Anyone in Amsterdam? What's it like?

[HairyMaclary]

There is a possibility of my DH getting a job in Amsterdam, so I'm just starting to look at what that may involve as our family is a bit complicated. DS1 age 5 has cerebral palsy and while he is mostly working at a normal reception level he does have a statement and a lot of physical needs and equipment! What is the healthcare system like - how does it work?

We don't speak any Dutch and are both very bad at languages but I understand most people speak good English, is that right? What is the living like there - I assume there is an international school - what's that like? Is it family friendly - all I know of amsterdam is the red light district and legal cannabis although I've never been there!

I have lots of questions and I don't really know what they are? Does anyone have any suggestions of where else I might look for info.

Thanks! I am quite excited about the possibility but also slightly worried about whether it is going to work.

I live in Amsterdam and it is fabulous

The healthcare system is amazing. You do have to pay for it monthly (by law), but it includes MANY things and services/referals get dealt with super fast. I've been really impressed. So I don't think you's have any worries. My insurance company is Zilveren Kruis, why not google them and call to speak with someone about your DS and what the insurance company can do for you?

As far as Dutch goes, there's no real need to speak it as everyone speaks great English. Your children would probably pick it up fast in school if they went to a Dutch school. Everyone is really friendly and happy to include you if you make an effort to join in.

Cost of living is VERY high here. Rent is extortionate. Groceries are too. I love it here though so I have stopped weeping every time I do my weekly shop.

A great website to trawl through is expatica.com, go to the Netherlands site. It really helped me a lot when I first got here. Also there is a meetup.com group called "Amsterdam Moms Meetup Group" that you could join to speak with other Mums.

Oh thanks wrinkly raisin! It sounds very positive! I like the sound of the healthcare system! I will have a look at those sites - I'm a bit ahead of myself atm as DH hasn't yet been offered the job but because there is a lot to consider I want to be well informed if he does get offered it.

I think he would be on a v good salary, but that may get eaten up with the cost of living if it's so high - lots to think about - thanks!

Are there any other MNers out there?

Not there anymore but absolutely loved the year we spent there.

Ditto all that was said above.

There is a fab little (private) british school off beethovenstraat.
Great area to live if you are on an expat package.

Hi HairyMaclary,

I lived in Amsterdam for just under 3 years doing post-grad studies (pre-children). I had some great times there partying & meeting tons of people from all over the world. It is a very pretty city, especially if you get housing allowance and can live in one of the lovely leafy areas, as slim said around Beethovenstraat or Museumplein, or even on a canal in the Jordaan.

Of course everyone is different so it is very hard to say how you will find it. I can imagine it being a nice place to live with children. But, personally, I didn't like it.

The Netherlands has a reputation for tolerance, which is one of the reasons I wanted to go. But once you are there you learn that this is not exactly true. There may be tolerance in terms of laws on drugs, euthanasia, prostitution, but on a social or individual level there are very rigid ways of doing things and little tolerance of people deviating from the 'norm'. If you come from somewhere like London where there are so many cultures and subcultures, and I mean lifestyle cultures as much as ethnic ones, you may find this oppressive.

The other thing to know before you go is that the Dutch pride themselves on being 'direct'. Direct means saying exactly what you think, honestly. In most cultures this can be seen as rude, ("Is that a new dress? It makes you look fat."), but in The Netherlands it is considered rude to lie in order to be polite ("nice dress") or not to express the opinion (say nothing). From Wikipedia on Dutch customs and etiquette:

"A person who never criticizes others or who's afraid to speak on his own behalf is seen as being simple-minded or failing to tell the truth. Foreigners do not need to worry much about saying something that might in their own culture hurt or be perceived as an insult."

If you think you can handle this you'll do fine - on some levels it is liberating not to have to worry hurting people's feelings. I don't know how it would work with DC's.

Hello HM
I've been in Holland now 5 years and it's really great here. Afraid I'm only just preg with #1 so no idea yet on how schools or your situation would work. Expat work colleagues find it OK, both those that went into local Dutch schools and the international schools route too. There seems to be a lot of choice is my impression- including all the Waldorf, Steiner and others I've never heard of.

