Streupflicht und Schneeschaufel - Winterliche Unterhaltung im Deutschem Eck

[admylin]

All welcome, Austria & Switzerland & any German-speaking Leute too

Snow and more snow here in Hannover! Lucky for us we have a Hausmeister to do the Schneeschaufeln every morning.

Thanks everyone for the welcome! I've been in Austria for six years now; DH is Austrian but we met in Germany and moved around a bit before eventually settling here. DD1 was born in the USA but DD2 and DS were both born here so "only" have the two citizenships!

I haven't had any contact with DebinAustria - she started the thread I posted on, but the only person I heard back from was someone who had lived in Austria but had moved back to England so I don't know any other MNers here.

Ernest - congratulations on the house; we bought a house here four years ago and it's an exciting but also scary feeling, I know! It was nice to feel settled somewhere and to know we wouldn't have to go through another move in two or three years' time, but also quite strange to know we wouldn't be moving again - for quite a time at least. The Austrians tend to stay put once they've bought a house and you're quite likely to make a loss when you sell - plus moving is an expensive business with all the fees etc.

Schönen guten Tag, Anglo-German expat in London here! I have just come to watch your threat if that's all right! I have been away from Germany for so long that I have forgotten what the educational system is like and no doubt it has changed since my day. But I didn't go through the English system either so some things felt very strange when we were doing secondary entrance here last year. But I am very interested. I do get to Germany quite often, though, on business or to visit my family.

Tschüss!

Welcome aberita - are you enjoying living in Austria?

ernest - well done on the house. Is it an old or new build and when will you be able to move in? I think I wouldn´t tell the school/hort/krippe anything until everything is finalised.

I agree with the others who say I think you should avoid Sonderschule if at all possible. I have a friend here whose dd has ADHD and she was dreading her starting school, but has actually found that the routine and structure have really helped her settle down.
I´m not sure if you will be able to keep the empfehlung a secret. I know that here the kindergarten and school work closely together, so even if you didn´t say anything the kindergarden probably would. There should be someone in the Schulamt who could discuss all the possibilities with you.

canella - if your ds is still enjoying kindergarten and will still have friends there next year I´d definitely let him stay another year. We did this with dd and she wasn´t at all bored. However, a friend with a son in a different Kindergarden said he found it boring because all the older children left to go to school and he was left with only really young children to play with. Having said that she wouldn´t have done things differently because he wouldn´t have coped in school.

It´s snowing again today - I´ve really had enough now. One word of advice, if you live in a hilly area and it snows a lot DON`T buy a car with rear wheel drive. Can you guess I´ve got such a car and I´ve only been able to use it twice in the last 3 weeks. It´s parked at the bottom of a hill that doesn´t get cleared and the wheels just spin if I try to move it.

Hi summersoon, sorry posts crossed. Where are you from originally? Are you settled in London for good or are you planning to come back at some point in the future?
German schooling does come in for a fair bit of criticism here, but I think schooling in London isn´t without it problems either from what I´ve read on mumsnet.

Thanks, hupa - yes, I feel quite settled in Austria now and can't imagine going back to live in the UK (not at the moment, anyway). We definitely have a better standard of living here than we would in Britain - and although I'll always feel British rather than Austrian, Austria feels more and more like home to me now. I do my fair share of moaning to DH about the Austrian way of doing things, but then I go back to visit my parents in the UK and realise that not everything there is perfect either!

I don't have any experience of the German school system, but it took DD1 a while to adjust to school - after three completely unpressured years at Kindergarten of doing very little other than playing, she then suddenly had to sit at a desk and concentrate for the best part of four hours (and concentration isn't one of her strong points...), has had quite a bit of homework every day since her second week at school - and don't get me started on how important grades and the Zeugnis are! (Although that may be to do with her teacher/school/area that we live in...) Having said that, she's quite happy at school - which is the main thing, and definitely seems to be much more settled there in her second year.

Hi Hupa, I am from Wuppertal in North-Rhine Westphalia (still think of Bavaria as abraod sometimes ). I have an English father and have been in the UK for almost 30 years. As my husband is American and our daughter is now happily settled in our first-choice school, I don't see us moving back to Germany, although I work for a German company and come over very regularly.
The educational systems are very different, especially at secondary level and when I told my German colleagues what we were going through to get our DD into a good London indie, they practically didn't believe me! But my husband's American cousins had the same reaction! In fact, I felt that the entrance process is not so dissimilar to the assessment centres we run to recruit graduates!
So I have nothing to add on the subject of German schools (except for my comments for Ernest on the subject of Sonderschulen on another thread - I don't think they have changed much since my day) but I will be interested to read what you and others write on the subject, coming from a Uk background.
On the subject of snow, commiserations: I get the sense that everybody in Germany thinks that the winter has gone on for long enough now!

Hi, thanks for words. I spoke to the Jugendand ElternBeratung blokey who's been helping ds1 coping with his stuff, and he was incredulous. He listened to my description of ds3 (warts and all) and when I told him he could already read and was interested in doing numbers he almost guffawed and asked if the woman who did the empfehlung was very young. He said he doubted the Sonderschule would even consider him and in his opinion was also totally wrong for hi. And he has had a very good day today again at KG. I get the end results from ADHD testing on 5th March, so will see what she recommends, and I'm very hopeful she will also pour scorn on the recommendation, then I'll stick 2 fingers up to them.

