents are extremely expensive. Brace yourself for this. We realised we had to compromise on space, or location, or condition, or price, or something else.

My dd is not school aged, but everyone has warned me about the cost of international schools (and wait lists). Local schools are an option to reduce cost, however the academic culture is very different and priority goes to citizens/PRs. In London we were spoiled for choice in terms of free museums and kids activities. Many things here are paid. I took dd to Gymboree the other day and stupidly spent £20 for a 1 hour session!

Now, to be fair, you can of course live on next to nothing if you are going completely 'local'. But the second you start considering things like wine, or cheese, or tomatoes, or anything that isn't normally found in this region you are in trouble. And if you tend towards the 'organic' choices, you are massively in trouble!

So far, what cheaper seems to be: taxis, eating in food courts/hawker centres (which are usually very good and about £2/meal), any type of manual labour, and live-in domestic help - who (depressingly) you can pay a pittance and only give one day/month off! (Although it seems most expats offer one day/week off).

I probably sound negative, and maybe others will jump in and say my impression is wrong. I'm still adjusting. On the plus side everyone is very friendly, so your social life will probably be very active.

Back to your question: I spoke to a head-hunter, originally from London, and his advice was to calculate it as 1/3 in terms of cost of living and spending power. So for example a salary of: SG$100k in Singapore (for an expat) is equivalent to £33k in the UK.

I hope this helps! Excuse the essay!!!

AnotherMotherNomad - we are heading over to Singapore in 6 weeks, I am now a bit scared!

Managed to totally freak myself out looking at the cost of cars yesterday, can't quite believe the prices. Do you have a car? do you have any recommendations on places to buy/lease from?

We are very fortunate in that we have managed to arrange schooling and get it included in the contract, and hopefully we are sorted with accommodation - we keep being warned by people that there is a big difference between London prices and Singpore prices!

Any other hints/tips greatly appreciated.

We also moved 6 weeks ago with 3 children under the age of 6 and I had no 4 2 weeks ago so pretty hectic. Housing (rental) is expensive but again if you want to live centrally, I think as in any city you have to pay up. We have come from Central London (W1) and I also find it quite expensive - I nearly fell over at the cost of cheese - the children are now on rations! My eldest was at a prep school in London and the school fees here work out about the same. Extra-curricular activities are expensive - the indoor play centres etc but its worth it just to sit in the air conditioning! We made the fatal error of having the a/c on in the house as soon as we arrived, running all day until we got our first bill - I subsequently went and bought alot of fans! I think a few expats make this mistake!!!!
I am still finding my way around in the heat (its boiling) so maybe acclimatise (?sp) yourself by a few fully clothed sauna sessions before you come!
Otherwise I have yet to meet people with young children as am just venturing out with the new-born - just getting over the panic of him being too hot etc......so would love to meet up with anyone who is in my situation. Good luck with your move. Probably not really any help but thought i'd add my 2p worth!

We're pondering a move to Singapore. Do you find that you are indoors all the time due to the heat? I've lived in the ME and Africa - but that was dry heat - which is very different. Do people and espeically kids spend much time outdoors? Is there part of the year when the climate is nice outside?

Dh is in Singapore right now and already told me about the cost of a car Sounds crazily expensive out there.

Acinonyx no there is not really any part of the year when the weather is cooler/more bearable it's pretty much the same all year round. December- Feb are supposed to be the 'wet' season but ime it hasn't really made any difference. We spend quite a lot of time outside though in and out of the pool and also at the botanic gardens/children's garden. You do adjust eventually!

We've been here 3 1/2 years now and originally DH had a rental allowance this got rolled into his salary last year and he got a promotion with payrise otherwise I'm not sure the financial benefit of us being here would still be there. Housing is ridiculously expensive. We have just moved and now have an older but larger place as we wanted some outside space. It is very centrally located as we don't have a car.

We have one DS who was born here and not school age yet. Activities are expensive so you should budget for those.

@Freberclem Wow, I can't believe you relocated at 36 weeks pregnant. My hat is off to you! Have you had any luck finding other mums with tiny ones? I know of this group: www.nmsg-singapore.com and I saw a place in Tanglin Mall that was aimed at mothers & babies but can't remember the name.

@awayfromhome You are really fortunate to get schooling in your package, and if you have accommodation sorted too then I think you'll have a lot less stress. We are not planning to have a car - it's just one added expense that I don't think we're up for. Plus, taxis are relatively cheap. I suppose it depends on where you are going to live. Locals don't seem to walk anywhere, and to be fair, it is very hot. Also the layout here is very car based. To me most of Singapore looks a lot like an American suburb with more road than pavement, and shopping centres, or retail parks that you get to by road. When our estate agent drove us around our new neighbourhood she was bragging that it is full of restaurants & shops, and we were confused because we couldn't see anything from the road. It's all tucked away.

