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Neue Stifte, neues Maeppchen: new German school thread

749 replies

finknottle · 18/09/2008 11:47

Am starting in positive manner as we're 7 weeks into the new school year and all 3 of mine are settled and happy.
Well, d won't be if she does have head lice and has to stay off because she loves school so much.
S1 is in the second year of secondary & still thriving. Is class prefect for the first time which was a great ego boost.
S2 is in Y4 & has been doing better in class but his test results are still lousy (unfortunate choice of phrase if we are lice-ridden) and his teacher is convinced it's the language issue. He's trying harder which is a good sign. He lost the prefect election by 1 vote to his best friend and was chuffed to bits to be his "deputy" and that so many voted for him.

Had forgotten how wonderful the "erste Klasse" is.

OP posts:
taipo · 03/12/2008 13:30

Sorry to hear about your dd, Nighbynight. Why do they want to stop dc moving from Haupt to Realscule at end of Y5? Actually I could probably answer that myself, having now had two years of experience of dc being at schools here and recently entered the system from the other side (as an English teacher) - they don't want to give any sort of encouragement or hope to any pupils who struggle with the system for whatever reason.

I would guess, admylin, that's also the reason for your ds getting lower marks. I wouldn't be surprised if other parents said the same thing. I gave my students their first Klausur recently and when I marked them I was quite generous with the grades - lots of 1 and 2s. However, when I checked these with another teacher she said, "Oh no, they need to be a lot lower." She said she gave her students at best an average of 3.

In reply to your question about ds - he has no problem with the work. In fact it's too easy for him which is why the teacher suggested putting him up a year last time I spoke to her. Trouble is that socially he is no way up the 2. Klasse so I'm very reluctant to consider that atm but the teacher doesn't seem to want to give him other stuff to do so he gets bored and fidgety and starts disrupting the class. I'm not trying to excuse his behaviour but I can understand why he is frustrated and not very happy atm . It's why I really want to try to help him now before he loses all interest in school and starts to drop back.

taipo · 03/12/2008 13:32

Deb, well done to your ds.
At least there is occasionally some good news on the thread of doom

DreamingOfMincePiesInAustria · 03/12/2008 13:49

Thanks Taipo - good news today - the whole school goes swimming tomorrow so a day without homework
Bad news - on the last day of term (my 40th also) there is a Christmas party/fair at school but ONLY for school pupils and teachers At Christmas I really miss UK Primary schools

Nighbynight · 03/12/2008 20:56

admylin - dd improved in the diktats when she started reading more in German.
ds2 is having lese training (at a teeth-clenching 21 euros / hour), which is given by qualified german teachers, and they are doing a course tailored to help children who are behind with reading or deutsch. Basically, they assess where your child REALLY is, and start from there. ds loves it.

Our last few years in the UK were really depressing, and as a single mother with 4 children, I really cant see it being any better if we go back. Unfortunately, my work is fairly specific and mostly located in the south east, so we cant actually afford to live anywhere nice. Our last house was in Slough, and we'd be looking at an ex council flat in Basingstoke, or similar if we went back. ( Hope that doesnt annoy any residents of these towns, but I hated berkshire.) It was filthy and we walked to the grotty shops (including a bookies and a sex shop) past a brownfield site where people used to dump rubbish, dog poo and neglected houses.
The contrast with where we live now is so huge it is just off the scale. We live in a clean, pretty, middle class town, where the children can walk to the town centre (spotting the fish in the river and the woodpeckers on the way) and to school by themselves, our house is bigger, we have a garage and double glazing and all sorts of things that make life easier and more pleasant. Our town centre has a bookshop, a library, a toyshop that sells real toys not just star wars/barbie crap, an independent cinema, you can park everywhere for free if you need to, ....etc
We were (and would be) so poor in the uk, because all money went on childcare, that we couldnt afford to drive to national parks. Anyway, who wants to sit in the car for hours at the weekend. And even when you get there it simply isnt as nice as the Alps. Most good things are private, you cant just wander all over the place like you can here.
The only thing I miss is the sea.
We would have to manage to live next to a good school in the uk to get the benefits of moving back, and that wouldnt be easy. I read the bbc and mumsnet, and frankly I just shudder at moving back most of the time. (and thats not even reading that fount of doom and gloom, the Guardian!)
If it was an easy decision to go back, we would have already gone. Clearly we must do something though, cannot leave the children in this situation.

