Geneva- pls help me get excited about it

[toomanylanguages]

DH has a very good job offer in Geneva. he is really excited about it and quite decided (in his mind) he wants to take it. i am not so sure.

i am not british (neither is dh) but we've been living here now for 10 years, we've had two dcs, i have a job i love whcih is part time for now but where i could realistically see myself having an actual career, i have tons of friends etc.

i feel i would be giving up everything if we move- prob never find a job again (my field is quite specialised), will take ages to make friends... i really don't want to be an expat wife (with no offense whatsover to expat wives- but it's just not me, my mum was one as we moved around a lot and she has so many regrets now... i have an MSc and i am actually quite good at what i do and i feel i would be wasting it all- i never planned to stop working), and i am dreading being in a new city, alone, having to start everything from scratch, schools etc etc...

i know i am being silly- it is a great opportunity and i just need to be more flexible... but i just can't help feeling really negative about it all... i had my future all mapped out and now i feel it's being taken out of my hands...

languages are another problem (although i speak french it would be the fourth language for my dcs- i have already posted here)

sorry for the moan- as i said if someone's up to make me feel more excited about it, i'd be really grateful!

I will hold your hand all the way through it. Promise.

I know how hard it is to move - my stepfather joined the U.N. when I was 9 and I changed schools 5 times. We were all over the place & I hated leaving my friends, home and school each time but I'm now very glad for the experience and open-mindedness that adapting to different cultures gave me. My mum tried to be a SAHM but got very depressed so found work everywhere we went. She was trained as a SN teacher but adapted her skills. She eventually became an editor for a well-known international publication before retiring. So fear not!

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toomany, if it's any help, I did this - gave up being the main wage earner in fact - to follow my DH to Brussels. It was positively SCARY giving up my job without another one to go to. As it turned out, I had a couple of months to get DD sorted, organise the new apartment and sign up with agencies. We moved in April, I had a job by June. I actually wished for some more time off .

I know I'm not in Geneva, but I consider that mainland Europe is SOOO much more family friendly than the UK. I miss my friends, but there are plenty of opportunities to meet people.

toomany you have to tell your DH how you feel
The move does have to suit you both otherwise you will start to resent him.

As you can tell there are a few of us already here
And if you do decide to come we can try and help

Could you take a career break ?

Hello. I am in a similar situation, so if it's any help I will let you have my thoughts: I am not British either, but we have previously been expatriated to the UK for 4 years. I am a lawyer and had to study for the first few months to become a Solicitor.It IS quite hard to quit a job and it DOES take some time getting used to being a SAHM in a new country. Having said that I wouldn't be without it for the world. I find that you get a much better perspective of what is important and not and you are able to define a revised set of values for you and your family. I believe that is a gift you can give your DC's as well to know that things can be done differently. In our case it strenghtened the relationship with my DH to experience a new country together even when before going we were both very much careerminded.

We are now planning to move to Switzerland later this year. I plan on updating my skills for the first few months again and then find a joc. Regarding properties I would recommend you search on site.immostreet.ch/asp/base.asp?lan_code=eng.

Good luck if you decide to go!

I also have dual British/Canadian nationality and spent lots of my childhood in Geneva and my dad lives there still. I love the place and would move there like a shot if jobs permitted.

I agree that London will still be here in a few years and that you should try to embrace the opportunity if you can. It is a wonderful place to grow up so think of the benefits for your children too.

I do sympathise with the expat wife thing though - I know my mum found it very hard.

There are several multinational companies in and around Geneva - what is your field of work? Are you sure you wouldn't be able to work?

Aha! Kitsilano, eh? Same province

thanks everyone. i am trying really hard to be positive. bloody hard though!!! i had a look a the link NewDKmum posted and there's some really nice flats there, so that's cheered me up a bit.

my brother also suggested i could do an MBA or another postgrad degree while i am there- which is a really good idea, actually, and something i need to explore a bit more.

dh are not really speaking right now, so i reckon that's the priority. i need to snap out of my resentful victim mode- but i need him to realise how i feel about things and that my fears are real, and not just me being precious.

btw toomanylanguages is a name change- will revert to my original name (which i like a lot more!) once things become official.