Feel a lot more confident that it's a load of shite, but had a shitty few days because of it, I can tell you.

hupa, i agree, this snow hasn't been at all that deep round here, but seems to have been going on literally for months now...

@ Ernest: excellent! That sounds really good!

Ernest - did the kindergarten give you some kind of written Empfehlung or did the woman just give you her opinion? If there's nothing official, I would just register your ds at the school of your choice, see how he does at the Schuluntersuchung and let the school tell you what they think since they're the ones who would be dealing wit him in the long run. Even if he does get diagnosed with ADHD it certainly doesn't mean he needs to go to a Sonderschule. There were several boys in my kids' classes who had behavioural issues and last year one 9 yr old in the little English class I teach at the school told me right out that he had ADHD and was on medication for it. Not really a big deal. Everyone just dealt with it. He was a bit restless but smart as a whip.

The kindergarten teachers here don't really have much in the way of training, or let's say they don't have the same type of training that an elementary school teacher would and I think sometimes they're quick to "diagnose" kids that don't fit into their pre-conceived notions.

so chuffed you got some sense from someone ernest!!

i am beyond fed up with the snow!! they had to send diggers to clear the street the other day - the snow ploughs were only doing the main roads and our street was becoming impassable!! had a few days over the end of last week and the weekend where it didnt snow but it was always below freezing so it never thawed and its snowed again the last 3 days!! its up to my KNEES in the garden!!!!!

keep trying to do fun things with the kids in it otherwise i'm quickly forgetting that snow can be fun - i now think of it in terms of snow shovelling!

Phew, that sounds good Ernest. Go for it and I bet your ds will be so excited and pleased to go to school that he'll settle with no problems.

I had trouble accepting the 'advice' from any of our Kindergarten teachers because they really don't have much training except for singing songs and toilet training. Alot of them leave Hauptschule at 16 and go into the 3 year Ausbildung to be Erzieherin where they learn how to follow routine, discipline, small child care and playing but not alot more.

I'm having real problems with ds at the moment - he has fully and officially entered into puberty. How cute and easy it all was when they were toddlers eh! We have had a mega pubertarian strop every day this week.

Morgen! Haven't been on for ages, somehow RL (including various school issues) seemed to take over and I haven't got round to posting for months now. Still here though, in the south west corner of Deutschland.

I agree with you about the KG teachers, admylin. That was certainly our experience with the first KG ds went to. The second one was a lot better though and the Leiterin there seemed a lot better trained and clued up on child psychology.

I agree with the others, Ernest, about ignoring the advice from the KG. I can totally understand how annoyed you are about it.

Snowing again here this morning. Can't complain too much as we've had a lot less snow than most of the rest of Germany and it also melted inbetween snowfalls. I'll be so relieved though when this winter comes to an end.

Is anyone into Fasching? It's today isn't it? Can you tell, I'm not into it and don't get it at all!

How are things going Taipo - what sort of school issues? I'm going to meet 2 of dd's teachers tomorrow - one is the maths teacher, she got a 4 in maths so we need to sort out some nachhilfe as it obviously isn't working with me helping her. The other is the english teacher, should I speak english with her? It is Gymnasium so I know she should speak fluently. Ds's english teacher was quite pleased when we met as she loves speaking english but she didn't know who I was and introduced herself outside school and I just started talking to her.

Admylin - Fasching is officially on Monday the 15th, Rosenmontag, but I'm sure there are celebrations going on this week too. I'm not into it either. The kids used to dress up at school on Rosenmontag but they don't do that in the higher classes so we're safe this year. :-)

I hope our school doesn't bother , ds has to stay home if they do as he really hates it! He stayed home the last 2 years of Grundschule! Dd loves it but only because she needs an excuse to dress up as a vampire.

I hate Fasching too and will be very relieved when it's all over. I think today is schmutziger Donnerstag, whatever that means. Don't mind it for children obviously(and I will probably get dragged out in the cold next week to watch the Umzug through our town)but it makes me cringe to see otherwise serious adults dressing up as clowns and behaving like children. And don't get me started on the interminable "comedy" shows on TV every night atm. God, I am such a killjoy!

We went to dd's parents' evening last night. We saw 5 of her teachers, most of whom went on about how slow and dreamy dd is. That's nothing new but it does seem quite extreme atm and is probably holding her back. She also seems permanently tired which is quite worrying. She could definitely do with more sleep but I'm wondering whether there could be some underlying health problem. Or perhaps she is just overwhelmed with starting Gymnasium this year. It certainly hasn't been an easy ride so far but most parents I've spoken to say the same thing.

We didn't meet the English teacher last night but I have spoken to her before and she seemed not to want to speak English so we spoke German in the meeting. She is quite young so maybe not very confident about speaking to a native speaker. I guess you should just go with whatever the teacher seems to prefer tomorrow.

