Calling anyone whose made the move (particularly to NZ) - hand holding needed!

[2toddlersandme]

I've just accepted a job in Auckland and the initial 'yay' feeling is being replaced by a pervasive anxiety. We're over in NZ at the moment and are having a great time, but I'm still panicking about whether it's the right decision or not (I know - a bit too late for that!). I'm really close to my family, I know no-one in Auckland, DH doesn't have a job yet & I have 2 year old twins. Am I insane? It just felt it was one of those 'now or never' things and we made the decision rationalising that the worst that could happen is that we'd not like it and want to go back home. But that seemed better than wondering what if and living in the same city for ever. (And it's a great job). So our plan is to come for 3-4 years (the minimum I could do this job for and it be worthwhile really) and then return to the UK. I've told my family and they have been really supportive (and my parents have just been to see us and will be able to come out every year). But I still feel sick... Any words of reassurance?

(And Sibble if you read this- thank you so much for replying to my original post in the Summer - all really helpful info in making our decision. I may come back to ask for info if that's OK as I know nothing about Auckland (aaaghh - I am crazy). And I agree Christmas in NZ is somewhat underwhelming!)

Hi 2toddlersandme. I'm in Auckland too and have just returned from afternoon at the beach. Can't answer your post at mo as am giving dd tea then a bath but I'll be back later to hopefully answer your questions.

I think Sibble and I are only posters in the Auckland area (could be some lurking tho) but there are several other MNers mainly in Wellington and Christchurch who may be along soon.

Thanks v.v. much for replying WhatSheSaid. We went to the beach too (although are in Christchurch for a few weeks so our paths wouldn't have crossed - it was a bit windy here to venture in the sea though). I think my main worries are - making new friends - managing being so far away - and DH job prospects/money/childcare/managing move etc. (so nothing major then!). Any thoughts would be really gratefully received. How old is your dd? (I'm feeling slightly better having reminded myself that nice wine is definitely on the plus list .

Dd is 13 months. I moved here 7 years ago on my own (actually just came for a year's working holiday and ended up staying). Met dh here (he is English too). I had a good few years of being here before having dd so I had plenty of time to go out socialising, met people through work etc.

Plus points, it is a lovely country and has lots to offer. Of course, it is not a paradise and has crime, poverty etc like anywhere. But on a day like this, when I just wandered across the road and down a path to the beach where dd paddled in the sea, I can see all the good stuff.

I actually wasn't really homesick till I had dd and I have found it hard being away from family since she was born, sorry, I'm not much help there!

I think it's a good idea to think, well you can go back in 3-4 years, there is always that option. And if/when you do go back, you can look back in years to come and know you gave it a go and weren't always wondering what if. It's great your family are so supportive and will visit.

OK your worries:

Making new friends - Kiwis are generally v friendly though I know people in some bits of Auckland have found it hard to break into established "groups". I found it a bit hard after dd was born but mainly because none of my friends have had kids yet so are all still doing the going out every weekend thing. I have met some lovely new people now through playgroups, music groups etc. Do you know whereabouts in Auckland you'll be livign?

Managing being so far away - it can be tough but I haven't known any different really. Do you have a lot of family support in UK with the dcs? For keeping in touch Skype is great as it really makes a difference seeign people on the screen as well as hearing them.

DH job - what work does he do? Unemployment is pretty low in NZ and, so far, the recession doesn't seemed to have kicked in too much.

I worked for 6 years in a childcare centre so can answer questions about that if you want.

I assume you have checked out www.trademe.co.nz and www.realestate.co.nz/ for property and www.seek.co.nz/ for jobs.

Hm, can'[t think what else to put at mo. Auckland has a lot of lovely bits, it can seem like a bit of a sprawl but there are fab bits around and nearby, the Waitakere ranges (near me!) the West Coast beaches, North Shore beaches, Clevedon, Kawakawa Bay, Whitford and surrounding countryside, the harbour on a lovely sunny day, Waiheke island, all the islands really - I could waffle on but you get the picture! Sometimes you have to drive aorund a bit to find the lovely bits is what I'm getting at!

