Where would you choose to live - Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra, Wellington or Auckland?

[thentherewerethree]

We are fortunate enough to have the choice of living in any of these places...but can't make up our minds! We are currently living in the UK but all of our family are in New Zealand. We have a two year old DD and are looking to relocate back to the antipodes next year.

If you had the choice between Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra, Wellington or Auckland, where would you go? Or would you go somewhere else altogether?

We are looking for what every other family is, I guess - reasonable housing, good schools, on an average wage (does such a place even exist??!!)

Thanks in advance, all opinions gratefully received...

Thank you Jojo7...we've been lucky enough to be financially quite well off in the UK (although not as homeowners; we've rented for 10 years). We have been able to afford to travel quite a lot, and be on one income with DH as a SAHD. I'm a bit worried that NZ wages might mean no more travel to exciting places! We are NZ citizens so thankfully don't have to worry about visas...that's why we have the choice between Australia or NZ. We also have UK citizenship so could relocate to Europe...but with all family in NZ, I think we'd be best somewhere in the antipodes.

Strange responses re Canberra.
I haven't read them all but it seems most people's opinions seem to be based on visiting only.
We have family who live there and I have to say that while it is no tourist destination it is a very liveable city. Amazing schools, roads, parks, recreation facilities etc. Fantastic sense of community and a very safe place to raise children. If you were moving there for wild nights in your 20s I'd say no, but with small children it is an exellent choice.
Beautiful countryside around the city too.
Personally I would choose Sydney, but if I wanted more for my money I would go for Canberra.

Auckland (preferably somewhere near a beach - e.g. Eastern Bays or North Shore). Or Melbourne. Both fantastic places to live.

How exciting! A thread I actually know something about. I have lived in Auckland, Melbourne and Canberra, and am very familiar with Wellington (DH is from there) and also Sydney a little.

My gut reaction is that Auckland is top (but that is possibly because I have so many friends and family there!). The beaches really are great. Fond memories of floating in the sea after work in the summer! Downsides: traffic and don't forget it actually rains quite a lot there too.

I think you need an opinion from someone who has actually lived in Canberra. It is a great place for families. Excellent housing and brilliant parks, cycle lanes everywhere, bush in the middle of the city etc. Once a kangaroo bounded right past our kitchen window! But (big but) we found it hard to make friends there, and friends were understandably reluctant to come and visit us there. It's a real pain to get to (v long drive or horrible flight from Sydney) so you can feel quite isolated. And it is SO HOT that for much of the summer I felt like I would faint if I went outdoors before 6pm. On balance I would put it bottom of your list. (So same opinion as others, I guess, but I least I have actually tried it!)

I loved my time in Melbourne, but I was single, had a massive income, lived in a swanky sea-front apartment at Port Melbourne, and dined at top restaurants several times a week, so no wonder! I would not be so keen on some of the Melbourne suburbs where I guess you would live with a family. It's not like Auckland, Wellington, or Sydney where there are interesting bits of harbour and hills all over the place to break up the geography and make it interesting.

We are actually thinking of moving to Wellington atm. DH is really keen. I think if it happens we might consider living "over the hill" in the South Wairarapa. We have family vineyards in Martinborough, and we could get a nice house and a bit of land for the same price as a Wellington house, as long as DH could handle the commute. Nicer weather than Wellington.

I debate back and forth on this stuff as over the years we have considered all the places on your list. I have actually come to the conclusion that once you have been a "roamer" no single place is going to feel 100% home, so you just have to make the most of the advantages of where you happen to be at the time, and try to ignore the "should I be somewhere else?" feeling!

Sorry it's so long but hope it's useful. Good luck!

Many thanks for your votes!

