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Living overseas

Whether you're considering emigrating or an expat abroad, you'll find likeminds on this forum.

Tell me about Sydney

31 replies

Spoo · 23/01/2009 20:14

My DH was made redundant before Xmas. One of the job opportunities that has come up is in Sydney. We know no more than that. Please can you tell me what it is like with kids in Sydney. What is the commute like, what holidays will he be likely to get. What happens with schooling. DS1 is due to start here in September.

We are very cautious people and the thought of upping sticks is scaring the wits out of us but we do need to at least consider it.

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BecauseImWorthIt · 23/01/2009 20:17

I don't know anything about living/working there, but Sydney is a fabulous city. I would seriously consider going there if I was you.

DH has 2 nieces who have both gone there and now have their residency/citizenship, and we have friends who emigrated 20 years ago.

We've only been as tourists, but it is such a brilliant place.

sydneyhousewife · 24/01/2009 04:12

I love Sydney!!! Born there, went to school & uni there, worked there... but never lived there with kids (though been back for holidays with my 2 DCs.... there's loads of parks & they love it too). I've always lived on the North Shore /Northern beaches.. beautiful, & very green. There is a lot of traffic though & housing is expensive (though no worse than UK). Sorry can't help with schools. How long would you be out here for? Where would you be living/ working... Sydney is very sprawled out.

Astrophe · 24/01/2009 06:41

Hi, I am an Aussie, living in Sydney now, but just got back from living in the UK. Today it was 41 degrees in Sydney and HRRIBLE!!!! But its not normally this hot!

Sydney is a great city for children. It is green, clean, safe, lovely parks, lots of cheap and free things to do (beach, ferry trips, parks etc), as well as lovely cultural things for you and the kids (good art galleries and museums, 2 great aquariums, fabulous zoo, kids performances at the Opera House).

The education system is very good. Local state schools are obliged to accept all kids in the catchment area, and are generally good, particularly th primary schools. In NSW, kids can start Kindergarten (reception) at 4.5 years in February. (I think they have to turn 5 before the und of July the year they start - that date may be slightly off though). It is generally reccomended that June/July children DO NOT start though, and instead wait until the next year...and so start at 5 and a half years old. The decision is made by the parents though, although some schools actively discourage young starters and some private schools refuse to take them). I hope that makes sense - I know its hard to get your head arouns the school years in foreign countries. The school year runs from the beginning of Feb to the middle/end of December.

I agree that housing is expensive. Eating out is cheap (relative to the UK), petrol is cheap, cars are expensive, fresh fod and groceries are a bit cheaper but not massively.

Some useful sites - NSW education www.schools.nsw.edu.au/

Woolworths (supermarket like Tescos) - you can do a hyperthetical online shop to check out grocery prices. www.woolworths.com.au/

Domain - a property site for rentals and sales although TBH you can do better when you actually talk to agents...but it will give you a idea perhaps.
www.domain.com.au/

What is your lifestlye like in the UK? What things do you like about it? There will be things you will miss here - it is not the same...has a different feel, different lifestyle...but depending on what you like, you may just love it.

I would say set yourself at least 2 years to stay and give it a good try - it takes a while to settle i anywhere. Having said that, I think Australians are generally pretty friendly - you are much more likely to strike up a friendly conversation with another Mum in the park here than in the UK.

Any other questions, ask, and I will do my best to answer

Spoo · 24/01/2009 08:55

Thank you so much for the advice. We don't know the full story yet. DH is trying to arrange to meet the guy to chat through the options.

Good question about our lifestyle in the UK. I've never really thought about what it is like but I'll try and answer. We are relatively active and hate staying in. DH is originally from Cornwall and he likes the idea of living by the sea again. The kids love visiting cornwall and DS1 (despite being just shy of 4) wants to be a surfer when his older. So I suppose that is a positive for Aus.

the biggest problem would be moving away from family. Although they don't live close, we get to see them every few months or so - that would obviously change.

We have a 4 bed house and live in a nice town at the moment that has great schools all within walking distance. I have lots of friends locally that I have built up through the kids and really am a very social person, as is my DH.

We like skiing as well and would probably miss some definition of the seasons.

The two things I am worrying about the most is the affect on DS education. And if DH loves it and I hate it or vice versa.

I suppose at the moment it would be a matter of readjusting our concept of the future and having a concept of what it would be like. My main questions would be;
What is an average day like?
What do you do in the evenings?
Can you get a curry?
Do you have to drive everywhere - like in urban areas of America?
What is the commute like?

