Out of interest - which scenario is better?

[Ozziegirly]

1. Living about as far away from your family as is possible to be. You have no family here, and although you have made acqaintences, no real proper close friends (although this may come in time I suppose).

But you are living in a place where your children will have a bigger house, their Dad home from work earlier in the evening, lots of free, outdoor activities, the ability to go to a very good private school.

But have a very limited link with grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles, less culture, less ability to visit different countries growing up etc.

or

1. Living closer to your family, but in a smaller house. Both parents with a longer commute. Less free money.

Probably not private school, worse weather, more expensive so less money to go round.

But closer to exciting cities, interesting culture, history, better job opportunities and universities for the future.

Basically, help us decide between bringing up our child in Australia, where we are living now, or back in the UK!

We are in Aus for at least another 3 years (which is fine) but it's after that. And we are going round and round in circles talking about it.

I guess it boils down to "family over higher standard of living"?

Anyone have any thoughts?

I live in UK and would give my eye teeth to be bringing dd up in Australia or New Zealand. IMO there is nothing to beat the way of life. It's all very well living over here close to family etc but your disposable income drop will make life much harder and more stressful anyway, a smaller house, less room to move around (indoors and outside), more culture but less money to access it with. Rain. Rain again. More rain.

Strangely, I'm finding being here has given me more, and much more intense, interactions with our families. We've only been here 18 months but last summer (when I was quite pregnant, working from home and had bad SPD) we had three solid months of guests. My parents came (and stayed 4 times over 6 weeks), BIL came (three times), friends came and IL's came. Most if them were very high maintenance (had me doing washing, booking hotels, calling me after midnight to do chores for them). We've also been back to show them DD. We haven't had a holiday without our families since we left and I am really fed up.

This year I am going to manage the guests better - partly as our landlords just gave us notice and we don't have anywhere to live ourselves. And there will be ground rules....

Anyone else have this kind of problem? Any hints on management?

YES - I had the same. Both sets of parents arrived with an overlap of a week and basically hadn't done any reading to let us know the kind of things they would like to do, it was pretty exhausting, especially as we both work full time.

What did work with my parents though is that we all (me and DH and mum and dad) went away together on holiday which meant we were all relaxing instead of us being busy with normal life as well as being tour guide.I can highly recommend this.

We haven't had a proper holiday since we have lived here (2 years) as we have had to go back to the UK twice and both sets of parents have come twice so all our holiday is being used on other people.

Now I am pregnant so am saving all my holiday for maternity leave.

When my parents came to visit they took us on holiday! It was fantastic, and then we showed them some of our favourite places locally. One thing that worked really well is that we had a small break between the holiday and their visit, as they took us up the BC coast, and whilst they flew, we drove (14 hour drive, so not good for them), and so we each had some down time. I'm not sure I could keep up with my parents for very long - we were worn out after a fortnight. They also offered to stay in a hotel when they were in our town, but then my sister has had her Australian ILs visiting for the last 10 years (obviously not continuously) and my mother has watched and learned... I only get four weeks a year, so no possibility of visiting the UK for more than a week or two.

Living in UK means "closer to exciting cities, interesting culture, history, better job opportunities and universities for the future".

and

"By better job opportunities I mean for our children really (DH and I can do similar jobs wherever we are) as Australia is such a small job market in global terms"

Australia has a smaller market because they have less people to support. And aren't they the only ones to have growth in the financial crisis or some such? I always thought the unis were up there too?

It's a personal choice and I am not suggesting that you should not be home sick but just a thought that some may find that offensive especially when you consider the other positive lifestyle things that are offered in oz.

I'm certainly not denying the amazing lifestyle things in Oz - I really like living here!

But on a world stage? Australia is great and has loads of strengths, but it isn't a leading financial or legal centre (and I only mention those as those are the industries DH and I work in) and although its universities are great, it's probably only the top 1 or maybe 2 that would compete on a world stage.

There's nothing wrong with this - and indeed our child may love to work in an area that Australia does specialise in, but you can't say Australia is the best at everything, as it simply isn't.

And it's simple fact that we are a long way from other cultures living here (especially tucked away down in Adelaide) It's 2 hours to Sydney, nearly 7 to the nearest non "western" country, 14 hours to the US, over 20 hours to Europe.

i'm not running it down, I do like it here, and really like living here, but this thread is just talking about the possible downsides of growing up here.

If you are definitely there for the next 3 years, put off your decision until then. A lot can change in that time.

The other thing that I would recommend is to live your life as if you are there for good. If you see your stay as temporary, it will hold you back on living a full life there.

It can easily take two years to feel at home in a new place.

Yes, you're right mvem - that's partly behind our decision to buy somewhere instead of renting. We've moved around a lot over the past few years and I sometimes think of itchy feet lifestyle is self fulfilling as we never allow ourselves to get attached to one place as we know we might move on.

It's been really helpful hearing other people's POV on this.

In the end we chose option 2, we had lived in NZ for 4 years, bought a house, 2 actually, had good friends and loved the lifestyle. However DS was born and then unexpectedly DH was offered a transfer back. We had to make a decision within a month so was pretty fraught. However for all the reasons you mention we decided to come home. It turns out that due to DS's very prem birth (at 29 weeks) he has SN and the fact that the UK is a wealthier country has meant that he has had very good care here and we have accessed private therapies that are simply not available in NZ or Australia - we've looked thoroughly!

WE are happy with our decision but the first year - 18 months were very tough, a much smaller house and all our big N furniture makes it seem smaller, grey days, long distances from friends all made it hard. I cried when we landed at Heathrow! However 3 years on it was the right choice, both sets of grandparents are very involved, cities are much better with fab culture that our boys aged 2 and 4 are accessing and even tough DH is with the same company the job opportunities are much better here.

That's what we chose, I guess it depends what is good for you. I still miss NZ and the lifestyle and would love to go back and visit for a long length of time but I'm not sure I could live there again.

ozzygirlie, this is exactly the dilema I have right now. I'm due to be leaving to go to the airport in around 3 hours and am really having second thoughts, in fact I haven't even finished packing.

Been in the Middle East 4 years and found it really hard at first but after a few years started to find my feet. Really missed my family and friends though. Had thought of returning to the UK this summer as DC1 was returning for A levels and DC2 already back in the UK for 1 year as not settled. Really missed mum and wanted to spend more time with her and wanted DC3 and 4 to know her.
Sadly mum died just before we returned in the summer and now I'm wondering what I have to return to. I gave up everything when I moved away, my friends, career etc and it would be repossible to get my career back on track now (also have two little ones as well which doesn't help)

In the Middle East, DH back from work earlier (around 4pmish) whereas if he was in the UK he'd be back around 7pm and would have around a 12 hour day with all the commuting. Salary would be half too so obviously a lower standard of living. Abroad we have a rent free house, a houseboy (a man who comes in to do the washing, ironing, cleaning etc) so more quality time spent with the kids.

Miss the real world though. Also feel torn as DC1 and 2 in the UK and really miss them and the involvement in their schools that I would normally have. So difficult a decision. Think I'll give myself 3 months then make the final decision.
Good luck to anyone else in the same boat