@Acinonyx If you don't have an offer yet, I would suggest negotiating really hard before you agree to move. Cost of living here is officially more expensive than London, (look up any recent ranking), even though it is considered a "low cost location". Local salaries are much lower than London. We thought we had a good deal, but now realise that we were probably being naive.

@singaporesling do you like it here after 3 1/2 years? I'm really struggling, but I expect it will get better. We are only here for a two year contract, and will definitely leave after that. (I know everyone says 'you may stay longer', but in our case it is 100% certain.) I can just about handle the idea of staying here for that time, but not really looking forward to it.

Acinonyx, consider a long term lease for a car. It's a while since we were there but we leased because of the cost.

Re: the heat. It's not that bad. The worst is when it gets hotter after rain and in the evening, just when you expect it to cool. But you will be in jeans again in six months I guarantee!

Anothermothernomad I think like most 'expats' I have times when I really just want to go home and others when I look back on my 'previous' life in London and would hate to go back - 1 hour commute to work, cold dark days etc. But I suppose one of the main differences for me is that we came here pre DCs were getting rent paid here and rented out our house in London paid off all our personal debts and a chunk off our mortgage plus travelled around SE Asia. We then had DS here and I made friends through that and also went back to work part time. We are both on local permanent contracts and so going back or indeed somewhere else will be when the right opportunity comes up for DH of course the longer that takes means increasingly we have to look at schooling. What I do enjoy is the lifestyle for example we spent most of this weekend in and out of the pool with DS.

Feberclem the place at Tanglin is Mother & Child - they have UK/Australian Health Visitors and run a well baby clinic and other courses. They also have a breast feeding cafe on Monday from 2-4 (if you're bfing that is).

I am happy to have a meet up as I couldn't make the last one because I work in the mornings. Maybe I'll start a new thread just for that so all can see. Will do so when I get a chance.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, seems that there is a lot to think about. Is there anywhere I can get reliable information about living costs -rent, food etc? Think DH is very very keen on this potential move and I can be persuaded just want to make sure we are not about to go backwards big time! Anyone know what the part time IT project/program manager job market is like? Don't want to get my work on 'alert' yet so need to find another way to suss thinks out. Does anyone have a nanny or know what they cost? To be honest am thinking I might just stay home and look after the kids but not sure with the cost of living we will be able to afford in Sing. sorry for rambling!

Most people with families (esp if both parents work) have live-in help here as it is affordable. Indeed it costs about the same to have someone full-time living-in as it costs to have them for three or four hours a week through an agency.

The helpers or maids often help look after the children. There are some nurseries but not many nannies around.

There might be useful info on expatsingapore.com

bnz - part time work here is virtually non-existent here. Most people regard me as extremely lucky and an exception!

Agree with Fleur most people have live-in maids. The daycare here doesn't seem particularly good from what I have seen of it and is expensive. Also for the majority of Singaporeans the grandparents look after the kids so there isn't so much demand for daycare.

For rent you could have a look at www.propertyguru.com.sg for an idea but again depends on your criteria and where you want to live and what you estimate your rental budget to be. Also you can get the prices down a bit from what is on there.

Thanks to both. Have tried expatsingapore.com but the info wasn't jumping out at me - perhaps because I am trying to do from afar. We havn't set the housing budget yet, but looking at the sites it seems we need 7,500 per month at least for 2,000 sq ft, 3/4 bed, low rise-ish. Does this seem reasonable. Bit worried about the childcare now, we both work full time in London. I don't know if I can get a job in SGP yet and even here had been considering going part time. We have a fab nanny here but looks like we might need to rethink these things.... Trying to stay positive as I know this could be a great opportunity for us, but seems there is soooo much to think about

Fleurdelacour just looked at expatsingapore, was confusing it with another site, thanks for the info!

Yes, $7.5k per month rent will be the minimum for a 3 bed appt. International schools are around $15-20k per year (lower end for young children), leasing a car $1.5k per month, I think.

A helper will be around $1k, perhaps a little more, per month. Although you'll need, then, to be happy that you appt has enough space for you to live happily with your maid there too, as the appts can feel quite cramped if you are used to a house in the UK.

Although tax is 15%, which helps...!

Goodness re helper: twas 400 about four years ago.

However agree you will definitely need one. Everyone has a maid, I mean, 99.5 pc of people, and that means that community childcare support is pretty minimal. If you have a network in the UK that you swap children with for, whatever, parents evenings etc, be prepared to be disappointed. In Singapore, if you don't have a maid it will be pretty one sided -- always you will be the one asking. And it won't be your friends looking after your children, it will be their maids, which is a bit exploitative if you don't pay.

ps "maid" vs "helper"

helper is a bit of a misnomer because they don't "help" they kinda do everything