It doesnt surprise me to hear about children going from the hauptschule to the top stream in the uk. Germany is wasting an awful lot of intelligent children in those bloody hauptschule. dd will go to a good university one day, she is very bright.

I am applying for a job in Switzerland atm(out of frying pan into fire?).

finknottle · 04/12/2008 07:39

Rheinland-Pfalz is much better & improving all the time. New regulations for more child-oriented primary, fewer Klassenarbeiten (in fact they are not even called that any more), fewer Noten and more verbale Beurteilungen, more Gesamtschulen opening every year.

Head of GS I want to send s2 to for Y5 told me the Differenzierung goes down to work-sheet level, i.e. some pupils will do all 10 questions, some only have to do 6, others 3. Ditto dictation, some all, some half and some an Abschreibdiktat. Focus on everyone's good at s/thing, try & instill sense of helping each other so no stigma of Förderunterricht.
Plus you have all 3 school types in one.
Plus the people are friendlier.
Plus we have great wine.

OP posts:
Nighbynight · 04/12/2008 08:10

thank you for info - that sounds good, I agree. Didnt somebody say though, that Rhineland Pfalz had recently removed the right of parents to choose which 2ndry school their children go to, in favour of the noten system?
Or was that NRW?
Anyway, a Gesamtschule would solve that!

I could find work in NRW, but dont think I have ever seen anything advertised in RP (telekom).

finknottle · 04/12/2008 08:19

No, parents still choose here.
Big cities: Mainz, Ludwigshafen, Koblenz, Worms, Trier. If you do want to say here (and much of what you wrote rang bells with me) may be worth scouting around.

Having seen the effect of the old primary system on my boys & the difference a Gesamtschule style has made to s1's self-esteem not to mention marks (they're now talking about his moving to Gymnasium for Y7 if he wants, no thanks but great boost for him to hear that) I am relieved beyond measure at the changes and the increased provision of Gesamtschulen.
The ethos is totally different, cannot (and am fairly cynical and not blinded by relief) imagine getting a note like admylin did from the GS.

OP posts:
admylin · 04/12/2008 09:04

OK, I understand your situation abit more now nigbynight, I see UK in such a different light because I've never seen half of it I guess! I love Scotland and the north lakes and even Newcastle. But, I can tell you would have to downgrade too much if you had to be in the south east.

Anyway, atleast try to get out of Bavaria. That's one area I told h I would leave him for if he got a job (he applied in Munich a couple of times) and I can even say the whole atmosphere is alot nicer and friendlier in the north where we are now compared to Stuttgart area. When I told my mum on the phone about the snotty sounding teacher's note she said are you sure she's not from Stuttgart?! We all hated it there.

MmeLindt · 04/12/2008 13:36

God, I am glad we left Germany just as the dc were starting school.

Nighbynight
Obviously, I cannot say too much yet as the DC have only been in Swiss schooling since October, but so far I am impressed.

DD gets extra help to learn French. She is in her normal class mornings and in her French class afternoons.

The teachers are less formal than in German schools. They do an awful lot together, trick or treat, decorating the village Xmas tree, nativity play etc.

The school is much warmer and more welcoming than DD's german school. Might just be the small village school.

Would you be able to find work in CH?

ZZZen · 04/12/2008 17:56

Count your lucky stars ML, honestly, even when other things are getting you down. It's a harsh set-up all round the school system in Germany IYAM. I never met any parent who was really HAPPY with it, maybe I only attracted the disgruntled ones. Never met a dc who loved school either. Do you know I met one woman at choir whose ds had been in 6 different primaries in 6 years in Berlin. Five of them rubbish. At the end of year 5 she had gone to the Schulamt, desperate wtih frustration and asked them whether there were ANY good primaries in Berlin.