Re: Dutch, I did learn a very basic amount to cover minimal social conversation but you really won't need it and don't let that put you off coming.

There are some areas to live that are expensive but I found it a lot cheaper than London (and lots easier to get around- publis transport here is really excellent). Equally if your DH will get some relocation assistance to find a place, you should be OK to find somewhere nice. For professional jobs as well, companies can apply for the Dutch 30% ruling which can be a nice little boost to income.

I'm not in Amsterdam but am near Utrecht. Have been here 2 years and have had 2 children in that time!

I know LOTS about how to move here so let me know if you are coming!

Health care has all been excellent. Basic insurance (covers pretty much what the NHS does but not dentistry) is €90 per adult per month but there are additional packages etc and children are covered for free under their parent's policy. I'm with ONVZ and they have the policy etc in English. The basic package has to cover everything, including pre-existing. I've never had to wait for treatment.

As you can see from my profile, I have managed to hardly speak Dutch but I've picked up enough to get by.

Can also recommend Expatica - also I'm a member of the IWC Utrecht and Amsterdam have a 'chapter'. Have made many many friends and am busier than I have ever been!

Agree that the Dutch can be a bit blunt, but I've personally not been insulted! Actually I've found everyone to be helpful and friendly, but I do live in a farming town and not in the metropolis!

There are several very good international schools in Amsterdam. If you want more detail on any you like the look of I can tap into teachery contacts and see what they think of the schools? I definitely know people at ISA, Amsterdam Community, the British school and the bilingual Lyceum and someone who works in Almere, but I'm not sure which one that is.

Hi Hairy,

we have recently been through what you are going through now, we went from possible offer to actually moving over within about 3 months. My DH works either at home or on site in Amsterdam, Rotterdam & Arnhem. However after chatting to some people we have decided to live in The Hague (Den Haag). We have 2 DC's. Settling in has taken longer than I thought but so far we are quite enjoying it. We have a mix of Dutch friends & expat friends. There is a big expat community here in Den Haag and several international schools including a (very expensive) British school & an American school. We have sent our oldest son (4) to a Dutch school and have found the quality of his education very good and the school community is lovely.

Language wise we are all learning Dutch at home (occasionally) listening to the Pimsleur course but it's not really necessary it's more we feel we should try.

I agree with the bluntness of the Dutch, they are lovely don't get me wrong, but they can say stuff which is quite shocking sometimes. I'm Australian but had lived in the UK for 12 years before this so used to British manners.

However, in general I would say come and give it a go, you could contact the insurance company about your son or you could contact the Dutch childrens service about it (i will check the name for you) as children are monitored by a Govt run organisation.;

Amsterdam is very expensive, if you want a cheaper option you could look at living somewhere else no where is very far from anywhere here, though traffic into Amsterdam can be quite bad. There are some quite nice beach areas and we liked the idea of living near to a beach that was another reason we chose Den Haag but as I said you could literally live anywhere. Utrecht is lovely.

Gosh I've waffled haven't I! I will try to find the name of the childrens health thing.

Thank you all - I left this as I thought the job opportunity had disappeared but it seems not, things are moving forward.

I appreciate you posting AnotherMotherNomad, I have heard through some SN contacts that the 'liberallity' - not sure that that's a word but anyway! - of the Dutch such as the euthanasia laws can mean that the tolerance of the disabled is really lacking. There is the feeling in some hospitals that it is not worth putting too much effort into a disabled child. I am a bit worried about that attitude as DS is normal cognitively. The directness may be an issue too although we have lived in NZ before and they are quite direct!

DH and I have discussed the possibility of me staying here with the children and him working / commuting from there. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

Frakkin - If we get the definite go ahead I would be very interested in the schools but I think it's a bit premature at the moment. Thanks for the offer!

VeggieMummy - I would be interested in the name of the children's health thing. I think it's going to be that side of it that decides things.