How wonderful to be offered a job. Well done.

We moved 10 years ago with neither having a job (no children though so easier).

I made friends at my workplace and then a new set once I had ds. If you join the multiple birth association/group in your area you will make heaps of friends, and whilst you probably don't require that all your friends have twins it's a good place to start.

We did the the burn the boat thing. Moving over we really needed that money from the sale of our house to buy one here. We have no intention of going back but i can't imagine we would be in a good position if we did. We would have well and truly fallen off the property ladder.

I am in ChCh by the way and so is MrsJohnCusack who may be along later if her dd's birthday party didn't completely finish her off.

Thanks so much both of you for taking the time to reply.

It's interesting what you said WhatSheSaid (?!) about missing your family when you had your baby. I felt the same (in the UK) and even though they were obviously more accessible I still felt a bit isolated. My parents both still work and live about 3 hours away from us and 2 siblings living in London (not near us) and a sister living in Beijing. So, in answer to your question I dont get that much 'help', but they can (usually) come over if we have a crisis and I go there pretty regularly. My sister (whose got a baby a similar age to your DS) is pretty upset and that makes me feel bad because I know she's feeling isolated as well.

I have no idea where we'll be living. I'll be working at the University in Grafton and we want to be near a beach, but not too far away from work as we'll both be working full time (fingers crossed re. DH - he's an economic development consultant and, no, I'm not entirely sure what that is either and whether they have them in NZ!). We've been looking at rentals in Kohirama (sp), Mission bay, St Heliers....They seem like nice areas (?).

My twins will be 3 1/2 when we come. What are the childcare options? At the moment they go to nursery part time (we both work p/t, but couldn't do that in NZ). I know school starting age is later and that's quite appealing as they have an August birthday so would be starting school at just 4 in the UK which seems really young. And I know they have free childcare hours in NZ like in the UK. How does that work exactly?

twentypence - you're completely right - having twins does help meet people bizarrely. We stayed in Devonport while I was being interviewed and I was asked to join the Devonport twins club! And actually it is how I made quite a few of my friends back home (always freaked cafe owners out when we ventured forth as a group!). (But I will be working full time so won't be able to do baby group type activities I don't think).

Re. selling our house - because of the situation in the UK we don't even have the option. It's been on the market for 6 months and nothing...so we'll keep it and rent it and rent here.

But to cheer us all up, it's freezing cold in the UK and the papers are full of recession doom and gloom.

Hi 2toddlersandme. Glad you are taking the plunge.

Kohimarama, St Heliers, Mission Bay all lovely areas with, most unusual for Auckland, great public transport links into town if needed. Great social life of a weekend. We looked out there but wanted more land so we're out between Whitford and Clevedon.

Ds2 is an August baby too. Here they usually start school on their 5th birthday, whenever that falls during the school year. The legal requirement though is to start by 6. Free 20 hours day care starts from 3 {I think}, so you will be eligible. It does make a huge difference. I personally have found childcare here so much better than in the UK. I think the Uni has childcare although not on all campus'. I work (and I use that term lightly as I contract so dabble more than work at the moment at the Tamaki Campus, we don't have child care there.

ANyway, any specifics fire away.

Yes, I was just coming on to say Kohi, St Heliers and Mission Bay all lovely, and near beach.

20 hrs free childcare does start at 3 and basically the childcare just deducts 20 hours off the fees, which the govt makes up. I think quite a few childminders now do the 20 free hours thing too, especially if they're registered with an organisation like Porse

Thanks guys. I'm feeling a bit more excited and a bit less freaked out this morning and now at least I (virtually) know 2 people in Auckland!

Glad you think those areas look nice and pleased about the public transport as would be nice to only need one car. I googled where you live Sibble and it looks beautiful.

Good thinking about university childcare Sibble (are you enjoying your 'dabbling'? . How old are your children?).

And thanks for the link Whatshesaid. I'll explore further.

