Can I ask a couple of very honest questions of those who have moved to Australia?

[woosam]

I hope nobody is offended by my post, Im being honest to get the best advice possible as this is such a huge decision.

DH has been offered an excellent job in Melbourne. We need to make a decision by next Friday (have had a while)and we'd be going in October.

After reading everything I possibly can on just about every expat forum, there's something that is still holding me back and I'm not sure what it is.

Everything I read seems to say what a better standard of living it is. How the kids love it and how it's so much more of a family outdoorsy life. I'm wondering if this is true across the board? I mean, we have 3 kids, 2 in indie school, the other to follow. Six figure income, nearly an acre garden with tree house etc, lots of hols each year including an adventure/outdoor type one each year. We try to expose them to as much as possible regardless of the weather (yes, Im sure they'd rather watch tv one weekend).

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, is it going to be a better standard of living for us? I can see it is if you're living on a concrete estate, both working long hours to pay for it and you have a good trade qualification which means you can have a lovely house outside the commuting belts of either Sydney or Melbourne.

But I worry that other than the weather, we won't see much of an improvement in our standard of living yet we'll have uprooted the older two out of school (very difficult to get into in the first place)away from their friends etc.

I'm sorry if this sounds rude or blunt or self-absorbed. It's just that we only have a few days left to make an enormous decision and I owe it to my kids to make it the right one. Thank you.

Oh and if you disagree with me and know something I don't please, please tell me as I want to be as informed as possible.

Thanks for all the replies.
Theheathen, family isn't really a major consideration for us. My kids have no living grandparents, no cousins and just one aunt who they don't really see. We do have lots of friends though who I would miss greatly.

Weta, I have a DS who is 6 and two DDs who are 4 and nearly 2. DH is very keen. It's a good job and would be a big feather in his career cap. Definitely the sort of thing that would enhance his CV. Having said that, his current job is also very good, very well paid and to date he's had no problem with career progression.

Brightongirl, your comment that despite all the issues you feel the move has been, 'the making of you all' is probably the one thing that is making me seriously consider going. Maybe I just need to relax about it all.
Thanks again.

Woosam - It hasn't been an easy ride...I miss my friends more than family to be honest, even though I have an amazingly tight family unit, DH and i have almost split up and I have threatened to fly back to Blighty so many times...so be prepared! However I do believe I'm returning to the UK a much stronger, more confident person. DD is fighting fit and very resilient, considering she's seen her mum and dad have so many arguments . She already has so many great memories at 3 that I'm glad we've given her the experience.
It doesn't have to be forever and your kids are still young enough to adapt...
DH has quite a lot of friends in Melbourne who love the place. I'm going next month, so can report back and I am a harsh critic, considering I'm a Brightonian...

Thanks, Brightongirl. I'll have made the decision either way by then so if we're on our way, maybe you should water down your criticism!
Funnily enough, Brighton and Sandringham are the places in Melbourne where we'll be looking for a house so I, too, may be a 'brightongirl' come October!

Yesterday I was almost sure I didn't want to go but the posts on here have genuinely made me look at it again, perhaps from a different angle. I'll definitely post back with our decision at the end of the week.

Actually Woosam, if you do like winter then Melbourne is probably the best city in Australia for you! As I said further down, I found Melbourne winters to be similar to in the UK and the mountains are only a couple of hours away if you enjoy skiing, etc

Thinking outside the box for a moment - is there any way your dh could take the job and be a very long-distance commuter for those few years.

I know couples who have successfully had this arrangement, with the families staying in the UK, and the dhs working in Moscow and Nigeria (admittedly not as far away as Oz!)

The plus side was that the families enjoyed extended holidays immersing themselves in a new culture, taking advantage of the dhs new social network and inside knowledge of the place (with free accommodation obviously, staying at dh's home.)

Would mean you needn't risk losing the life you have now and clearly love. It's just weighing up whether the separation is doable emotionally.

Could this be a workable compromise perhaps?

Thanks Polly, but there's no way I'm taking that option. DH the other side of the world for 3yrs whilst I SAH with 3kids under 6-Not a chance!

Woosam, we came back from Hampton, Bayside in Feb. We were there for just over a year and it is certainly not long enough to judge whether you will live there.
We will most probably be going back in Feb next year as we have decided that we want to live there and our dd's future is more important.
There are lots of mn'ers living in Sandy and Hampton and Melbourne in general, they are just a bit busy to post, having and looking after new babies .
If you need any more help about Sandringham ask away, as I know it really well .

Hi Fizzytree,
Thank you. Sandringham seems nice as does Hampton. TBH, although Brighton has been recommended to DH, it seems stupidly expensive. Not that the others are cheap but overly expensive I suppose. Can I ask, what is the benefit of Brighton other than it being slightly further in?

With regards Sandringham; what are the schools like? We'd be looking at the independent sector as that's what we'd be coming back to in 3yrs. I haven't yet found a listing on indie schools in the Bayside area at primary level.

