Giving birth in NL, getting British citizenship

[skihorse]

I'm due July 2010, my partner and I are both British citizens but are living here in NL and the baby will be born here.

How will the registration of the birth go? Presumably being registered at the local gemeente is a given - but how do I notify the UK authorities? Do I have to go up to The Hague? Has anyone been through this before?

Will the baby have dual citizenship?

Skihorse
(haven't read the other replies, so this has probably already been said)

Your baby will be a British citizen by descent. This means that he/she can have a British passport and settle in the UK. The complication of this type of citizenship is that it can't (easily) be passed on to their own foreign-born child. They basically have to have strong ties (ie residence) with the UK.

You apply for the passport at the British Consulate. You will need the baby's foreign birth certificate and your own birth certificate. You don't need to register the birth with the consulate as British citizenship is determined by the parents' status and not the child's.

Check out your consulate website for their passport procedures.

Whether the baby has Dutch citizenship will depend on whether they grant it based soil or blood.

Frakkin- lol- reminds me of going to the town hall here in Italy with my British passport for some mad bureaucratic thing and they kept saying to me "Czech Republic!" in a loud, exclamatory voice...."y-e-e-e-s?" say I, thinking this is some bonkers Italian secret code or other. They then explained (loudly, obviously) that the Czech Republic wasn't in the EU and therefore I (with my UK passport) needed a different queue. WTF?

Whoever mentioned earlier about UK citizenship being passed just down the mothers side, my last employers twins have US/UK citizenship and the father is British and the Mother American. The twins were born in the US and have both UK and US passports (the lucky buggers LOL)...

Yes...newbornnanny...I am American, my husband is British, and our children are dual citizens...(and have two passports each). The father thing isn't an issue any more; I think it's only an issue if the parents aren't married.

We did get DS a British birth certificate (he was born in China)...we thought it would be a little bit more universally recognised, esp. because his original cert was all in Chinese. It was cheaper to get his British birth cert and his passport than it was on the US side, I do remember that!

According to wikipedia a child bon in the NL to non Dutch parents is not a Dutch national (pretty common nowadays in most countries) so you will need to get the baby a British passport asap if you want to travel with him/her.

Yes, there aren't many countries where you get birthright just for being born there. China and the US are the only two that I know that are still like that; I'm not entirely sure that the UK even is (you actually have to register a birth in the UK, and get their birth cert that way...not so in China or America). So, most likely, your child won't have claim to Dutch citizenship if neither parent is Dutch.

I have had a child in the Netherlands - last year! 2 British parents so can speak from a position of authority :-)

DS1 is a British Citizen. He has a local birth certificate (get an 'international' one at the stadhuis when you register the birth). We got him a British birth certificate (at a cost of over ?200) but that's not necessary. He has a British passport. He cannot have a Dutch one as we're not Dutch!

Passports are now processed in Paris, which is a bit of an arse. You can get the birth certificate done at the same time but it's not compulsory and he'll be a British citizen without it. When we did DS1's (last year) we had lovely dealings with the Embassy in Amsterdam.

DS2 was unexpectedly born in the UK. It was rather more challenging getting his passport so we could go home to NL...

DON'T FORGET - you need to register the birth within 72 hours (not including the weekend). Let me know if you need advice on this! I'm a pro at all this now...

(Oh and congrats by the way).

Thank you so much catherrs!

Silly question maybe, but if the birth has to be registered within 72 hours, can my bf stroll down to the gemeentehuis or am I expected to roll up too in a dressing gown and lank locks?

I haven't read all of this, but do register the birth at the consulate nearest to you, as if you don't and you don't get round to it before your children reach adulthood you may find it more complicated.

Also, remember that if you are British by descent but were born outside the UK, then you do not have the right to pass on your British nationality to your children unless they are born in the UK. I think you can get around this by jumping through some legal loops, but even if it does not apply to you now, make sure your children know about it for their future plans.

You would need evidence of strong ties to the UK to pass on British citizenship by descent. A friend of mine has just successfully managed it (mother was British, he is by descent, has just had a little girl) because he did his degree in the UK and was therefore resident there for 3 years which counted as a tie - so something to consider when choosing education! I think it can also be passed on if British citizenship is the only citizenship they have, or when a grandparent is a British citizen other than by descent.

It's also possible if you are British by descent to bring your child to Britain on a seettlement visa to register them as a British citizen a couple of years later but that needs to be done before they're about 15 or it becomes difficult.

Basically if you want to keep British citizenship in your family it's advisable to live in Britain as an adult for 3 years (and university counts) in order to pass it onto your children!

Hi Skihorse

That's a lovely vision! You should definitely ensure you are freshly coiffured and wearing only your best negligee and kitten-heeled fluffy mules.

Yes BF can register birth, but as you are not married I would say that there may be a form for you to sign? (not sure, as I'm married). So make sure he goes perhaps on day 1 or 2 just so you have a bit of extra time. I think DH just took our BSNs and our passports. I shall ask him tomorrow...

When registered, they give you the stuff for the heelprick test, to give to the midwife. It's all VERY organised.

Once you have the baby's BSN you call your insurance company and they add the baby to your policy.

I think that's all...

Congratulations.
See here.

It's true that you don't NEED to register the birth in order to get a UK passport and it will cost more to do both (money goes to Foreign Office not Home Office, by the way, to help them cover costs of all the emergency assistance they provide for free to Brits overseas, as well as covering costs). If you do register, it means you can then get copies of the UK-style birth certificate from the General Registry Office in the UK for any future purposes.