Can I ask a question about money if it's not too cheeky?! I know from reading your previous posts (and actually being here at the moment) that the cost of living is higher than we anticipated. What's considered a 'good' salary (or joint income I guess) in NZ. And how much is childcare? Are bills higher/lower/the same as UK? How much is health insurance (and do you need it?) I'm finding it hard to get a handle on whether we're going to feel better or worse off than in the UK. (And what salary we could expect DH to be looking at).

Sorry - I know too many questions. I promise by this time next year I'll confine myself to moaning about the lack of NZ festive spirit!

Thank you.

The cost of living thing is quite tricky for me to work out as I've been here 7 years now.

Dh says nobody moves to NZ to get rich. Wages are certainly lower and the ratio of wages to house prices (for example) is pretty high. Auckland is the most expensive part of the country.

Some things are more expensive e.g. books - maybe because of less competition. Even quite basic, nothing-speciaL furniture can be quite expensive, hence there being a roaring trade in people selling second hand stuff on TradeMe. There are definitely fewer "price wars", like supermarkets have in UK.

But then things like petrol are cheaper and there are many outdoors (cheap or free) things to do. We had a plumber round fixing our toilet for two hours and he charged NZD 40 which seemed incredibly cheap. So it's hard to work out. I think the cost of living is not really any cheaper here at the end of the day.

We don't havce health insurtance but many do, I think it's fairly reasonably priced.

The childcare centre I worked at was 300 dollars/wk for full time place for 1 week for under-2, less for over-2 (and even less with 20 freehours). That was upper end of childcare cost as it was in one of the more affluent areas of Akld and they charged accordingly.

Not sure about bills in uk now. Our elec bill averages 150-200 a month (no gas so that's all heating/hot water/cooking etc), if that helps.

Has anyone warned you about the cooooold houses in winter?

Hi

My ds's are 4 and 8. I'm having a great time dabbling. I decided earlier this year to take a year off before ds2 starts school but the odd contract is hard to turn down. I've just done 2 weeks part time which is great just before Christmas. I also get flown to Wellington, put up in a hotel etc so get to catch up with a girlfriend free .

Cost of living. A hard one as it's partly what your expectations are and what you're used to. As an example our electricity bill is anything up to $450 (I'd say at the upper end of normal and I turn everything off at the mains . No gas or water bills as we are on tank water and bottle gas. After the 20 free hours I pay $42/week 3 days 8.30 - 3.30 for ds2, very cheap. Schools are technically free but you are asked for a donation (this is very variable depending on school and location). You can opt for private but we?ve found primary education so good we havn?t bothered. Ds?s classes are max 21 per class with teacher and teacher?s aid. I budget $500/week for food/wine (again at the upper end of normal I'd say but I always seem to have a house full of other kids who eat me out of house and home). This is probably also balanced by the fact we rarely eat out, we used to eat out a few times a week in the UK, here we tend to have people over so the boys are involved. Sky basic package $65/month. Petrol $1.40/litre (today but price changes as you blink!). What else ???? mortgage rates dropping but are about 6% still a lot higher than the UK, ours is fixed at 8.2% with the floating rate about 9%.

IMO I would find it very hard to survive here, especially with rent in Kohi areas on less than $100k. I did find I spent money differently, hardly any new clothes unless you work in fashion nobody gives 2 hoots (I?ve just bought a new pair of going out shoes ? first pair in 6 years, in the UK I bought at least one new pair every season at least 10 pairs/year probably!!!) A lot of the things we do as a family are free or very cheap.

HTH

oh health insurance, we are all covered with Southern Cross. I think you can probably get a quote on-line. Ours is about $155/month. I wouldn't be without it as my experience is the health service has the same long waiting lists here as in the UK.

Our health insurance is $85 per fortnight for 3 of us, covers all GP visits, prescriptions, operations. Dh's work contribute a set amount a year towards this. Getting a work plan if you can is the way to go, pre-existing conditions are then covered straight away (you normally have to wait 2-3 years)

We don't earn $100K per year, but we did sell our house in the UK and put that money into a house here so our mortgage is very tiny.

