Moving to SA - lots of questions

[ExpatAgain]

Hi - can anyone give some advice to me please? We're a British family with 2 young children, thinking of relocating for a couple of years to Cape Town. I'd therefore appreciate any advice from South African/expat families in SA. My husband would be posted out there by his company and we'd rent so no issues there.

I have read through loads of threads on various sites but still got a few more questions, if you could help me!

1. I know it's always asked, but how safe do you feel day to day as a family in a 'good' area of CT such as Hout Bay or Constantia? Is it like living in Fort Knox?! Are security measures such as armed response/dog etc essential?

2. how much do kids get affected by this - is it ok for them to walk to school if nearby, walk & play in the street etc?

3. I'd be going on a spousal visa so wouldnt' have the right to work and husband would be away most weeks for half the week in Jo'berg- I'm therefore worried about being able to build my own life and fear being rather isolated compared to my life in the UK.

Would I have the freedom to be able to go out for a walk/coffee by myself or is this a no-no? Ditto, I love running and generally do this alone in the UK, is that even possible in SA?

How about driving - would I/the kids be stuck at home after dark or is it ok to drive out?

4. How about having help in the house/childcare, is this generally someone who lives in (how does this work?) or on a daily basis? What are the costs involved?

5. How easy is it to get work as a white non-South African? I have a degree and yrs of experience in adult education and then health management but no exceptional skills such as nursing, IT. Would I stand any chance or should I assume that I wouldn't be able to work for the duration of our stay? In that case, is it easy to get worthwhile voluntary work?

Thanks for your help!

I have family in Hout Bay and used to live round the corner from Constantia

1. I don't know how to explain really...the security is so different to the UK. I think Constantia is a bit more like Fort Knox than Hout Bay but both areas will have bars on windows and proper security wherever you stay. Armed response is a taken in SA. Having said that, I lived in Newlands for years and didn't have it (armed response) but I think you probably would if you lived in Constantia (most large houses have alarms).

1. No, no playing in the street or walking to school. You drive everywhere in Cape Town. Cape Town far better than Joburg for walking around in general though. Lots more feeling of freedom due to walking on beaches, shops etc.

1. Yes, you can go for coffee on your own. I used to run on my own in Cape Town but I certainly wouldn't do it at night and wouldn't do it in unpopulated areas. In fact, if you don't know the area, I would wait till you feel comfortable doing it - I used to cycle a lot too. You'll find lots of people join gyms to do exercise there. And the gyms are big and really well equipped. Might be a good idea to join a running club maybe? They will probably do group runs and you can meet people that way? Sport very popular over there!

1. You'll most likely have a maid attached to the house (if it's a large house) who'll have maid quarters and live in.

1. I don't know. I worked there but not in your area so I really don't know.

thinking about it, probably some local kids walked to school every now and then but largely dropped off by parents

You can drive at night in Cape Town. Just be security aware.

ooh, got excited then, hoped someone else was coming out to Saudi Arabia!
No knowledge of South Africa but hope it all goes well for you

We are not in SA but another part of Africa where we have armed response, guards and bars on the window. To be honest I hardly notice any of it now, it's just the way we live. Dh travels a lot and it reassures me there is back up when he is away.

We are very 'security aware', drive with windows up, mostly. Aware of cars tailgating, acting oddly etc. Again it is a bit intimidating at first but it soon becomes second nature.

Our life moving around is spent mainly in the car, however I sometimes do walk the dc to school and nothing has ever happened. I also run regularly. I take off any valuables but run with ipod. I inform my guard as to my route and I stay on well populated streets and vary my routes/times/days.

We also have staff who live in special quarters attached to the house, they work on a daily basis.

Are you children school age? Because if so, sometimes the best information you can get will be from other mums at their school/pre school. You will most likely find some help this way and be advised what to pay them.

Is you dh with an international company? Could one of his colleague's wives help out at the beginning and introduce you to people/places? It is tough making friends for the first 6 months or so, but you honestly have to just get stuck in via school/gym/pilates.

Sorry it's not CT specific but I hope it helps you get a feel for what it is like to live in this way!

Thanks, all, v helpful shall try to digest it all and come back with more questions, if you don't mind. Which country are you in , themaster?

