Life in Australia. A few questions

[Thunderduck]

I'm asking on behalf of my partner, who has gotten it into his head that we should move to Australia once we've both finished our degrees/PHDs.

I'll admit I'm not at all fond of the idea of moving so far from home. However I promised I'd ask a few questions on his behalf.

For anyone who moved to Australia. Did it live up to your expectations? Was culture shock an issue for you? And how long did it take to go through the process of being granted permission to move there?

LOL @ Manchester if it were nice.
You are not the first person to have said that ninedragons ...
Melbourne is greener now than it was when we arrived but it isn't as green as I would like. We've had some good rain the last couple of months so the parks are recovering somewhat but the drought is still severe and you can't water your lawns and you can only water your plants with either watering can or every other Tuesday at 6am or something like that.
Melbourne has clearer seasons than more northern Aussie cities - Spring and Autumn are lovely.
Auckland, NZ, is green as can be and to me, is a balm to my eyes when I go back. I kind of stare at the greenery to drink it in. A bit like the way I go around touching old buildings when I go back the UK. I'm a bit odd like that
Tassie is supposed to be beautiful but I haven't been there.
Whatever you do, make sure your DP KNOWS that you won't get the "Home and Away" lifestyle that a lot of Brits seem to think they will get and are then disappointed when they see it isn't really like that.
Of course, Home and Away type places do exist but not for normal working types who may need access to cities. Beach properties all over (Melbourne/Perth/Sydney in particular) are horrendously expensive. We lived 2 minutes from a beach in Auckland (not hard admittedly) but can't afford to be near the beach here ... but I don't mind as I like the city life that Melbourne has to offer. Wouldn't want to be near the city in Auckland to be honest with you.

Neither of us are beach fans, so we aren't worried about having a seafront home.

You're comment about touching old buildings in the UK is making me miss the UK and I haven't even left here yet.

I can't help thinking that NZ is so beautiful,and that we should seriously consider there instead. Though dp is pretty set on Oz.

I am a little worried about job prospects as dp has been offered a job by his phd sponsors and it seems so silly to throw the opportunity away.

Is Australia a relatively class free country?

DP seems to think it is, and that's partly why it appeals to him.

Thunderduck...
It seems that you are just at the 'what if' stage...look into all your options...and take it as a big adventure.
If you do settle on Australia...it's a massive country with various different climates...and even if you dont settle in the first place you fly to...then there is no stopping you moving around.
We have known many, many families who for one reason or another couldnt settle...some moved over east...some moved to Sydney...some to the country...to small isolated country towns........and....some as you say....feel the ties that bind with family too strong...and the pull of home makes them pack up and leave....and sometimes...they dont settle back in the uk either ...and return....these are affectionatly called...ping pong poms.
We always looked at the whole process as a big adventure...but did say...we need to give it at least 5 yrs...to settle the kids and put down roots.
The putting down roots is hard at times...and being without family, friends and familiarity isnt easy...sometimes extreemly difficult....but if your aware this will happen..that its very normal...then thats half the battle.
If you want to ask me anything about Perth...then please do.....I think Perth is very green....and was pleasantly surprised when we first landed....just how green it was...I had this vision of a desert...with blocks of houses...something similar to when Id lived in the middle east...but its nothing like that....there are tall trees...lush fields....I love it.

That's very useful advice israel ty. I'll take it into account.

We thought Perth might be a little isolated for our tastes but if it has everything we're looking for, it might be right for us.

How extreme is the heat there? I'm trying to avoid anywhere that's far too hot and humid. I don't do well under those conditions.

Also are there a lot of museums and theatres in Perth? Or at least a reasonable number.

Oh I loved Tasmania when I visited it 11 years ago - it was soo like little England, scenery-wise and weather-wise, except for the mountains! I went to Hobart - loved it, spectacular scenery around Mount Field, especially the Russell Falls; and also to Richmond, which was the bit most like rural England, except for the best-preserved convict prison.

I went there in May and the morning I left, there was frost on the car windscreen - temps v. similar to the UK, I believe.

tasmania whilst climate wise is probably similar to what you like is relatively isolated - up there with perth. I am an aussie who spent 4 years in the UK and came home with my english dh and dd1. He loves it - has absolutely no desire to return to live in the Uk at all.

We are in brisbane and love it. I am a brisbane girl although have lived in a few places around queensland. It is a lot hotter than sydney and Melbourne. UK friends said they loved Melbourne and would live there if they ever considered emigrating.

There is a large expat community about 5 minutes drive from us in Brisbane - a lot of english people living there.