Ponymum - great to hear from someone who has tried or knows them all, it's really useful. Definately understand what you mean about once you have been a "roamer". I am apprehensive about staying put in one place for 15 years but want to for the sake of DD - she is likely to be an only child so we want to settle to give her the best chance of making and keeping friendships, and for her to have some relationship with her grandparents/aunts/cousins who all live in the South Island of NZ. Really my fear is about having to hang up my travelling boots - but hopefully Auckland, whilst it is in NZ, won't feel quite like the complete end of the earth like Timaru did (where I grew up - couldn't leave fast enough!!) and we will still be able to travel to foreign climes every now and again from there. My concerns about Sydney and Melbourne are commuting times - having suffered long commutes for eight years in London, I'd like to cut it down and claim some life back again. Also think property prices might be more in Sydney/Melbourne than Auckland, but do hear that wages are higher...
We are definately guilty of thinking that somewhere else is always better than where we are, think we need to stop that as it just makes us miserable!

Ponymum, yes do move to Wellie! I can put in a big vote for Greytown. Martinborough doesn't have a train service so unless your DH wants to drive each day you probably shouldn't live there. The train station is also 5kms from Greytown but that's a lot closer than M'boro and there's a lot more going on in Greytown too - M'boro really only a wine town. Greytown weather is fab too - I had a weekend place there for 2 years and still miss having it as my weekend bolt-hole. Houses there have gone up in price but you could either build your dream home on a nice flat peice of land or buy a really really nice house for the same price as a very average house in Wellington. Personally I couldn't commute but I do contemplate from time to time throwing in my stressful corporate Wellie job and moving there and growing veges and chickens...

thentherewere Gosh, you have expressed so many of the exact same concerns that we have! DD is 15 mths and we now feel the responsibility of having to decide which country's identity she is going to grow up with. Gut feeling is we want her to feel that she IS actually a NZer, despite us living in the UK for years and her having never been to NZ! Plus, who is she going to have in her life who has known her right from the start? (Does that make sense?) We grew up with lots of siblings and cousins around us, and I feel she needs something like that too.

Yes, I had a terrible commute in Melbourne. Hated it.

buzzybee (love the name btw!) Yes we are thinking of Greytown too for those reasons. But we have grandparents and cousins in M'boro so that's a head start on breaking into social circles, babysitters on hand, etc. (I had to laugh at "only a wine town" - like there's a problem with that? hic!) DH thought he would drive to the station at Featherston. Also we like hills and Greytown seems very flat, unless you go towards the foothills then you get no sun. I know this well as my uncle still farms the family farm at Woodside. It's freezing! DH will be over there next week so I am currently trawling property sites trying to find places for him to go and look at. Currently this is our fave.

Don't get me started Ponymum or you'll have me over there in a flash scouring the Wairarapa for your perfect property!
If you haven't been there in a while you'll be amazed at how Greytown's changed. The locals now complain its over-run by Wellingtonians. My other complaint about M'boro is the bitterly cold southerlies in winter. G'town also to a degree but not as bad.
Anyway in Greytown to get the best view and still be in the best town (just my biased opinion you understand!) try the far eastern end of Jellicoe St. Like this section

www.propertybrokers.co.nz/5.html?product_group_id=1&property_type_id=0®ion_id=2&area_id=15&price_fro m=0&priceto=0&rentalpricefrom=0&rentalpriceto=0&propertybuylease=buy&form_uid=1259230305&r=sea rch&PropertySortBy=sortByTitle&style=GU10411&page=4

This also looks quite nice
www.propertybrokers.co.nz/5.html?product_group_id=1&property_type_id=0®ion_id=2&area_id=15&price_fro m=0&priceto=0&rentalpricefrom=0&rentalpriceto=0&propertybuylease=buy&formuid=1259230305&r=sea rch&PropertySortBy=sortByTitle&searchhistory_id=1966499&style=GU10429&page=1

Oh and even though I was a Wellingtonian (albeit that my Mum's from Masterton originally) I found I had no problems making friends in G'town and I was only there weekends!

what happened there??!!

Buzzybee - I'd go for the second one, it's gorgeous!

Ponymum - Know exactly what you mean about deciding what cultural identity to have DD grow up with. Having tried out a couple of different British identities (we haven't only lived in London during our time in the UK) it has become clear that the UK isn't where we want to bring her up; we want her to have the values and cultural aspects of being antipodean. However having said that, I also want to make sure that she knows that London is where she was born and spent her younger years, and will look for any excuse to bring her back here for holidays!