I'm in Kenya. Not quite SA but not so far off.

oh, I really love Kenya - can see the need for all the security though.
I know it's a difficult question, but does it always seem worth it living with such high security? Guess, it's personal. It's the main stumbling block for me - I'd do it w/o kids but taking them along too makes me more considered ifykwim. Think it probably is worth it though, only get one life and all that and what to live it fully.

Hi there, I might be able to help with some of the questions. I'm living in Joburg - we moved here earlier this year - so I'm still learning about life in SA.

1. I am not so familiar with life in Cape Town but I would suspect that you will still want to have good security in place. When we moved here I walked up and down my street looking at the houses and tried to work out what was weak with our security and to make sure that our house is not the one that will get hit (should there be crime at all in the street).

2. The chances are you will hunt around for a school you like and will find it is not within walking distance anyway. But, to answer the question, I am pretty certain that in Cape Town the people in walking distance to the schools will walk. I see it here in Joburg so have no reason to assume it would be different in CT. Playing in the street is hit and miss much like in the UK. Some streets I've seen kids kicking a ball about but most streets are pretty quiet.

3. I'm here on a spousal visa too and getting pretty bored at times. If you CAT me I could give you some details that might help.

Its hard to say if you would be able to walk by yourself. I suspect if you are right by some shops or the beach it will be fine. There are jogging/walking clubs. There's a fitness group called 'walk for life' in most areas where people walk in a group. I'm sure they have a website. If you find a friend you could walk / run together - I see lots of people jogging in twos or threes.

I haven't found much to do with the kids once its dark so haven't made an effort to avoid driving in the dark, its just happened that way.

4. I have a domestic worker, she is not live in and works 3 days a week. If your property has domestic quarters I am not sure if you are expected to offer the accommodation or not.

5. I think with qualifications, experience and perseverance you'll get a job. But I'm not speaking from experience. I'm sure that your skills could also be used for voluntary work - I think the charities would snap you up.

I hope this helps.

meid

It seems like high security when you first arrive and then after a while it just becomes the norm. In fact the dc are quite amazed when they see gardens and houses in the UK with no fences and walls around.

It's the price we pay for living in countries where the discrepancy between the haves and the haves not is so vast. We are incredibly privileged and often that is what I find difficult to deal with.

For us, the experience of living in this culture and this beautiful country is worth the risks involved. It makes for an interesting life that's for sure.

i ahve freinds who have just relocated back to cape town. they are south african but have been living overseas of a while.

they have found it hard to adjust back to being so security conscious, and in fact, tell me that they feel much more vulnerable now than they did before they left.

violent crime in south africa is really bad. there is no getting away from that fact. and in a country where 1 in 3 men admit to having raped a woman (yep. just google south african rape statistics if you dont believe me) you absolutely cant take your personal safety for granted.

but having said all that, if you are not there long term it is a pretty awesome place to experience. as long as you are careful and dont take chances (like going running on your own) you should have a good time.

disclaimer writer takes no responsibility for any upset or trauma casued by actually looking up rape statistic information on south africa. dont read if you arent of iron strong constitution.

vulpes, how long did you live in SA for?

i was born there and my folks live there (although i dont anymore).

i am alsways telling DH i wouldnt mind going bacl to live for a couple of years. but not long term.

apologies. can spell, promise.

just cant type

thanks, all. You've been so kind and helpful, meant a lot as all the research in the world is not as valuable as 1st-hand opinions of living over there.

Can't quite bring myself to google the rape stats, though, must admit...have looked at overall stats from police though. I think as long as it stacks up as being safe enough in the short-term, likely to be no more that 2 yrs and would not sell up in the UK.

We used to live in Cape Town and still have friends and family there.

Don't want to enter into a debate about violent crime (even one such incident is one too many) but just to keep some perspective, remember that the vast majority of these crimes occur far away from the leafy suburbs of Constantia and the like. That's not to say that there's no violent crime in those areas (it does happen and when it does it is often horrendous) but statistically speaking, you are much more likely to be a victim if you live on the Cape Flats than in the Southern Suburbs.

1. The security measures in Cape Town are more than you'd have in England but (on average and IMHO) less than eg Nairobi and Jo'burg. Spiked walls, security bars and armed response will be pretty standard in the areas you mention. We notice them when we go back but but after a few days we get used to them and they fade into the background. Armed guards are less common, only for the very wealthy. Most dogs you see are probably family pets first and play a security role second.