Yes, definately the first year at Gymnasium is hard going. For the dc, there is alot more work and information coming at them and the different teachers for each subject to get used to etc.

The thing that can be hard to cope with for a lot of families is that your dc is used to being top of the class at Grundschule, mostly 1s and 2s on the report card etc then in Gymnasium you can be pleased if you manage a 3 in most subjects. It is a shock when you get the first load of grades.

I'm thankful every day that my 2 don't have to spend time learning English. They get so much vocab and it must be an extra strain on the German dc who have to learn the translations and the spellings and the grammar. Ds doesn't have to learn anything at all at the moment for English and dd only has to learn the spellings so they have less work than their classmates.

That's it, the shock from coming from the Grundschule. There are no easy transitions here, starting with the change from KG (where they run around all day) to a very formal style of learning in the 1. Klasse.

Dd's report was also mainly 3s, including for German and maths when she was used to getting 1s and 2s last year. It really knocked the confidence out her, especially after the very first test she did (in Geography) when she got a 4/5

Not having to learn English (apart from spellings) is a big bonus though, especially as they start with 2 foreign languages here.

Has anyone else discovered wasabi flavoured Chio Chips? I'm getting a bit addicted to them Good for clearing the sinuses though.

ds fancied those last time we were in Edeka, have to try them. No idea what that taste is like, although on second thoughts does a stroppy moody life's-not-fair boy deserve them?

I have heard the transition is tough. It will be hard for ds to go from getting 1 or 2 , to getting 3 or 4.

Taipo, yuk to Wasabi. I can't stand the stuff, though dh is a fan, and the wasabi pea things too. Yuk.

Sorry your dd sounds like she's under the weather. Maybe it's the stress and she'll perk up with a bit of tlc & rest? Vitamins? I've heard that the first year Gym is v. tough, so hopefully she'll start to recover as the summer approaches (assuming the winter will at some point end?)

It annoys me when people say how much easy ds has it cos he's mother tongue english so doesn't have to worry about the English. Maybe this is true, but it's ignoring the act that he and his siblings have had to cope with doing everything in a foreign language, not just in 1 subject a couple of times a week, but in all subjects, and judged on the same level as native speakers. Ok, his parents made the choice to live here, well, dh did, but he didn't have a say in it, and it's something he has to deal with (admirably) every day! grrr.

I must say, it's one reason dd is in the krippe, so she can learn the language from scratch, not stay at home with me for her early years only speaking English, then suddenly have to learn a brand new language from scratch, which is why i am praying they let her keep her Krippe platz when we move. What do you reckon her chances are? Only guess work I know. I daren't ask, keep thinking, if I sign her up for next year, and keep quiet as long as possible?

What about in the new village - will you not want to try and get her a platz there anyway? Or is she already over there? Is it hard to get a place?

Taipo the klassenarbeiten are really hard in some subjects and dd panicked in a few of hers and got bad grades too. She got a 5 in science (physics) in the test but as the test only accounts for 30% of the end grade she managed a 2 on her report card due to participation and class work.

When the teacher said she has to join in more he gave her a tip, he said try to join in atleast 3 times in every lesson and make a mark in your homework book to count how many times - also always try to join in when we discuss homework because atleast you are always prepared and have done your homework so it's easier. Sometimes he reads out who has the most points in 'joining in' and she comes right at the top now since she realised how important it is.

Hi everyone, can I say hello.

I've been lurking for a while. I chose this name because we used to live on the street where Marlene Dietrich was born, and our local Kneipe was called Der Blaue Engel.

Our experience of the school system differs a lot from some of you. Firstly we're in Berlin, which has a 6-year Grundschule, thanks goodness, and secondly my dds are at an international school (but a state one which follows the German curriculum), of which there are a number in Berlin. They learned to read and write first in English, German is their 'partner language', and French is the foreign language. Works well.

Ernest, that's a horrible situation to be in, and your ds should no way be in a Sonderschule. A friend of mine in Berlin did get her ds IQ tested for a similar reason - he was acting up in the 3rd grade and she was sure it was boredom. He has an IQ of 130, it seems, so she flashed the piece of paper at the teachers and they let him move ahead at his own pace for some things, which solved the problem. But generally the German school system is incredibly intolerant of anyone who doesn't fit the average. I think the teachers see it as their function to assess the kids and sort them into ability groups rather than actually encourage them or teach them.

Sorry, rant over.

Don't get me started on the sodding snow and effing ice...

That sounds like a good tip, admylin, which could work with dd too. She's not very good at participating in class either, even in English lessons (I think she feels a bit self-conscious).

Thanks, Ernest, I'm hoping things will get better once winter finally ends. Could be worth trying the vitamins.

The wasabi crisps are very green. That still didn't put me off though.

Hope your ds is in a better mood today, admylin. I am really not looking forward to the teenage years. The strops are bad enough now!

Hi and welcome Blauer Engel. Pity you in Berlin with the cold weather. Dh was there last week and he said there were people slipping on the ice everywhere. It's positively balmy here in comparison and it's still bloody freezing.

How do you like Berlin otherwise?

Rant away, we're all used to school-related rants on this thread