Also would like to ask about activities for kids? Indoor and outdoor.

And for mums? Are there M&T groups or coffee groups? Whilst the older 2 are at school there will me me and DD2 who will be 2yrs.
Thank you

And thanks to everyone else too, really appreciate it.

In my opinion, there is no advantage to living in Brighton. You have to live up to that kind of place, ie constant make up, nice clothes, even if you just pop to the shop. Hampton is really nice but still a little like Brighton, but Sandringham is lovely. Few little shops, right by the beach, small supermarket, real beachy seaside village. The hospital is also really good, invested interest there as I used to work there.
Houses still quite expensive, same train line as Brighton, 25 minutes to the city. Lovely lovely lovely. Parks everywhere especially right on the seafront with a short walk to the beach which is sandy and clear blue water. Masses of sport. They do something called Oz kick which is football and Milo cricket, loads of clubs. Tennis +++, Good clean public swimming pool. I had a two yr old (still have). she went to a really good nursery called Tulip st early learning centre, fab !! Also have a british toddler group in Hampton every wednesday morning.
Look, I could go on and on and on but I think Sandy is a great place to live and we will be going back there.
Expense wise, food is fairly expensive but there are ways round that. Myself and another couple of mnetters used to go to Queen Vic market every couple of weeks and buy meat, veg etc etc, very cheap.
You must be a tad bored now, so will go but if there are anymore specific questions do ask.

Thanks so much Fizzytree that's all really helpful. You're def swaying me slightly. DH coming home early tonight so we can hammer it out as he wants to give them a decision tomorrow.

Can I ask about independent primary schools in the area? Or very good state primaries that will allow easy transfer to the UK indie sector when we come home. Thanks

I'm beginning to feel more positive about it and if I can sort out schools then I think I may just agree to it.

Go for it Woosam!

Speaking as someone a bit behind on the children front (moved back to UK from Sydney last May to have first DC) my DH and I have spent much of the past 9mths wondering "could we go back in a few years?"...

Coming back to the UK was absolutely the right thing for us at the time - DH works long hours and is often away from home, travelling. I suffered PND and would never have been able to cope without the support of family and close friends here. I'd happily stay here to have future babies, but would seriously consider moving back out there with kids of your age.

Don't get me wrong, the previous posters are all correct in saying I think you get a bigger 'uplift' in your life circumstances if you leave here working class and struggling than if you're already pretty comfortable.
That said in our pre-baby days (only a year ago) DH and I are were very outdoorysy (mountain-biking, climbing, camping trips away etc) here and our time in OZ just magnified that for us - the beaches and mountains are just spectacular (summer OR winter!) and having them on the doorstep is wonderful. At 6mths pregannt I was doing 4day hikes and swimming with whale sharks which I'd never have had the opportunity to do here! There's a have-a-go attitude which is contagious and I think would be amazing for children to grow up with.

There are plenty of downsides (other posters have already mentioned them all - don't forget the traffic & Melbourne taxi drivers are generally useless!) but agree with Sibble to give it at least a year or two - you can always make the big move back/reconsider when your eldest starts coming up to senior school age. Given your circs, and in your shoes I would give it a shot. Another way of looking at it would be that in 20yrs time your kids may never forgive you if your didn't take the oppo now ...

There are lots of independent schools in the area, primary etc etc. Dd1 is only 4 so in Aus she would not start school until she is nearly six so have no idea about which one is best. I do know that they are not all the same fees, kind of like a tier system. You need to put a call out for Echt as she knows a bit about it and may advise you, echt tis lulalullabye.

Sounds like you may have almost made up your mind woosam?
Just remember, if you don't sell up in the UK you will always have a plan B...

woosum, 18 months ago we moved from the
UK to the US. A different set of circumstances entirely, but the reasons we wanted to move were

• the spirit of adventure, we both wished we'd travelled more (not that we have done that much, but still)
• we came for a visit beforehand and loved the schools, the area etc. we 'weren't doing badly' in the UK, but this is a cheap area to live, so we have a fab place now
• 'better' weather - there are real winters & real summers here.

just realised that doesn't sound a lot to uproot the family for, but dh was losing his job, so we were prob going to have to do a move across the UK anyway. we figured, we might as well go for it.

i miss my family a lot, and it has taken pretty much a year for things to feel like home. in some ways 3 years is easier, you can treat it as one long holiday/adventure. on the other hand, just as you get settles, you'll be off again, and you won't be able just to slip back into life as you knew. in the 18 months we've been gone, things have changed.

speaking to a distant IL who was visiting the UK from Oz once, he said that the first 3 years he felt ok coming back to visit, after that, it felt like the UK was foreign, and home was in Oz.

I think there are two reasons for coming here. (a) to have an adventure, and (b) to have a better life. If neither of the above apply I really don't see the point.