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ZZZen · 24/01/2009 09:05

actually where you are now sounds quite nice

well Sydney has some very nice areas. Your commute depends of course on where you live, hard to judge that. When I visited my sister who was lived in Sydney for 2 years before moving to Canberra (where they have winter and snow btw), her commute consisted of walking to the end of the street and catching the ferry boat into the main harbour. Lovely stress-free commute but as I said, depends where you live.

I thought the people in Sydney seemed very chatty and helpful. I didn't have dc when I visited and neither did my sister, so can't comment on that. We went to the Blue Mountains (you should find that if you google), very nice. There are the beaches, anything related to activities in the water, canoeing, rowing, sailing, swimming. My nieces do a lot of swimming, at home in the pool and at clubs. i think the Australian govt supports swimming clubs or soemthing, in any case it is very affordable and very good apparently.

My nieces go to a private girls' school, wonderful facilities , seems to be good.

Lots of different ethnic backgrounds in Sydney, so there are many types of different restaurants, curry shouldn't be any problem.

ZZZen · 24/01/2009 09:06

sorry about all the tipos!

schprooz · 24/01/2009 09:07

Haven't lived there, but have been to Sydney a few times and my impression was that it would be the nicest place in the whole world to live for a family by miles and miles. It's beautiful, the climate's fantastic, everyone goes around smiling all the time, it has fantastic beaches that you can pop to on the bus, mountains too. The whole country's so beautiful - the holidays and weekend trips would be brilliant.

schprooz · 24/01/2009 09:08

Yes, you can get a curry!! Probably more chinese food though - there's a big Asian influence (and Italian too)

Astrophe · 24/01/2009 09:47

Commute - really depends on where you live, as others have said. I grew up on the North shore, which is a lovely green area, good for families - expensive housing. If you were to live there, not super close to the harbour (very, very expensive housing), but say 15 minutes drive, your DH would be looking at a 30-50minute commute to the city at peak hour, depending on how far you live from a station. If you want to look on Domain.com, some suburb names, to get you started: Chatswood, Lindfield, Roseville, ...and then a bit further still by car (I suspect roughly the same commute time?) : Ryde (is aso cheaper), Epping.

Posh suburbs near the harbour (Mosman, Neutral Bay, Cremorne) are gorgeous, and you can commute quicky if you live close to the ferry...but, thy have no trains, and the bus service in Sydney is definately slower than trains (because of traffic mainly).

I hope that helps. Others on here will be able to help with suburbs in the Inner West and South sides - not my specialty.

Regarding your sons education - have I understood correctly that he is not yet at school? If thats the case, and there is no worry about disrupting his current schooling, then really I wouldn't worry. As I said, the schools here are, on the whole, excellent. The main differences are that the starting age is slighly later (a good thing imho), and that the schools seem, to me, to be less "pushy" ain key stage one than UK schools are - ie, they are a bit more play focussed (also a good thing imho). Some of the local primary schools close to the city can be pretty crowded - if there is a high enrollment they still have to take all the kids, and so put demountable clasrooms in the playgrounds...often reducing play space to a poor leve. Lots of other schools, particularly those slightly further from the city (in the suburbs I mentioned fr example) there are wonderfully spacious schools, with ovals, playgrounds, bush, loads of room to run, only 200 or 300 pupils and very good educational standards.

What do we do in the evenings? Well, my kids are 2 and 4 and I am pg with number 3...so at the moment we stay in and I feel sick! Normally, we mght have people over for dinner (seems to happen a lot more in Sydney than where I lived in the UK), go to a friend's house, have a BBQ...in summer, go for a walk to local park with the kids...if we have a night out it would usually be to go to friend's houses for dinner, or to the movies, meybe out to dinner at a restaurant (cheaper here than UK), theatre...same sort of stuff as in the UK really, but more socialising in people's homes I think.

A normal day for us - well, we just got back from the UK 8 weeks ago and are very much still setting up here...but here is what I think life will be like as of next week:

DD (4.5) goes to Kindy (nursery) 3 days a week (9-3pm...and not free by the way - it costs us roughly £20 per day to send her), so we will get up at about 7.30am, leave at 8.30 to walk to kindy. I would do things like housework (not much!), laundry, take DS (3) to toddler groups or meet up with friends and kids in a local park, maybe sometimes take DS to the zoo or aquarium. Thursdays - DD not at kindy and both kids have a swimming lesson at a pool about 15 minutes drive away (one of 5 local pools we could have chosen!). Then we stay at the pool and have a swim/splash, driv home, kids faff about in the garden or play with toys.