Eek! At having the guts to do that.... She's Brazilian, very distinguished looking, opera singer, maybe carried it off. Anyway the woman at the Schulamt said, "well what are you looking for? You won't get everything you know". So the Brazilian says, "yes, well what I'm looking for is a school where ds won't come home with a black eye and a school where the teaching is good. I'd be happy with that these days".

The woman at the Schulamt actually told her she wouldn't find a school like that in Berlin. (!) Her advice was to send him to a school in Wedding of all places. Dunno how to describe Wedding but admylin will back me up, you wouldn't ever think of choosing to send your dc there if you lived in a different part of town. Apparently they are trying new (ie modern) styles of teaching at this 1 school. How would you describe Wedding admylin? So she moved him to this experimental primary and says it is a huge difference in teaching styles and effectiveness of teaching but her problem is he now needs to move to secondary poor kid - and where to send him?

NN, I keep waiting to hear that everything is going great for your family and I don't know what stuff you're made off to keep going the way you do. You're amazing. I don't think the school system is ever likely to work to the advantage of your dc but hope I am wrong and things take a massive turn for the better before long. Is Sweden an option for you?

ZZZen · 04/12/2008 18:22

taipo, I don't think your ds has ADHS. I think they place too many dc in a classroom (not just in DL of course) and expect them to adjust to the change from free range kiga to formal schooling - and many of them are totally stressed out.

School is really very repressive it seems to me from the word go practically and I think the effect of this is that the dc have bottled up frustration and anger which they need to unleash. I think many boys feel this stronger which is why IMO there is so much violence in these schools and so much aggressive speech/behaviour amongst the dc and from the dc toward their dp.

I'm no expert I know but my instinctive reaction would be to allow him to let out his pent up aggression on you if need be until he has had a lot more time to adjust. I would consider more sport as a means of getting it out of his system if he enjoys it. Otherwise try being very very calm and just taking the punches as they come. I feel he is letting out the stress the school has put on him and he should not be additionally stressed at home by being blamed for doing this. I think it will calm with time.

However being bored at school as well as everything else is not good, is it? COuld you not try the year 2 class for a few trial days without it being a definite commitment to change? Is the teacher he would have nice? If he is being disruptive in class and this behaviour is becoming worse, you do need some kind of solution so it doesn't become a set pattern (i.e. a habit and therefore the code of behaviour he will always slip into in a school situation).

Did you see the teacher about it?

Nighbynight · 04/12/2008 19:16

ZZZen, ds1 is having loads of homework at the moment, high stress in our household. We went to see another family, to get something that he had forgotten to copy down, and I said to the mum, something like "isnt it awful, they have so much homework"
She just looked at me and said "Our experience is quite different."

End of attempt at mutual sympathy
So there is the parent who is totally happy with the system....

dd1's (Yr 6, HS) teacher admitted to me the other day, that dd1 is more intelligent than many children who get to the gymnasium, and that the system is shite. Which she is and it is of course, but it was very nice to get independent confirmation.

Nighbynight · 04/12/2008 19:24

Sweden, I am not sure, it is far. Also I know several engineers who have worked there, and reports are not always happy. (flat broken into, unfriendly colleagues, racism)

Thank you for info about CH, Mme Lindt. It's currently top of my list, but, but - I so want to own our own house, and I dont know any foreigners who've managed to do that in CH. Also heard stories about being fined for putting your bin out on the wrong day, and needing 10000 euros to open a bank account (but maybe that is out of date now). On the plus side, know a lot of people who seem to be v happy there.