We have friends who will be going back to the UK in August after three years here. They came with the guy's work on a fantastic expat package that paid for rent (they are living in an amazing house on Sydney's Northern Beaches that they could never afford to buy), kids' school fees, all school expenses etc. They went away every holiday and explored Australia and New Zealand and in every way lived the dream. They have got their kids into an indie school from September and are going back to the house they love with a fresh outlook on life.

We on the other hand did "no going back" three years ago. DH was working crazy hours in London and living in Brighton spent hours commuting every day. The kids barely saw him and our relationship was, for the first time in 17 years, feeling the strain. We were left with very few close family members and, having lived here before pre-kids thought
"what the hell". We are living in a lovely place, three kids are in a fantastic private school and we are the cliched "we do SO much more here" family. Kids love it (which was always a gamble as they were 13, 8 and 4 when we moved) and I have just got my citizenship. However, DH is still earning less than he did in London three years ago and Sydney is eye wateringly expensive, particularly if you want to live somewhere nice.

It sounds to me like situation (a) applies to you so I would say go for it, make the most of every minute, keep your options open if you can at home re. schooling, make an effort to stay in touch with friends (it will be up to you to do that) and have a fantastic few years. Life is too short not to make the most of every opportunity that presents itself.

SunnyD, hello!!

So glad life has worked out for you here - actually very envious. Congrats on Citizenship!

Thanks brightongirl. Glad to hear that you're hanging on in there as well - thought you were heading back. We really must have that drink one of these days!

Hello everyone!
Just to let you know that we've decided to...

Give it a go!!!!

Totally wetting myself but very excited at the same time!
Thank you for all your input as it all genuinely helped.
See you on the other side!

Well done to you. Make sure you ask your DHs company give you a lot of help and support. Good firms like to keep families happy of key employees happy so dont be afraid to ask for what you need.

oooh how exciting have read this thread with interest

hope all goes well

you do have to take life by the short and curlies to really appreciate it!!

I have not done the move, though I have the opportunity (my husband is a Kiwi). We have talked about it, but after our last visit, we realised that our standard of living would actually go DOWN (due to rising living costs in Oz/NZ).

Having said that, I lived in Australia for a year in 2002, and I miss it every day. I get more homesick for Oz than I do for the UK. The only thing holding me here is friends and my kids' schools, as well as our relatively good standard of living.

If it is a short term (2-3yr) contract, and you are outdoorsy people, with kids in the mid-late primary bracket - I'd say go for it, so long as you take advantage of every holiday, every experience open to you. If you can take a long holiday prior to going back into the work 'thing', DO IT. Travel Australia with your 3 kids, do everything you can. It is an AMAZING country that a short (3wk) hol just won't cover. Your kids will LOVE it. But you do need to grab every opportunity (weekends, hols etc) to go out there and do it all, for it to be worth it IMHO.

Another friend who went out to Oz at the same time as me stayed in Melb for 12 months and hated it. I 'went bush', staying in the Outback on remote stations, travelling the vasts distances by every means imaginable. I LOVED it.

Sounds like you are not short of a few bob (I mean that in a nice way) so CAN take advantage of the experiences Australia has to offer. Do it for those couple of years, enrich your kids' life - they might not remember all of it but they will be too busy experiencing it all to be homesick!

Can you make an arrangement with their school to expect you back in 2-3yrs and make space for you? Are there any alternatives? Will you be going private in Oz? Will you be leaving a big family behind? Are they able to fund their own trips to visit you?

I will stop wiffling on. In short, if I was in your exact shoes, with your financial stability, and it was a short term contract, I'd do it. For me personally now, I cannot guarantee my kids' the same quality of life in Oz that they have here, so I wouldn't do it. But I do envy you (in a good way!!), I'd love to show my kids 'my' Australia.

Do let us know what you decide, and how you get on And if you need recommendations of 'must see' trips if you do decide to go, please PM me; I saw some incredible places off the beaten track that I would love to share.

Hi Woosam - Congratulations on your decision. I posted earlier on the thread and suggested there was nothing to gain, but I changed my mind! I didn't repost as didn't want to confuse you further.
I think you have made the right decision. You will all have an excellent time and then you can come back to your life. It will bond you as a family unit I am sure.
have a great time and remember the sun block!

Woosam, I'm glad you're going to give it a go because that's exactly what we are going to do (also Melbourne) hopefully next year...and we have no job to go to just fed up that DH is working all hours as a senior Exec. I really really hope it works out - keep us posted.

Thanks again everyone.
It was touch and go and I have to say when I started this thread I was fairly sure I was going to tell DH I didn't want to go. But just reading everything that everyone said simply made me look at it differently. MN is fab sometimes but I will hold you all responsible if it's bloody awful over there!

Spaceforthree, do you know whereabouts you'll be in Melbourne? Maybe we could email and I could pass on all of my (then) 6mths experience to you. At the very least, post on here before you go and I'll try and say hi.