This is an old thread but was wondering what happened to everyone on it who was deciding to go south?! Were there happy ending reached?

I'm a kiwi living with a kiwi in London and have a two little Londoners we're thinking of taking home soon. But we love London too.

Hi SmB, I was thentherewerethree. Wow, nearly four years on from starting the thread! We're still in England, but north, having finally found an area where we are as happy as what we will probably be anywhere. Kind of found ourselves here by accident, by following job and study opportunities. But it's working well, fab community, lovely countryside nearby and London only two hours away. My daughter is identifying strongly with being English but at the same time developing some uniquely kiwi traits (getting in trouble at school for running around barefoot!). We are trying to foster the best of both cultures in her and it seems to be working. At the moment I'm thinking we're unlikely to return to NZ, the career and travel opportunities just aren't there for us. More likely to be Australia in 3-4 years time...but not sure. I seem to be a bit scared to actually bite the bullet and leave England. It has, after all, been home for twelve years.

As Kiwis moving to Australia, you need to check stuff out very carefully. Citizenship is almost impossible for kiwis to get and access to Centrelink and disability services are very limited. There's no fee help for uni either for your kids. You come as a permanent resident and you are stuck as a permanent resident.

Hi SmB and stillastruggle. Gosh I love mumsnet at times like this!

I am a kiwi, lived in London for 11 years and have just returned home to my hometown (south island) and I think I am regretting it. Difference for me is that I have a British husband (welsh) and we have a big, very supportive family in the UK who we miss dreadfully. I was REALLY homesick for NZ, did lots of research and thought about all the obvious things like reverse culture shock, cost of living BUT the move has surprised me and I guess my 11 years in the UK changed me more than I thought. I really miss lots about the UK. There is plenty I don't miss but somehow now it feels like I could accept the negatives more easily. I don't think I looked at NZ through rose tinted specs, I knew what the issues and negatives are but guess what I had underestimated was that I would come back looking at NZ with almost "British" eyes as I feel like I have a lot of the same complaints as disgruntled Brits - insular, small town attitudes, apathy, high cost of living even though we are on a good income and have a nice house, great schools etc it doesn't feel like enough. I am not a huge cultural person but I do miss the broad view on things in the UK, the debates, the discussion, the variety. I even miss some aspects of the British seaside, access to other cultures and countries more easily. We are finding my hometown a bit gossipy, enclosed. Perfectly liveable and we have more than enough to do for our two young kids but it doesn't feel like enough any more. I thought I would be happy going to the beach, days out, low stress but it all feels a bit underwhelming. Socially we know it will take time to build our lives back up but it feels so quiet and restrained here. I have been a bit shocked by the levels of poverty here, sadly you see and expect it in the UK but to see it here has been a bit shocking. We thought about moving up To Auckland but we want to be near family (on either side of the world) and I'm not sure we could afford Auckland.

Having children really affected me, otherwise I would have been content to have stayed I the UK forever with lots of trips home but somehow children increased the pull home. Now I fear that my kids will grow up insular, parochial and will get stuck here. House prices in Auckland are ridiculous and wages are not increasing!

I am so proud to be a kiwi but I think we are kind of sold this myth that it's the best place on earth to grow up. There are lots of problems here (as there is in the UK) but there's not much acknowledgement here. Listening to talkback is embarrassing - people are so blatantly racist and sexist.

It may be different if we were both kiwis but at the moment I feel like I want to go back to the UK. The two countries are so different making it so hard to compare, but at the moment I feel like I am willing to accept the negatives in the UK for all the positives. Here I feel a bit stuck, bored and restless already. So glad to know that there are other kiwi's out there having some dilemmas too! stillastruggle it doesn't seem like you regret staying in the UK at all, nice to hear a positive story!

We are in Australia now and came here 14 years ago. I'd love to go back to NZ but I want to go back to Christchurch that was.