Our electric bill is $300 per month in the middle of winter. I am that Auckland prices are so much more. Water is in our rates and Gas costs around $60.

I spend around $250 a week on food (incl. shampoo) for the 3 of us, and two of us are on special diets. If you try and replicate a trip to Waitrose here you would spend a lot more than that. I shop locally and seasonally.

Thanks very much. We're certainly not doing it for the money, but don't want to be scrimping and saving as finally have some money after long maternity leave, working p/t etc. Sounds like we should be OK, especially when DH is earning. Thanks for some figures as it's really hard to know where to start.

Childcare sounds good - definitely cheaper than the UK (for them both to be full time in nursery in the UK would be about £1.5K per month I think - not really worth working). And it's good you think it's high quality.

Are the class sizes typically that small Sibble? That certainly sounds more appealing. Is there an equivalent of Ofsted to look at what schools are like? (I've heard of the declies but that seems more about the area, which obviously some correlation). Either of you know anything about schools in the Kohi area?

And thanks for the advice re. health insurance. I'll see if I get any special deals through work.

Being put up in a (child free) hotel sounds lovely .

And Whatshesaid - I have been warned about the cold houses, but given no advice as to how to spot the ones that may be a bit less cold. Will we need heat pumps/wood burner? Or do you just dress head to toe in merino and possum thermals?!

Thanks twentypence - good advice re. insurance. Great you could reduce your mortgage that far. At home the temptation just seems to be to keep adding to it - must be lovely not to have it hanging round your neck.

How much are rates? Did I read somewhere that you don't pay them if you're renting? (but doesn't sound q. right).

Are there options to buy much outside of supermarkets - farmers markets, direct from farms etc. We'd started doing that a bit at home to try and cut costs when prices started shooting up earlier in the year.

Hi

ERO is the Ofsted equivalent. I had a conversation with ds's head only last week. Apparantly there are no regulations on school class sizes but she limits hers. The school about 1 minute drive further in the opposite direction has 28 per class. I spoke with somebody at the weekend, a teacher, here from the UK who was teaching 30, on par with the UK. Shop around.

I shop at our local, Clevedon, farmers market every Sunday. They do exist and are growing in popularity but still not everywhere here in Auckland anyway.

Re. houses, you definately need at least one wood burner. Don't be fooled Aucklanders will tell you 'we don't get frosts, it doesn't get cold, you have to go south for that........' You will turn blue anytime after May/June trust me. Old style villas which look georgous are the worst. We rented one in Mount Eden when we first arrived - looked great - we were blue unless the sun shone and it was September. Woodburners, layering and blankets watching the TV or playing games is the only way to go .

ds1's ERO report out of interest - or maybe not we are very happy

www.ero.govt.nz/ero/reppub.nsf/webadvancedsearchform?OpenForm&Seq=1

Thanks Sibble. That's really helpful advice about the heating. Will definitely look for somewhere with a wood burner. And thanks also for the ero links - didn't go through to your ds's school though (is it Cleveland?). And it definitely is of interest. (Where is Cleveland? - sorry for the ignorance).

Loving the Christmas smilies although feeling v unchristmassy. Guess I'll have to get used to that.

Forgot to say your advice on fashion in NZ made me smile - can you actually buy nice clothes here? Everything I've seen so far has been either very 'different' or incredibly expensive. I'm not super stylish I hasten to add, but like clothes from Monsoon, White Stuff, Kew - can't find anything comparable.

I'm sure all the schools around Kohi/Mission Bay etc will be great - they are very good areas. You can check ERO reports online at www.ero.govt.nz.

Our rates are 460 a quarter but if you rent the landlord pays them, so part of it prob gets factored into the rent.

Generally the older, wooden villa-type houses are the coldest, often being uninsulated and without heating. House with woodburner or heat pumps is good (we have neither but get by). Newer houses, though not always as pretty as the old ones, are usually a bit warmer. Auckland winters are relatively mild but obviously no central heating makes for some chilly nights. Most people get by with plug in elctric heaters - the oil filled radiator ones are cheapest to run once they have heated up.