Love Koblenz, and would love to live there if could find a job.

taipo · 04/12/2008 20:08

Zzzen, thanks for your kind words . I think you're right about it being very difficult for boys, in particular, to settle into school. Ds is by no means the only child to be struggling with the transition. My neighbour had a 1 1/2 hour meeting with the teacher the other day about her ds and was told that he isn't really 'schulreif.' Another mother was told after 6 weeks that her ds can't yet read or write and might have to repeat the 1. Klasse. WTF!!

I don't know about ds. There is a lot that points towards ADHS but not everything. I think a major problem is that he is a very anxious child and hates big groups and change of any kind (there are 30 children in his class). He either withdraws completely or goes wild - there is no happy medium with him in a group situation. Anyway I have made an appointment to see a child psychologist in Feb so we can hopefully get him assessed properly and work out what to do. Haven't seen the teacher yet. Am waiting for dh to get back so that we can perhaps go together. Meanwhile he has been calmer at home since the meltdown the other day so perhaps he did just need to let out his frustrations. I am trying to be very calm and patient but firm with him but it is hard work sometimes.

CindersHasAChristmasBallgown · 04/12/2008 20:10

hello all

sorry quick kindergarten question

where you ever asked what your child liked to do at home ....

am torn from feeling it is nice of them to ask
but bewildered why they asked

taipo · 04/12/2008 20:15

Hi Cinders, yes I've been asked that. But it was when ds started KG and I think it was because they just wanted to find out what his interests were.

How are things with your ds atm?

CindersHasAChristmasBallgown · 04/12/2008 20:20

he is fine thank you, he is a very lively child and they seem slightly concerned by his butterflying around ...

he does not finish things there...

but they are a small class and he has made friends

just surprised to be asked now after a few months what he liked to do at home...

felt a bit of a trick question

taipo · 04/12/2008 20:39

Hmm, I can see what you mean. I hate those potentially loaded questions. But perhaps they were just trying to find out what makes him tick when he plays at home so they can point him in the direction of certain toys if he gets restless at KG.

ZZZen · 04/12/2008 20:41

Don't think it was anything sinister really cinders. Dd was at 3 German kigas and I didn't get asked that question but it may be fairly standard for all I know

CindersHasAChristmasBallgown · 04/12/2008 21:15

hhhmmm

thank you

seems a mystery
one week they are very concerned
then they are happy for a few more weeks

well dh is taking ds again in the morning as he has the car

will wait and see

and ponder on dd announcing
'think I will change school'

arrgghhhh

a five year old and a seventeen year old

ZZZen · 04/12/2008 21:20

I don't know why he has to finish things really at kiga. Why is this such a big deal? Things like artwork?

CindersHasAChristmasBallgown · 04/12/2008 21:30

think it is everthing ...

leaving a trail of unfinished work, puzzles.

the artwork is rather too tidu almost airbrushed

I like it when you now the child has been the artist ..

i just want him to be happy there

CindersHasAChristmasBallgown · 04/12/2008 21:31

tidu....

tidy

time for sleep for me..

MmeLindt · 05/12/2008 07:00

Cinders
My friends DD was like this when she started Kita. She swept through the Kita leaving chaos and destruction behind her. The Kita recommended having her checked out and the optician discovered that she was severly short sighted (3dioptrine) in both eyes. She was not able to concentrate on anything for longer periods of time.

Not saying that the same is true of your DS but have you checked things like hearing, sight etc recently. My friend's DD had been tested only 8 mths before and was ok.

She got glasses about 6 months ago and the change in her was amazing. It was like she had been using up so much energy just to see her way through the day and once she could see she came in so much inher development. She has been for a check up recently and her eyes have improved.

admylin · 05/12/2008 09:39

OK, I know I kicked up a bit of a fuss at the English teacher sending that note home about ds's missing homework but yesterday he walked through the front door an hour before he should have been home, he'd forgotten to go to Förderunterricht for German

It was too late to get the car out and drive him back but what on earth is wrong with him? He's switched part of his brain off, and now I'm thinking that the English teacher was right maybe and he's really missed writing some homework down or forgotten something. Is this maybe a start of puberty thing? He's 10 and a half.

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