The national institute for public health and environment is the national healthcare agency that oversees all healthcare etc, it's acronym in Dutch is RIVM but I don't know what that stands for in Dutch. They have a website which can be viewed in English but I'm not sure if it will have much information that you need. May have some phone numbers though. My boys are under the local healthcare clinics like HVs clinics for there assesment, jabs etc. For under 4's it's the local Jonge Florence and for my eldest who is 4 it's 'de GGD Den Haag'. I don't know what it stands for but it's basically the people who look after school health.

I also have a friend who lives in the UK whose DP commutes regularly to Amsterdam, she is on MN if you would like to ask her about it I could ask her to pop in here. She has one DS.

If the company really wants your DH you could see what they could do for you. My DHs company gave him a moving allowance but gave us no other help for settling in. Some companies like Shell bend over backwards to help including paying for stuff for the family and advisors to help with finding a house, schools, healthcare and ongoing assistance.

This is the rivm link

Thanks Veggie Mummy, will look at that. DH has still got one more interview to go but it's looking good. I just know that if he gets it it'll be chaos trying to sort everything out so I'm trying to do some stuff now without spending too much time on it if it doesn't work out!!

Wow! I'm shocked about the SN information you've received! That goes against everything I've learned in my time here - put it this way - I've been here long enough that my 30% rule expires soon. In fact there has recently been a programme on TV called "Werken met Johnny" or something similar which has followed special needs adults (Downs) throughout their daily and working lives. A fof has adopted a son from China with haemophilia and our local hospital could not do more to help. My manager's daughter was born at 31 weeks less than two months ago and again - not more could be done.

I actually have a lawyer friend who works in the field of euthanasia and he would be horrified by these ridiculous rumours you've heard.

I'm pretty much fluent in Dutch now although rarely NEED to use it.

Our child(ren) will go to local Dutch schools as I can't afford 20k each a year to learn "postman pat" in English.

Hey Ski! We have 'pieter post' on DVD if you want it . Gosh you have been here awhile, that is going to be a big cut in your pay!

It is difficult knowing what to do & what not to do. DHs company were quite crap and actually didn't finalise his contract until a couple of weeks before. They didn't tell him he had the job until late and when they did they insisted they needed him there a month later. However, his company isn't a Dutch company, I may be wrong but I think the Dutch based companies would be much better. Also I can't speak for all employers but there does seem to be a much more family friendly over here. They are very flexible with hours and very encouraging of home working if it's possible. DH is never home later than 6 if he is on site and generally is home much earlier. In his company Monday is called fathers day and they are encouraged to work from home every Monday so meetings are generally never planned on a Monday. As many dads as mums are at the school drop off & pick up which is nice.

Oh if you do end up coming over get your birth ceritificates apostilled. You have to register when you move here and get a BSN (burgerservicenummer). It's kind of like a NI number but covers everything. The process is quite simple but they will only accept apostilled certificates. To get your BCs apostilled you just send then to an adres in Milton Keynes for the Home office. It only take about a week to get back and is much easier than having to send it back.

Veggie hehe - he'll love it! Although my BF is very confused as to why Pat has had to become Piet!

I'm not sure what's going to happen salary-wise at all... I'll need to negotiate something at work I think.

Well, my experiences will be farily atypical, as I went over there as a consultant so many things were taken care of for me.....

But, I would say that the Dutch are incredibly home-focused, and their attitudes may seem strange at first in a few ways.

I didn't find the same as AMN in terms of 'oppressiveness' but....

The Dutch are generally very private people, in my experience - this leads them to focus on their own families, somteimes to the point of not giving much of a damn about how other people live their lives in private. This can be seen as 'permissiveness' and tolerance, but actually it's (IMO) that they are too busy with their own stuff. In my experience, if you ask someone what they think about the (soft)drug culture in Amsterdam, they would say that they don't really like it as it's not very family-friendly, but "What does it have to do with me?"

Getting friendly with the Dutch to the point where you are invited to someone's house is fairly unusual, but it does happen. That might be different as you may be meeting people at school, rather than through work....not sure whether that will make a difference, or even if I've gone off-topic.

B