We've been in the UK 11yrs now, my folks came over from NZ when I was pregnant with our first child and five years later they are ready to go back to NZ... cue the massive guilt trips over how much longer we will be in the UK, why aren't we trying harder go clear our debt, the children will desperately miss them etc but now DS is at school I feel more connected to our community and fear moving back to NZ for the first time in over a decade. I really am feeling stuck between a rock and hard place, we do have a nice life here but I miss so much about life in NZ, but how do you know if it's rose tinted... and HOW MUCH for milk and cheese???!!!

But ultimately I don't think we can not try, for the sake of the kids and their relationship with their grandparents, I couldn't break my mother's heart by going back on our promises to move back... feels like financial suicide tho

StUmbrageinSkelt thanks, I have seen some worrying reports on that issue in the NZ media. I think if we were to go, I'd look at taking some kind of route that leads to citizenship; maybe emigrate as British, rather than rely on our NZ citizenship to get us in. Can I ask why you would like to return to NZ rather than stay in Aus - family, jobs, lifestyle?

whisperwales you have perfectly articulated my concerns about going back. I find England can be physically claustrophobic but New Zealand mentally claustrophobic. And I'm starting to think I'd rather have the former than the latter, because living in the part of England I am now, we can escape the overcrowding reasonably easily. England is difficult to live in sometimes; but it's also fantastically diverse, stimulating and vibrant. My daughter is developing a great outlook by travelling to Morocco, Spain, Iceland...There's always something to observe, something to debate, something to think about. I'm concerned that if we went back to NZ for the sake of my child, she is just going to leave there when she's older anyway, just like so many of us do. And then I'll be stuck in a country I don't really want to be in slowly going mad with boredom. But I wouldn't say that I have no regrets about staying in the UK...it's just that I am choosing to live with the regrets that being here give me, rather than choosing to live with the regrets that living in NZ would give me. It would be regrets either way! Staying in the UK means my child doesn't know her grandparents, cousins etc and I feel quite a bit of guilt as a result, and that I'm being selfish by putting my own needs in adulthood ahead of her childhood.

kiwidreamer that's such a difficult position. In some ways it's easier for me as I don't have a close relationship with my family so don't miss them; only guilt because my child doesn't know any family beyond her mother and father. I have had several friends return back to Aus or NZ recently, all because of being pulled by family. Good luck with the move.

Oh kiwidreamer that is a bit of a predicament for you. Yes, I think emotional ties and guilt are very powerful. Thankfully my family have never put pressure on me to return to NZ although they were happy for us all come back (especially as my two are the only grandkids) and I would feel awful leaving now but as we can't win with family on both sides of the world we think we have to do what is best for our little family and what makes us happy.

There was so much I missed about NZ life too. I don't think I had rose tinted glasses but I think I said in my earlier post I probably underestimated how "British" I had become. When I left NZ aged 26 I was happy with my life in NZ. I left to get some work experience overseas. 11 years later and I am of course a completely different person. I longed for empty beaches, familiarity, a more simple, uncomplicated life. Maybe we'll adapt to it all but it feels like too much of a step down. stillastruggle put it perfectly that England/UK can be physically claustrophobic. I got so fed up of that, living in a flat with two kids in London. Feeling trapped and stressed, looking back that probably contributed to my homesickness. I always used to compare things I.e beaches, food etc but I did get a bit rose tinted in believing that there were no grim parts to NZ - well there are. There are lots of areas that are run down just as in the UK. Beaches are wonderful as ever but there are great beaches in the UK, plus the ability to travel to lots of different parts of the UK and of course easy access to Europe.

I always used to read all the gripes british expats had about NZ and laugh, now I can't believe I agree with most of them!

Totally agree about being able to escape the masses in the UK but more difficult to expand your mind here. We went to Queenstown recently and I was so underwhelmed it was really sad. Beautiful surroundings but I just a bit meh about it all. Driving through parts of central otago was quite depressing, barren and empty. I truly love NZ and am so grateful I got to grow up here, but it is different (good and bad) and I think I needed to come back to really decide whether I wanted to raise my children here and in a way I feel guilty because I know that this is more about me too. I have in a way outgrown NZ.