None of these measures can be completely effective all of the time but they can act as a deterrent and help to give you peace of mind. I take the view that, as long as you are reasonably sensible about ensuring your safety, you will be very unlucky to become the victim of a violent crime so go with as many as measures you need to make you feel comfortable and the rest is up to fate (that's IMHO though! others may disagree).

1. Most (practically all) people drive everywhere - not necessarily only because of concerns about safety but also laziness, habit, greater distances, parking availability etc. Walking to school should be fine but obviously depends on the area (even within Constantia or Hout Bay). I'd walk with the dcs (or have their nanny accompany them) if they are still in primary school. Ask around or look to see what the other parents do. Playing in the streets is rare - visits to each other's houses are the norm.

1. Walking after dark (especially alone) is the big no-no. It's fine to go out if you're driving, just be aware of your surroundings. There are fewer car jackings in Cape Town than Jo'burg but they do still happen. As for walking/running alone, first make sure that you are comfortable with the safety of the route you are taking. For example, I'd go walking in Kirstenbosch if I'm on my own. Get a dog to go running with you or a friend or join a walking/running group or the gym.

1. Depends what you feel you need - it'll be easy enough to get someone, whether live-in or live-out, full time or part time. I think it is round R2,500 per month (though you'd obviously need to double check this when you get there and the cost might differ depending on the person and where you are living) for a live-out daily domestic who will clean the house and look after your kids for you but she probably won't have any training and certifications eg first aid etc, just previous experience. If that's important to you, you may need to pay more for someone else or pay for her to do some courses. Word of mouth is the best way to find someone but if you go the advertisement route then make sure you check out all her references.

Word of warning - Capetonians (the grown-ups) can sometimes be a bit cliquey so don't worry if no-one is falling over themselves to be best friends with you on day one, it's nothing personal. You might have to be quite pro-active about acquiring friends. Guess this is true of moving to any new place, though.

1. With such high unemployment among citizens, it can be difficult for non-citizens to get work permits so you might find it easier to get voluntary work but I don't have any experience of your field. Perhaps assume you won't get anything and then look around once you are there? Use any contacts you have, no matter how tenuous - it's a small world, Cape Town.

Hope that helps. Any more questions?

I think it's a great opportunity and I hope you have a fantastic time!

Thanks, lukeluke,fantastic. May have more questions if I think about it!

I'm South African living in the UK, having recently gone back to see family.

Generally speaking, CT is not as bad as Jo'burg on the crime front; it's a different type of crime. A lot of it is gang related and targeted, whereas Jo'burg tends to be more random and there are lots of armed house burglaries.

People will look at you like you're a lunatic if you walk around, particularly at night - it's just not really done in SA because of the safety issue. Also, distances are much longer than in the UK. That may sound odd, but it is easy to forget. Driving from CT to Durban, for example, can take up to three days.

For annual leave (if you're working) the average is around 25 days leave a year, and there are more public holidays than in the UK (and they're nicely spaced out throughout the year).

I don't know where you're living in the UK, but generally the standard of living in SA is higher/better or just different. It tends to be more outdoorsy (lots of swimming, going for walks, playing sports outside) simply because the weather is better. The schools are generally very good (there's an article in the Times today about how much better the SA education system is than the UK) and the food is relatively cheap and good quality (SA produces most of its own food. Fruit and vegetables are VERY cheap). Things you do need to bear in mind are that:

• There isn't really a national healthcare system in place. There is for some poor in urban areas, but most people have to pay for their own private health insurance (a lot of the time this comes from your employer, and can cover family members), but the quality of care is amazing.
• If you're planning on staying for a long time, you also have to pay for your own pension as, again, there is not really any national pension scheme, and the amount that you would get out of it is miniscule (around R1,000 a month, if that).
• There is a lot of poverty, which I found quite shocking and hard to deal with having gotten used to the UK (the gap between rich and poor is really wide). There are tons of beggars in CT and around the city there are shanty towns.

But, I am very jealous; CT is an AWESOME city. It has such a great buzz, beautiful beaches and scenery, very multi-cultural and is just a great city. The only downside is that the sea is so freaking cold.

thanks, more food for thought...