I am also Canadian... From the same province... Interesting to think that you are out there somewhere!

how easy to find a nice apartment? Very and they are not cheap. They go fast so if you see one you like, act fast.

how big/small are they (i know housing is expensive)? About the same as London--it varies with the price and location.

any property websites where i can get a taste of flats?

how is public transport (i hate driving)? Very good. Driving in Geneva is a nightmare. Avoid it anytime of the day. Do not live on the other side of the Pont de Mont Blanc from where you need to work. You will not get there in a car very quickly.

how about pre-schools and nurseries, what age do they start and are there any bilingual ones? Varies by Canton, but in Geneva around 3. Lots of bilingual ones, but caveat emptor: check them out to see what that means (teachers who speak both, classes taught in both, or just single language French and single language English taught in parallel).

how much does private/international school cost? CHF12-15K. Beware, though, they tend to have long waiting lists. There are a variety of types, from International schools teaching IB, to ones that follow British curriculum, to French International Lycees, as well as private, multilingual Swiss ones.

can you get your groceries online? yes, from both major supermarkets (Leshop.ch and coop@home)

how expensive is it to find domestic help (eg cleaner, babysitter, nanny?)? Because of the very favourable arrangements made for domestic help (social assistance, insurance, etc.) they are very expensive here...if you get someone legal, even if through an agency. We were quoted CHF210 for 4 hours/week.

But, it is beautiful with friendly people by London standards.

Hello fellow Canadian/Geneva fans

Maybe it's because Geneva and BC have a lot in common that I love them both so much.

But still somehow I am living in London.

Stick with it Toomanylanguages...

It's because Canucks from BC are the friendliest, of course.

Cadmum - good points. But there are some excellent relocation services around (I used to work for one). Of course, nothing's cheap. The expatriated usually get it all - juicy salary, private health insurance, housing, education, relocation, pension... you name it. It sounds like toomany's dh would be coming in as an expat so perks would apply. Ah, the life! Easy, peasy lemon-squeezy but not emotionally. I told dh about this thread & he said his 1st marriage began to fall apart when he & ex-dw moved from London to Monaco. He thinks that toomany is right to be anxious about the move. I said if toomany refuses to go, her dh will always wonder what he might have missed to which dh replied no job is worth a marriage. So it's up to you to sort it out, toomany! Good luck.

Toomany: Will you be offered a relocation service? Does your DH's company pay a portion of your rent? I have met people in a variety of situations and while is does help to have lots of money, happiness cannot be bought.

I agree that the first thing you need to do is really talk to your dh. Not easy when he is all yes and you are mostly no... There isn't really much room for compromise but might he consider moving 6 months ahead of your family in case he doesn't like it here?

everyone, thank you so much. you have no idea how your words and messages are helping. truly, MN at its best- i am in deep debt to all of you.

i have had a very emotional weekend- i think (i hope) i reached rock bottom and dh and i had a pretty tearful and charged confrontation yesterday, not helped by the fact dd2 kept waking up (teething or sensing my anxiety, bah).

i think that was somehow cathartic- i can truly say that now i can focus on the important things. namely, the practicalities. because if this really is the opportunity of a lifetime for DH, i won't stand in the way- and i'll move and i'll make it work and i'll enjoy my life there.

but i need to be sure this really is it... and the financial details are crucial... i have done a few back of the envelope calculations and our life in Geneva would be at least 50% more expensive than here... the dds would have to go to private school (while in london i just managed through sheer hard work to get dd1 into an outstanding catholic school which is free), no way i am schooling them in a fourth language, and i want to make sure that our standard of living is at least maintained (that means cleaner and some childcare- sorry, i know i am spoiled, but there you go!).

if that is all possible, and comfortably so, then yes it makes complete sense to move. i will find something, or go back to uni, or whatever, or embrace my SAHMess in the knowledge that we are giving our dds the best possible life... but if not, then, i think i am right to be resistant to the idea.

do you think AIBU?

In answer to your last post, YANBU. Definitely not. Marriage is a compromise. And I see a lot of expat marriages break up. Especially due to the Thai bride cliche - man ditches loyal expat wife for young, compliant, non-resenting model...
Thankfully, that's not really applicable in Western Europe.

As someone who moved to Geneva last month because of DHs job, with a four-month-old, I know how you feel. At the moment, I consider myself to be on maternity leave (albeit unpaid), and think I'll take 12 months off. Living here, as expats, we can afford for me to do that - it wouldn't be a possibility in the UK. However, I'm also very career minded, and although I can do my job here, it's harder to get back on the ladder at the same level I'd be in the UK. I'm a bit worried about that.

I really don't want to be a stereotypical expat wife - although from what I've experience here, and in previous postings, they may be a dying breed these days.

It's a very traditional society, not yet geared towards working mothers in the way the UK is, and SAHM is the norm among the Swiss. Not so for expats. Childcare is expensive: lots of creches don't accept children until about 18 months, and have 12 month long waiting lists. However, I've just found a nursery in France (next to the border) that charges 1000 Euros per month for full-time 7am - 7pm. And it looks quite good. So there are ways around it. Also, Nanny-sharing, Mama du Jours etc etc. I've not heard of anyone who hasn't been able to work for childcare reasons - people find a way, somehow!

My advice is, if your DH takes the job, try and keep a window of time in which to go back to London if you're not happy. Exciting, lively and cool, Geneva is not. But it's charming, extremely civilised, safe (bar increasing burglaries in my village), accessible and friendly.