I think you need to give yourself a few years. I reckon - when I moved to the UK - knowing absolutely noone - the first two years were tough. ( given that I also met and married and had dd1 might have contributed) BUT I think two years for the tinges of homesickness to abate although they never go.

I think it offers a lot of opportunity and a lifestyle and quality of life that we would never be able to have in the UK on one wage with three children.

btw - I have no banana trees in my garden - just mango, macadamia, avocado and natives. Dh copes okay with the heat and we do not have air conditioning.

I think what helped dh settle was that this was it - whilst I secretly agreed to myself that if it did not work out we would go back to the UK - however difficult it would be for us - dh saw it as a forever thing. This enabled him to get on with life and not look at the 2 years and we can go back thing.

dh came on a spousal visa and as we had only been married a short time but had dd1 - he was granted permanent residency automatically. Dd1 had aussie citizenship by descent.

I've just returned to Sydney after a few yers in the UK and I sort of feel like I am seeing Sydney through 'fresh' eyes. Its great, but not quite as I remembered. Here are my first impressions: (we've been here 3 weeks, having not been back for 3 years)

Everyone is so laid back. People wear shorts, T-shirts and thongs (flip flops!), often looking pretty shabby (lads and younger blokes especially) and relaxed. There is a kind of slow pace and "she'll be right mate" attitude that seems to permeate everything - I can't quite put my finger on it.

Disapointingly, things seem to look more shabby than I remember...there seem to be more houses needing a lick of paint, and more weeds growing out of cracks than I remember (although the same could be said of plently of places in he UK).

People are friendly and straight forward. If you ask a question, you get a straight up answer, quickly.

There are gum trees everywhere...I am constantly surprised by huge gumtrees growing up between two highrise building in the middle of the city - makes it look like Sydney is a city plonked down in the middle of the bush, with the bush growing up through the cracks. Its very green (and remember, it's always green, even in winter).

There are parks everywhere - nice bushland reserves, with nice childrens playgrounds, trees.

Its a big city -size wise, and the traffic is not great...and yet it feels more like a country town than Derby, where I was living in the UK (which has 1/40th the population), just in terms of the feel of it.

The weather is just gorgeous. It hasn't been too hot, just warm, sunny, with the occasional thunder storm in the afternoons.

I know you said you have no DC yet, but if kids are on the cards, I highly reccomend Sydney for raising kids. Its a great climate for kids, really healthy environment (as well as safe and clean), lots of parks, and lots fo fun cultura things for kids as well...baby proms at the opera house, ferry rides, good museums ad art galleries, as well as the beach of course.

I just loved the UK, and I miss it dearly now (looking back through rose coloured glasses of course!) but Sydney is where I want to raise my kids.

Hope that helps - if you have any specific questions feel free to ask. I'll watch this thread - or you can CAT me.
x
Astro

you asked about class - I wouldn't say its a classless society (does such a thing exist anywhere?), although I did definately 'feel' my middle class-ness more keenly in the UK than I do here.

This may be party due to the demography and size of Sydney - its a very sprawling city, and I guess I live in a 'middle class' area. To go to a 'working class' area I'd have to get i the car and drive there iYSWIM, whereas Derby - much smaller - people rubbed shoulders a bit more.

I don't know if that fully exlains it though. I do think there is less animosity between classes here, and that there is more social mobility. There is a kind of unspoken respect for the working classes here - a respect for the spirit of hard work and mucking in. I think most Australians like to lay claim to some working class/farming/hard working/pioneering heritage, as these things are highly valued in the Australian psyche (even by very middle class people who have never had any real connection with the bush or the working class!)

I'd love to hear what Brits in Australia think of this question though...

I've just come across this thread. About class; while it's not as readily identifiable as in the UK, I know of people who've been asked which school they send their kids to and had backs turned as a consequence - literally. More people educate their children privately here, and for some reason it seems to make some of them more sniffy - maybe because they shell out loads of dosh for not very much more.

The label of the "Aussie battler" in the media or "bogans" tells a clear story of class difference; one approving, the other sneering.

On another point, ghosty referred to seeing a move as permanent as more helpful way of framing one's reactions to Australia - I can I identify with this.

I'd like to add a few comments about class in Australia, as it is something I find really interesting.

Australia isn't classless as such, but there is a huge middle class - or I should say, a large portion of society identify themselves as middle class. There is a working class (of course, what capitalist society can operate without one?) but the 'upper class' is really hard to identify. I read somewhere that if there is an upper class here, then it is limited to a thin layer of extremely wealthy socialites, high court judges, entrepreuners (sp?) etc - thinK Rupert Murdoch.