Things are expensive but I knew that so no surprise there. We had a recent quote for curtains $4,700 dollars for curtains in four rooms!!! TBH we would do okay staying here with both of us working, but no-one comes home to earn their fortune.

I had to give it a go and now the dilemma is do we cut our losses and go back sooner rather than later. I don't want to stay here for 2-3 years and then go back because then it will have changed in the UK too and I don't want to ping pong back and forth. I also don't think it's fair on the kids to stay too long and then move back. Having said that no decisions made yet, but lots of talking. i am a bit scared of living a large part of my life in another country, not something i ever thought i would do.

stillstruggling my guilt is my children too. They could have a great childhood in NZ but it certainly doesn't have the monopoly on that. There are plenty of worrying things going on in NZ such as K2 etc. I'm sure you are giving your child the wonderful opportunities that the UK can offer and more importantly happy, contented parents. I tell myself that a good childhood is about parenting, values, beliefs...not just a physical place. Growing up in NZ does not guarantee a idyllic or non-problematic childhood.

Oh hate typing on iPad, hope it all makes sense!

I grew up in Chch, came to Australia when I was 13, went back when I was 24, got married, bought a house in South Canterbury (which was a nightmare of a place to be an incomer in), came back to Australia for family support when my DH was unwell. Now both my kids have disabilities which were diagnosed after we came here. This is an infinitely better country to be dealing with the issues we are dealing with. I do love aspects of Australia but Christchurch was the place that I felt at peace and I always intended to go back some day.

I would never come here as a Kiwi now. The immigration stuff is simply too grim in the longterm.

It would be nice if it were simple wouldn't it?

whisperwales you are completely right about what makes a happy childhood. I spent over ten years working with teenagers and saw the effects of troubled parents outweigh anything to do with physical surroundings. And in my own situation, the reason why I live so far from my parents is because my childhood was miserable. I grew up in South Canterbury, much time spent in the mountains and at the sea, bach beside the lake, the supposedly idyllic kiwi lifestyle. But I was very unhappy. The scenery didn't make up for parents that were stressed, clinically depressed, not coping with their children and constant fighting with siblings. It's only now that I have my own child I'm starting to understand this. If I'm completely honest, I don't want to go back to NZ because it means being too close to family. But that doesn't feel very fair for my own child, and it feels strange bringing up my child with a different accent and cultural base to mine and her father's (he is kiwi also). Although I think this is not uncommon these days - multinational children and families. If you are to come back to the UK, there are certainly places outside of London where there is space. The weather is the downside though.

StUmbrageinSkelt I wish I had a place where I felt peaceful and at home'. But it must be very difficult for you not to be able to live there. I think I have spent much of my adult life travelling around searching for home'. Am only just in the past year starting to realise that home for me might be where I decide to make it, rather than a place I stumble into and feel instantly at peace.

Totally get you stillastruggle. Not for the same reasons but being at home does create some inner turmoil for me. I think a lot of people think it is quite idyllic and some sort of paradise. You are so right, scenery doesn't make up for bad parenting. Sorry that your parents were so shit, brave and courageous choice you have made. Many don't and repeat a negative cycle! I survive quite well away from my family too. It's not ideal but I don't miss them terribly (not in an awful way)

We would live in a fairly big city (by kiwi standards) but would have fairly easy access to the sea and countryside plus all the amenities and upsides of a cosmopolitan city (shopping!!). I'm not a die hard shopper by any means but a bit more choice would be wonderful.

I too feel weird about the whole cultural thing, but it is so common as you say in the UK. I like being a bit different too and anonymous! It's so small here, everyone knows someone which is a bit claustrophobic and awkward at times.

I think you are totally onto it about making the place you are in yours. I took a lot for granted when I lived in the UK. At times too busy comparing and being wistful about home, so not always appreciating what I had in front of me.

StUm I think people are cottoning on to the fact that Oz is not the cash cow it's cracked up to be. Wages may be higher but in most cases u less you are from Auckland - housing etc will be higher. It is a good move for lots of people but it can be difficult for people if they lose their jobs. The citizenship issue is very important and not a risk I would probably want to take.