To be honest, I am feeling lonely and isolated right now, but having done this before, know that won't last too long. Also, as flights from the UK are so short and cheap, we have visitors block-booked all summer. Although that could be a downside for you!

Sorry, I'm a bit sleep deprived hence waffly post.

No. I don't think that you are being unreasonable at all.

I am sorry that you have had such an emotional weekend but it is probably better to deal with these feelings before you finalise your moving plans.

It is not easy to move when you feel that it is all about your dh especially if you are not convinced that it is really the opportunity of a lifetime.

Do you know if your DH's company will pay for private school? Rental subsidy?

Some companies offer very generous packages including full tuition and relocation services while others pay higher salaries but leave you to fend for yourselves.

My dh is about to leave for 10 days and it is at time like this that I am reminded how stretched to the limits I feel. I only have romantic notions of how life might be near family or with the perfect job so that helps me to keep things in perspective. It would be very hard for me if I felt that my 'real' life had been left behind. I don't have the resources or the back up here to prevent me from feeling isolated and lonely. My friends here are in either similar situations or completely unable to relate.

Friends and family back home hear Switzerland and think that our lives must be so perfect that it drives a wedge between us.

Keep talking to your dh and posting here. I am glad that some of the responses are helping.

just to add to what fondue said. A very close freind of mine when to Japan with her DH and became a SAHM. They really hadn't thought about the stress being a SAHM would place on their marriage. She missed working, had little in common with teh other SAHM who tended on the whole to be signifiacntly younger than her. And in her case she didn;t speak the language.

None the less, she persevered and learnt some rudimentary Japanese and made some friends. But she was so much more dependent on her DH than she ever had been - no friends or family to moan at so DH got it all, no job to stimulate her so really looked farward to him coming home so she could discuss his then she started resenting it when he didn't come home after work.

Their marriage didn't last as long as his contract

I think you are wise to be so thoughtful up front and your DH needs to listen to you about how the dynamic in your relationship might change and how he might feel about that.

I would also be inclined to set a time frame on it, max number of years before returning to UK.

Could DH communte? Geneva isn't that difficult a commute.

I am glad to hear that you and your DH have had a very open and honest talk about your reservations.

I am quite happy to be a SAHM and follow DH around but am looking into doing a OU course next year as it does get boring after all teh settling in is done.

You have had some great advice on this thread. I only want to add that the most important thing is that if and when you make the decision to move you need to try to be positive about it and let go of your anxiety and thoughts of the past.

The women that I have met who have been happy here are the ones who have not constantly compared their life at present with their life back home. We all do to some extent, it is natural but there are a lot of women who spend their whole time (or so it seems) moaning about how life back home was better/easier/more fun/easier to get orange cheese...

If you go for it, then it does help to be in a good financial sitation as Geneva is not cheap. The expat package differs enormously from company to company.

Would the company cover the cost of internation schools/housing?

There are a fair few of us in Geneva. We should maybe do a MN meetup. Is anyone interested?

Gosh this thread has moved along since me wittering about chocolate bread.

Toomany - I gave up my career to move overseas with my dh as he got a good job opportunity 9 years ago and on bad days I am resentful of that and we both know that my career could not be resurrected now as I am out-of-date with legislation and practices. But we couldn't have afforded another child had we stayed in London so no dd2. I am quite happy at the moment to be a SAHM and life is so much logistically easier with someone at home all day. I look at living in a different country as a challenge and my 'job' to cope with it - I will now have to re-learn French to get the most out of living here and this keeps the grey matter ticking over.

I am also grateful we have had this opportunity and we are on our second country - my dds already speak another language and are now learning their third. This time we are using the International school and I love the complete mix of children there and how it is 'normal' for them.

Finally, I would say nothing is for ever - as others have siad set a time limit and reassess then.

MmeLindt - I love the orange cheese analogy I knew a lady in Wien who had to bring soft white sliced bread over with her as Vienese bread was too hard!

I am interested in a meet-up I have only so far, through school, met what I would call typical ex-pat wives - you know the type who have tennis lessons on Tuesday and mani-pedi on a Thursday...sooo not me.

I think that I might be up for a meet-up.

I love the anonymity of MN but since Geneva is miles from MN Towers (and the vast majority of people that I interact with on here), I could probably summon the courage.

I am also MILES and MILES from tennis on Tuesdays and mani-pedi on Thursdays... Looks more like laundry every morning and bung my hair into a pony-tail to rush out the door!

Meet up thread here

So we don't hijack this thread.

I am not a manicure/pedicure kind of gal either. Don't mind it as a treat every so often but not weekly.

Manicure - Nah
Tennis lessons - Nah

Wine - yes
coffee - yes

I am far to lazy to be a expat
I would`nt last 5 minutes nor would our bank balance !

Good for you

all the best with the move and let us know when you get here