Being foreign - Pay your taxes, speak some English and be nice about the country where you live

[MmeLindt]

Article in The Economist

Interesting article, made a lot of sense to me.

This is something that has worried me for a while:

The funny thing is, with the passage of time, something does happen to long-term foreigners which makes them more like real exiles, and they do not like it at all. The homeland which they left behind changes. The culture, the politics and their old friends all change, die, forget them. They come to feel that they are foreigners even when visiting ?home?.

Beware, then: however well you carry it off, however much you enjoy it, there is a dangerous undertow to being a foreigner, even a genteel foreigner. Somewhere at the back of it all lurks homesickness, which metastasises over time into its incurable variant, nostalgia.

Anyone else feel like this?

very interesting article.

I am like jessia, I felt increasingly "foreign" in Britain, which was the impetus for leaving in the first place. Life in Britain seems terribly artificial to me, and I dont understand why more people cant see this.
In many ways, I feel more at home in Germany - maybe if I had stayed in NRW I would be completely assimilated now. Of course, there is no chance of that in Bayern, even north Germans are foreigners here!

I do long to go home - but right now, there is no home to go to. I dont think I will ever hang this longing on an idea of Britain, though.

This sort of article stirs up feeling that I didn't have before, or maybe latent feelings I didn't realise I had. I am currently, not missing Uk exactly, but want to return for a visit.

Did anyone see the 3 part programmes, history of the noughties (can't remember title) last week, was a modern history view of how Britain changed during the noughties. Dh found it interesting, I found it depressing and was a main reason why I've left and stayed away from UK since 2000.

Haven't got anywhere to call, or feel at home though.

How your dc getting on nn?

hi ernest - a bit rocky with the Noten and motivation here.
There is an up and coming alternative school fairly near us, and dd1 now wants to try this, and she says she is fed up of tests and marks. She really seemed to be getting on well with the system last year, but hasnt managed to settle into the new school since September. The change of school seems to have put her back 2 years.

I am still waiting for ds1 to wake up and start getting the good marks he is capable of. He is depressed about the whole thing and is refusing all clubs or sport, but also not organised about his school work, and convinced that he cant do anything. It is very hard trying to keep people's spirits up the whole time!

How are yours?

We didn't see the program - was it on the BBC?
I recently bought an internet radio, and want to set it up to get Radio 4. This is a major difference, because I have always resisted creating a little England before.
What did they identify as the main way Britain changed in the noughties?
I wasn't aware of it changing in front of my eyes in teh same way as I was in the 80s (but I did leave in 2004). The Iraq war was a big turning point, I think.

I think, living outside one's home country, that one goes through phases of integration and then a sort of pulling back and refinding of ones roots.

I truly feel at home in Paris. However, I have been here for 18 years, with only three years "out", I already spoke the language fluently when I arrived (and knew the city well already and had friends and family here), I have a Parisian partner and family and my only sister also has a Parisian DH (though lives in another country). So there is a certain sort of similarity and continuity of experience going on from generation to generation. This is "us", this is what our family is like.

When I go back to England it is as if I have never been away - it is all completely familiar. But I read the English newspapers (they arrive on my doorstep) and listen to Radio 4 every day, my DD has one French and one English teacher at school. I think we are pretty bicultural.

Bonsoir, as an insider, what do you think about the famous Parisian rudeness?
It really pisses me off every time I go there. I mean, would it really kill them to smile, or even help someone - especially if their job is customer service!
The only time Parisians ever smile in my experience is when they are mocking my (competent) French!

I think a lot of Parisians are indescribably rude, especially in shops, and that you have to harden yourself to it to survive. But when you live here for any length of time, you do, through trial and error, learn to avoid the rudest shops and services and to build relationships with (much) more pleasant people, and so they no longe seem so rude!

It's very tough when you have recently arrived.

I was somewhat reassured by an anecdote in one of the In the Merde books, when the author witnessed a French person forgetting to say good morning in a shop, and the shop owner getting shirty and treating them rudely (not just reserved for foreigners, then).
I will try to follow your advice next time we are in Paris!

Paris is one of the cities where I still feel "at home" although I left over 10 years ago.
Oddly, the "rudeness" is one of the first things that immediately makes it familiar. I just switch in Paris mode: I find that walking into any place with a sense of entitlement makes people respect you and provide VIP service.

Most of the people I encounter in my daily life are absolutely charming, though. Once Parisians recognise and trust you, and, importantly, know that you will be nice to them, they warm up no end.

I just love it that you can place orders in shops here and not have to pay a deposit when they know and trust you.

I know my MIL feels like this. She moved over here in the 50's from Cyprus (which at the time was under British rule) She'd always planned on going home at some stage, but since then they've become Independent, then were (half)occupied by Turkish forces. Her village is in the occupied north, until recently she couldn't go home. It's not the same country she left, and although she's happy here to a certain extent (she works, has no real problems communicating) it still isn't what she had in mind all those years ago. I'm fairly convinced that most of her issues (she can be quite difficult) are due to this rootlessness.

We had an unexpected visitor this weekend, my cousin and his family were stranded at Geneva airport when their flight was cancelled. They came to stay overnight and we were chatting about the DCs. DH asked them if they thought that the DC have English accents as we have noticed that they are picking up a different accent in school, from their English friends.

My cousin said that they sound like 'Elite Expat Europeans'. No distinct accent, but recognisable because of this. I made me stop and think.

Thats interesting, the Elite immigrant Expat English accent.
I think there is some truth in this, it is hard to keep pure BBC when you dont have the bossy voice of Radio 4 keeping you in line every day.

Popular culture is a tough one, particularly in the UK when people start these conversations about children's TV shows and I just sit there completely clueless. I have some idea (thanks the Channel 4 having millions of those "Top 100" shows), but there were times when it seriously felt like I was born the year I arrived in the UK (if that makes sense - like the years before I lived here was a dream). Very odd feeling. Now going back to SA I feel the years that I've missed; there's all this popular culture that I have no clue about. And now, with French DP, I'm learning all about French popular culture as well (as there's so much I don't know about, and popular culture is an easy conversation point).

My DNiece and DNephew have two accents (despite never setting foot in SA, let alone the African continent) - a vaguely SAn one, like the rest of the family has, and then a regional one. It's very odd seeing them switch when talking to friends