DH (currently job hunting) I expect will get home at about 7pm ish..hopefullly earlier sometimes. Have dinner, kids to bed...

TBH, it is the same as what we did in the UK, except we spend much more time outdoors here. Even in winter we will be able t take the kids to the park, ride bikes, go for walks, walk to nursery etc...of course it rains sometimes, and sometimes is unpleasatly cold (relatively speaking!), but on the whole, even winter is mild.

I hope that helps - I feel very self obsessed writing 'a day in the lif of astrophe' like that...but you did ask!

Skiing - you can ski here! I'm sure it othing compared to the Alps, but it is popular here, although the season is fairly limited. New Zealand has great skiing (so I'm told) and is only a short flight away.

DH's holidays - 4 weeks a year is the standard, although often companies close down between Christmas and New year, so it may be more like 5. Obviously depends on the company.

Re public transport and driving - unless you lived right in Sydney city, you will need a car. It is a very sprawling city - very spread out. If your DH can catch public transport to work, and if you choose to send you DS to a local school, you will probably get away with not using a car too much, but it is pretty unlikely you wil be able to get everywhere you need to go n public transport...or if you can, its likely to take you a long time changing busses etc.

Spoo · 24/01/2009 10:11

Thank you soo much everyone for all your help. Thank you for a day in the life of Astrophe!! Astrophe - where abouts do you live?? I have started surfing the property websites to see what you can get. I have been looking at the north shore properties first and will try some of those districts you recommend. I am less worried about the education front now, though I do worry that if we came back DS would be behind.

I need to go now as the boys are wrecking the house. I will write back more tonight.
thanks
xxxxx

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Spoo · 24/01/2009 20:25

Been doing a lot of thinking today. Obviously not going to make our decision that quickly but I have been swaying between 'why not' and thinking about what a great life we have at the moment. THe ONLY complaint is the weather but is that not just due to January blues??

I'm not sure we are brave enough to go as we are both so cautious.

Another question I wanted to ask. My DH is currently on around £40p.a. with me contributing about £12p.a. in addition. What sort of money should he be aiming for in Sydney - I know the exchange rate but taing into account the cost of living will we be better of worse off??

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Astrophe · 25/01/2009 07:35

We are on the North Shore now, but staying with parents, so I don't know where we will be long term. We love Lane Cove - thats where we'd love to be...but possibly unrealistic on our budget. More likely we will end up in Ryde - also trying to get DH to consider Inner West (Concord area)...but he is not so keen.

Income - well, I don't think you should expect to get the exchange rate - probably slightly less. So, if your DH gets an equivilent job in Sydney then he should probably have in mind $80K-£90K...whereas the exchange rate would normally mean closer to $100K.

On $80, you will be able to live comfortably, but certainly not lavishly. On the whole, life is a bit cheaper here than in the UK.

We have friends who took their (Aussie educated) 9, 10 and 12 year olds to England, and the kids were great - they all went into their respective classes near the top, got accepted into a very well regarded school, and one child actually moved up a grade (because of the different term dates, he could have gone into one of two grades, but went up, and did very well ever since). Honestly, I would not consider education as a con at all.

Spoo · 25/01/2009 20:24

Thank you Astrophe. I will let you know how we get on. DH has still to be offered a job and we still have to make this big decision. I think alot depends on what he is actaully offerred. I'll be in touch.

btw I love your photos your kids are really cute and I love your tractor cake - we have the same driver!!

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Astrophe · 25/01/2009 22:44

Thanks spoo The photos are a bit old, I should put some new ones up! The driver is from the ELC tractor...the driver was very heavily modelled on it!

Good luck with your deliberations

Spoo · 26/01/2009 13:54

I know the driver for the foresaid tractor. My DH being Cornish loves his 'We're off to the field!!'. Speak soon. Spoo
xx

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Bubbaluv · 26/01/2009 16:22

Spoo, just wanted to put your question re commuting into perspective. Sydney is geographicaly bigger than London, so it's a v difficult question for anyone to answer for you. It will hugely depend not only on where you chose to live, but where your DH's work is based. If he's in the CBD (equiv of London's "City") then his commute could be a 15 min walk if you live in darlinghurst or Kirribilli or it could be well over an hour's drive if you live out West. However, there are plenty of suburbs in all price brackets (certainly that you could afford) that will allow him to commute by train in well under an hour.
On the income suggested earlier I would suggest looking at Epping, Cheltenham and Beecroft. All about 40mins on train to CBD, lovely green and leafy - fantastic schools etc.
Otherwise the Inner West is great and a bit more cosmopolitan - maybe look at Glebe, Rozelle, Leichhardt etc. These are about a 20 min bus ride from CBD.