But this is something that my English DH and I can't quite see eye to eye on. I am text book middle class (even by UK standards) - educated, private school, parents quite well off. He is perhaps lower-middle class. Berkshire - left school after O levels, has a trade, never knew anyone who went to uni. I explain to him that we are middle class here- that we are bringing up our children as middle class (we just are, there is no denying it) and it truly rankles with him. He has some (negative) idea of a the middle class that i don't really understand.

Its one of the few times where I feel our cultures clashing on some kind of innate level.

Hi there

Thunderstruck, I'm in Adelaide, and mostly love it. It's a much smaller city than Briz, Sydney or Melb (not sure about Perth) which has both advantages and disadvantages. The standard cliche is that Adelaide (although a city of a over 1 million people) is really just a large country town. The climate here is pretty fab, think southern Italy or Greece, long hot, dry summers, beautiful warm autumn and spring and short wet, cold winters. There is very low humidity here, so if humidity freaks you out maybe avoid Briz or even Sydney. Adelaide is pretty green, heaps of parklands and trees, although I did find getting used to the gum trees a bit strange. I thought they permanently looked a bit bedraggled and thirsty compared with lush european deciduous trees. Got used to 'em now.

The class issue is quite interesting here, rather than a lot of class envy a la UK there does appear to be much more respect given to the 'Aussie Battler' (ie person struggling on a low wage) as long as you are in work, it doesn't seem to matter to anyone that you may be low paid or "lower class" (ugh horrid phrase) it's the 'bludgers' (doley freeloaders) that get a hard time. The majority of people here are middle class; as anywhere, some are wankers (ooh I earn $$$$s and have acres) and some are v. nice.

I think Australia is a great place, but I think you need to give it a minimum of 2 years to feel in anyway settled. It seems like you don't want to leave Scotland AT ALL - which to be honest isn't a good starting point for emigrating. Make sure your dp understands that although great in many ways, Australia isn't in any way a paradise where all problems go away, just because the sun shines it doesn't mean that life can't be quite hard. For instance I find my dh just as irritating in sunny weather as in the drizzle.

Thunderduck (sorry wasn't reading your name right last time) your other concern seems to be cultural ie can you get to a concert/gig/play in the cultural wilderness that is Australia?

I think that there is a huge out-dated misconception in the UK about the lack of Aussie culture. Maybe this was a reality back in the 60's and 70's (I dunno really) but it certainly isn't the case now. Admittedly the telly is utterly shite so don't expect witty cutting edge telly. But if you're into theatre, galleries etc then if you head for one of the big cities - particularly Melb or Syd then they do have some world class performances/exhibitions. Admittedly it's not like popping into the National or Tate but it's really not bad at all.

If you love Scotland and can't stand the heat, Brisbane would not be for you I am afraid (and yes, I have lived in Brisbane). Sydney and Melbourne have more temperate climates, but can both be ridiculously hot in Summer (I have lived in Sydney and worked in Melbourne).
Oh, and falconry is illegal in Australia to all but a few people with registration

Australia is a fantastic place, but reading your description of you DH/OH I honestly think he is going to be very disillusioned, very fast. The grass is not necessarily greener. Would he consider a working holiday at the very least (I don't think you really know what it is like to live in Australia based purely on a holiday, you have to live and work there, IYKWIM).

Um, right now Melbourne is suffering in a heatwave not seen for 100 years. We have had three days of 40+ degrees (today it hit 45.1 in the city) and it is shocking and unbearable (if you don't have aircon and we don't ). Everything is brown and dry as a tinder box and we are on a Total Fire Ban even in the 'burbs. Forest fires are raging East of the city.
I'd move to NZ if I were you.
Sigh.

Adelaide at the moment is hitting 45o & is brown & dry!

But it won't be this hot for long [at least I keep telling myself that]

ghosty I feel for you with the current temps. I am in Brisbane and is has been lovely all week. But you said it all "Melbourne is suffering in a heatwave not seen for 100 years" so a reasonable chance you won't see weather like this again or Thunderduck if she moved here.

The telly is each person's own personal preference and what you are used to. I thought the shows in the UK were shite. You can get a lot of UK shows on Foxtel albeit two years behind .

I think you both have to be certain that you want to live here. I have a friend who moved here from the UK with her dh and dd in 2004 with a plan to give it 2 years and see how they liked it. He loved it straight away and she struggled with it. Their minds were made up from the start. Fast forward two years and she went back with her dd and he stayed here. She has been back in the UK 2 1/2 years now. It was a very sad situation as they had been married for 18 years!!

Ninedragons - Melbourne being a nice Manchester is exactly what I said to dh when we went.