And British nationality is more complicated than simply inheriting it from parents with British citizenship: it all depends how those parents got their citizenship. And do be aware that, if neither parent was born in the UK, your foreign-born child could lose his/her right to transfer British citizenship to his/her future children if they are born overseas.

Hey Ski congrats, brilliant news. No advice we had all this to sort our in the UK, still haven't got DS2 an Australian passport. So I guess you haven't been to De Uithof for a bit.

Nationality by descent complex - also depends on the reason that the original British (citizen) parent was abroad at the time of the birth. If you are a diplomat or working for an organisation such as the EU your child is entitled to full British citizenship/passport as if born in the UK, and their children will be entitled to residency even if born abroad. Thus both my DCs have exactly the same level citizenship even though one born in London and one in Brussels.

Oh god, I could cry.

OK, so going on all the great advice I got here - and some from colleagues, we rolled up to the gemeentehuis on Thursday to get "ongeboren kind erkennen" - which means, we wanted to formally recognise my boyfriend as the father of the child should the worst happen - i.e., I die during childbirth.

First problem was that we were asked to prove that we'd never been married before - to each other - or in fact anyone else. Can't see what this has to do with the parentage tbh... the baby is coming - whether I've an ex-husband or not! n.b., neither of us have been married. Anyway, she took photocopies of our passports.

I rang the UK consulate (in Amsterdam) on Friday and she said we'd have to travel up to Amsterdam (bear in mind I live in South Limburg so it's 3 hrs each way on the train...) - then it's 66 euros for a sworn affidavit to say we've never been married. I said to the woman on the phone "this is rubbish, I've been out of the UK for over a decade - you have no idea what I was doing in Vegas in 1997 for example". She concurred... but apparently the Dutch think we're less likely to lie to the Brit consulate than to them.

Then... this morning I got a phonecall from the gemeentehuis from the woman I spoke to on Thursday asking which nationality we wanted the baby to have? I said "British, he's entitled to British". She says she doesn't know that as she has no proof we were born in the UK and ergo are entitled to British citizenship ourselves. I told her that the passports she photocopied on Thursday quite clearly show "Place of birth" as being UK for the both of us. I suggested that I give her a weblink to something on the British Consulate website attesting to the fact that the baby will be entitled to British citizenship and we've no interest in Dutch citizenship. Again, she's told us we need to go to Amsterdam and get another affidavit!

Does anyone have any advice on how we might handle this? It's proving such an effing pita I'm wondering whether I ought to just drive to blinkin' Calais when I go in to labour.

PS I'm not on an enormous expat salary so when we start talking 350 euros for a day trip to Amsterdam to prove I'm British it's just not funny.

Okay. Calm.

Why do the Dutch care about your British citizenship? You have a British passport, it's fine. Being born in the UK, incidentally, doesn't automatically mean you're entitled to British citizenship... But in any case from their POV baby isn't entitled to Dutch nationality so why is it an issue?

You can get a form which proves you've never been married in Britain form the General Registry Office but it's expensive. OTOH it doesn't require a trip to Amsterdam! But it does take a while to process...

Sounds like your local gemeentehuis doesn't really know what they're doing. Can you call up the consulate again and get them to talk you through it without you having to do an affidavit and suchlike?

The affidavit is 66 euros per pop each - so it's not as bad as it could be which is something I suppose and perhaps actually cheaper than the GRO. (?)

I don't understand why there's the worries about our citizenship - although she claims it's because UK law doesn't entitle the baby to British citizenship unless we were both born there - I think previous posters on this thread mentioned the very same thing (citizenship by descent).

I am beginning to wonder whether we just got unlucky at the gemeentehuis and got the "wrong" person. My manager (Dutch) just told me he's had to jump through similar hoops for one of his daughters - but he suggested we nip down to the gemeentehuis with our birth certificates which I'd completely forgotten about - because those will TOO state where we were born.

Hi there. Not directly related to this but I had a similar paperwork game last year before I got married to Austrian bf. One part of it was the "never married" tedious paperwork.

I would guess you probably can't use birth certs unless they have been issued in the last 6 months and have the apostile stamp-of-pointless-expense on them too (I think another 10 quids plus delay of posting it to and fro).

Please update on what you find out though (if you can get that proof of citizenship from the embassy too). I've got to run the same gauntlet about a week after you I think as my brother gets married in Dundee and I'll need a passport for the baby inside 8 weeks (wonders if EU beaurocrats can move that fast...)

I don't remember what the cost of getting my form was - sorry

You don't have to both be born in Britain. Only one of you needs to have been. That way the child is automatically entitled to British citizenship by descent. End of.

Even if both of you were born outside the UK your child would likely be entitled to British citizenship as it (he? she?) isn't entitled to any other nationality (assuming both of you hold only British citizenship). Then there aer the complicating factors that you could have naturalised having been born abroad to a different citizenship which you relinquished and children of naturalised citizens can have it by desent OR you could have been born in the UK to foreign parents which wouldn't entitle you to citizenship at all... ad nauseam.

British citizenship only becomes an issue if both parents were born outside of the UK, so hold their citizenship by descent, AND no grandparents were born in the UK AND neither parent can prove a strong tie to the UK (e.g. residence of at least 3 years) AND you hold other nationalities. But not many people know that, they just read the generic guidance and assume it's a problem. As long as you have a British born grandparent you can apply for citizenship. As long as you are entitled to no other nationality you are entitled to citizenship - or you'd be stateless.

So really, being born in the UK or not proves bugger all. You have a British passport and only a British passport, which states your place of birth if that's what they're fussed about. As far as they are concerned that should be sufficient proof.

C4ro go to Paris to the embassy there to get the passport done, otherwise it probably won't be done in time.