Spoo · 26/01/2009 17:23

Thank you Bubbaluv. I will have a look at these areas. I'm not even sure what budget I should aim for house rental wise. It all depends on the package that DH will get offered.

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Bubbaluv · 26/01/2009 19:26

Be aware that the prices your see quoted on Domain.com.au will be per week, not per month (if only!).
It's worth having a look in any case, at least you will get an idea of the kind of housing stock that is about, then when you have further details you might have more idea of which areas you want to investigate further to see what you get for your money.

What does your DH do?

Bubbaluv · 26/01/2009 19:30

BTW, you can always drive down to Thredbo etc for a bit of skiing. It can be a bit patchy, but last season was fab apparently. Otherwise, NZ is not too far away.

Megami · 26/01/2009 19:30

Having previously lived in Sydney, I 100% agree with Bubbaluv. My husband worked on Oxford Street (near the city centre) but we lived in Gymea and it was about a 40 minute drive each way.

Depends what your DH is planning on doing, but earning AU$80 is NOT an average wage - it is definitely above average! (My last job in Australia was earning a bit below that and I am an experienced professional in my field working at Executive Level in the public service).

Sydney can be great, but make sure you check out the details first.

Also, will his work fly you and your family home at regular intervals? Flights from Australia to the UK are not cheap (check out www.qantas.com.au and then figure out what those Australian prices + taxes would be as a percentage of your husband's after tax income if you are going to have to pay for these yourself.)

Megami · 26/01/2009 19:31

That was $80K per year, not $80 per hour. Sorry.

Astrophe · 26/01/2009 23:30

No, I agree that $80K is well above average wage. Look to give you an idea - last time we lived here (3 years ago), DH was earning about $55K a year. He is well education, professional, but young and new in the workplace - his 2nd job. We lived in Lane Cove (lovely, about 20 minutes drive/40 minutes train/bus to the city), in a nice, not posh, but spacious 2 bedroom flat with just DD back then. We ran a car. We ate well, had the odd night out with friends, could afford petrol for the looooong drives to see friends for holidays, but generally not accomodation (hence stayed with friends)! Most things we wanted - clothes, DVDs etc, we could have, maybe saved for couple of weeks. We don't have really expensive tastes, but not cheap either ifyswim.

I just tell you this to get an idea how people live on their incomes here. I really don't think its vastly different from the UK. DH is looking for work atm, and realisticly (we hope!) we might get $65-75K now. We hope that will allow us to live in a cheaper North Shore suburb (renting), in a reasonable, not fancy, house, with our 2 kids and bub on the way...pay for DD's nursery, run a car, and also save towards our deposit. I thinkk we will have to live more frugally than when we just had DD, but should still be able to affored treats and nights out if we are careful.

Once again...feeling salf absored now...but I hope that helps

Bubbaluv · 27/01/2009 12:01

Average wage in NSW is about $45k, but in Sydney is more like $60k I think.

Spoo · 27/01/2009 22:57

My DH is a Chartered Civil Engineer as I am. This is quite well qualified - the equiv of 7 years post grad training and realtively in demand so should hope for a fairly okay sum of money.

I think we should have about the same quality of living that we have here. DSs both in nursery. Two cars. Camping holidays rather than the Seychelles. Occasional night out when we are feeling flush. My earnings add to our luxury money.

Not sure exactly what is happening work wise. The guy who is interested in him (currently in Sydney) has said he'll see how an interview went today with the same company for a UK job. He was told today though that they had no vacancies in the UK and no mention of Sydney. So he has to get back in contact with the guy from Sydney to find out whats going on. Its all a bit mixed up really.

I did notice the rental amounts on Domain thanks Bubaluv. I bit of an anticlimax when I realised though!! Ha ha.

Thank you to everyone for such considered responses. I have had better advice here than from anyone in RL. THANKS!!
xxx

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Bubbaluv · 28/01/2009 09:23

Ah, now camping in Aus is WONDERFUL!