We put roof insulation in our house and the temperature went up 4 degrees overnight - but from 8 degrees to 12 (at 7am), so still not toasty! Even on winter days it can warm up to 15/16 degrees outside during the day so at least it doesn't stay cold all day.

North-facing properties get most sun here, not south-facing.

I have seen a year 3 class at a decile 10 school with 34 children (in a classroom designed for 25). Yes, the head will argue that because of specialist teachers the child to staff ratio is better. But the fact is that 1 teacher has 34 pupils at one time. It makes no difference to the kids that for some hours of the week it's a specialist sport or music teacher.

The thing is that schools have to take you if you live in the area, and so the popular schools are becoming a sea of portacabin classrooms whilst the brick school down the road has no takers.

All new entrant classes can only have 18 by law now.

As to be expxpted the first time I get a link to work, I put the wrong link in . Here's another go, if all else fails it's Brookby Primary.

www.ero.govt.nz/ERO/reppub.nsf/Institution/800CF7B6870AB11DCC2571E100169589/${File}/1236.htm?OpenEleme nt

Clevedon is the other school about a minute further in the other direction. Both are as good as each other, in fact all the local schools have good reputations. Clevedon has much larger grounds, swimming pool and about 300 pupils but class sizes in the late 20's. Brookby much smaller grounds, no pool but 105 pupils and class sizes used to be under 20. The roll is full and capped at 21 with the hope a few will move and leave during next year. It is also known in the area for it's IT excellence and resources.

TBH the class sizes meant more to me than pool and grounds when choosing.

W're about 40 mins south of Auckland. Dh works in town but unless he has a meeting late afternoon commutes off peak. I wouldn't live this far out if either of us had to travel during rush hour. Not quite the M25 but still alot more traffic than when we moved here 6 years ago with no public transport as an option.

Re. fashion. I hate to admit it but I tend to buy clothes when I come back to the UK. I have bought the odd item here but find that it's either cheap cr*p or very expensive, especially if you want something a bit different. There's a huge gap in the market for good quality but mid-range priced clothes.

I prefer the clothes here - they are long enough in the leg and wide enough in the shoulders. I also find them more modest. Higher necklines etc.

I never got on with NEXT or Monsoon.

Thanks everyone. All great information.

I've used the ero link to look at schools in Kohi area. Is there any way I can check their policy on class size or will I just have to visit? And it looks as though you enrol your children 12 months before they actually start? Have I got the right end of the stick? (And your ds's school looks lovely Sibble, but I think with us both working probably in central Auckland will be too far out. And you could probably do without a mumsnet stalker moving in next door!!).

I'll time it right to buy some clothes in the UK Summer sales I think (need a bit of a wardrobe update as job is more high powered and I know NZ is relaxed but I'm used to mainly wearing jeans!). But the sizing thing is interesting - at least I'll be able to fit into things (am tall) - have had funny shopping experiences in Singapore, Japan and China being pointed in the direction of menswear!

You can turn up with your child on their 5th birthday if you live in the zone - but most schools like to know as soon as possible for planning teachers and classrooms.

All new entrant classes will be 18 (lowering to 15 soon) and no more than 20 in the first so many years (am a bit vague on this) so if you have 2 year olds and are planning to go back to the UK after 4 years then a school policy on class size isn't a biggie.

You have loads of time to move into the area you want them to go to school in, especially if you are renting.

Thanks twentypence. V. helpful. I didn't know intake in the first few years was capped so low. That's great news. And do schools tend to have one class per year? (Haven't q decided about whether my twins would be better off together or apart and actually for a couple of years probably doesn't matter too much, but just interested).

Sounds like you are happy and settled here?

My friend's twins are in a school with around 500 pupils and there were 4 sets of twins started this year! that's practically half a class right there.

When were they born? (this can affect class size).