Ghosty - I don't know how you survive over 40 with no aircon. I put the heat pump to cool when it gets to 30 here.

If you like Scotland then some of the NZ scenery (and certainly more the climate) would be more your thing. People are very outdoorsey here.

Seems to me (having been to Australia loads of times, contemplated deeply the same question as you, and had the same reservations as you):

That your ONLY choices are Melbourne or Sydney. The humidity rules out Brisbane, and it sounds like you need your culture, so you HAVE to choose one of the two cultural capitals. End of story.

And then BECOME one of those people who participate fully in the theatre/concert scene there (because there are always reasons not to bother -- time, money etc.)

Having to decide ONLY between two places will help you get a much clearer idea of whether you can manage this.

I know people from Adelaide or Brisbane will come on and say 'we have xyz examples of culture'. No they don't. You need volume of events, from which to choose.

Buy several guide books to Sydney, and several guide books to Melbourne, and study them deeply.

I'm moving back to Brisbane, after 15 years away, and PadDad, I have to agree with you 1000%.

There IS no "culture" in Brisbane. End Of Story.

And just the thought of the humidity sends me into a shudder.

If it weren't for our family there, there is no way in the world I would even consider living there.

(I have lived in London for 10 years, when you're tired of London, you're tired of life....)

I've just read all of the thread linked to on here, and I think I need to improve my attitude if we have any hope of having a "successful" return to Oz.

The main reason we are going back to is get better therapy for our son. We feel that the therapy we have got here, even paying for it, you cannot rely on the NHS for more than once a month or every two months, is simply not good enough.

So we are going back for a SALT.

I was born in Brisbane, and lived there till I was 21. After finishing uni I couldn't wait to leave, I moved to Canberra because I wanted to be in the thick of things and work for the govt. I stayed there two years. Then we moved to Bunbury, south of Perth, and hated it (very small townish, if you weren't born and bred there the locals weren't intresed, it was so far from the eastern states, and our best friends were South African and Kiwi...).

Then we moved to London, and have been here more than 10 years.

I LOVE it. I love the history, I love the culture, I love the fact you can just jump across to another country for the weekend. I love that when we go out to dinner, there will be people from as many different countries as there are people at the dinner table. I love the countryside. I love Channel 4, I love the summer sporting events (and I did even make it a Wimbledon final - the Rafter one back in 2001), I love the typically English things, like the Tube, the red buses, the red postboxes and telephone boxes. I can go on and on but I am not going to, I am sure you get the picture...we live opposite Greenwich, we can ride horses at the local City Farm, and DS1's school playground is on a pontoon on a dock...

My DH is Australian, our two DSs have dual citizenship.

I am not a huge outdoor person, I am dreading having to put sunblock on every single time we go out the door, the accent annoys me!!!!!, I hate how trashy and tabloidy the newspaper is (yes the one in Brisbane..), and the TV news (SBS aside of course). I hate how parochial a fair proportion of Aussies are. I hate how you can generally only buy Australian wine at the bottleshop, I hate the fact you even have bottleshops, why not just sell alcohol in the supermarket!! I hate the heat and humidity of Brisbane.

I also hold Irish citizenship, but at times I feel more "British" than Australian....

For those who have lived overseas for a long time, how did you succcessfully re-integrate yourself?

i hope you get the salt you are looking for cause it is thin on the ground unless you want to pay for it.

I am in Brissy and I love it - culture is there - actually more than you probably realise. Dh and I are off to see a well known comedian in a couple of weeks. We have attended musicals, plays, comedy acts, taking the dds to orchestra concert for kids in the school holidays. Great cultural programs for children. Wealth of great writing and art also here.

I love Brisbane and can't imagine living anywhere else - including the UK - where I spent 4 years - met my fab dh and had dd1 - so great memories. I have also spent a very short time living in the US.

Within a half an hour at most we can be at a beach, a great park or at a wonderful natural reserve or we can be cruising the Brisbane River, art gallery, museum, state library etc.

The quality of life my dds have is far better than anything we could have had in the UK.

If you hate the humidity and you think Brisbane is a vast cultural desert then you need to seriously consider not returning here. If you have not been here in a very long time then you have no real perception of what it is like to live in Brisbane.

When we arrived back - my dd1 who has sn and needed regular SALT, PT and OT had it for such a short time. We are now paying for SALT and OT - we just cannot afford to pay for physio and there really are not any children's physio's near us. IT is not on tap and in fact there is a shortage especially of SALTs. You may find a move somewhere else in the UK is better than trying to move to Brisbane to access SALT.

Sorry mm22bys but I think you need a major attitude adjustment if you are to have any success living in Brisbane.