For mums who grew up in multiple countries, or are bringing up kids in multiple countries

[MizZan]

This is a question for those of you who grew up moving from country to country or have brought up kids who are now older doing the same. Our kids already have 2 nationalities and have lived in 2 countries, we're now looking at moving to a third (Singapore) for a few years, and then back to either US or UK when DS1 is 10 or 11.

My question is: at what age do you think it's important to be settled in one place, from DC's perspective? Does the constant moving mean shyer DCs disconnect from others socially and never really feel a sense of permanence or a sense of home? Is there any way to avoid this?

Any other tips or advice would be very welcome. DS1 is high-strung and bad at dealing with change, I am afraid we are going to damage him permanently if we're not careful and don't want him to end up feeling completely rootless or have trouble establishing lasting relationships later in life.

I grew up in 2 countries and spent the first seven years scuttling backwards and forwards. However at 7 we settled here. I don't think I suffered particularly, but I feel my older brother did.
Apparently there is research that shows that kids adapt very well when younger but by the age of 9 or 10 it becomes more problematic.Changing schools and breaking friendships at that age has more of a negative impact.

Having said that I am sure you will find lots of people posting, saying how they had no issues and that moving around was the best thing ever

I think it helps if you have strong contacts in your home country/countries, US/UK and keep in touch with family & friends regularly. Not as easy if you're far away of course but I've found that my children have so much phone/e-mail/postal contact with my parents that my mum often knows more about their weekly routines than my ils who live 45 mins away.

As for constant moving, others have told me that their children benefitted from the matter-of-fact "Here we are and isn't it exciting" mixed with loads of reassurance and consistency of family routines (still eating together/films or swimming on Saturdays etc.)
I do also think it is harder on them when they get to 10-ish but know several families where the children have coped better than the adults.

tiredlady, thanks for your response. I also have friends who moved to new countries at 10 or 11 and seem to have that kind of permanent disconnected feeling. I don't think it makes for a particularly happy existence.

Am just wondering if there is any way to avoid this for our older dc, or if we should just drop this whole idea and resettle back in the UK now. But have to balance that against the financial/professional attractiveness of a few more years overseas. On the other hand if we stayed in Sing for 4 years (current plan), that would be longer than he's ever lived anywhere in his life. Am concerned that if we then rip him away from that to return to the UK he will really feel it and resent us and be miserable - even leaving the UK at age 5 he was extremely upset. And it's not like we'd be able to spend a lot of time back in the UK or US during the Singapore posting, so he could stay in touch with friends easily - it's just too far, and the friendships aren't really strong enough at his age.

I went to 7 different primary schools in 5 countries before I was 9, and had 6mths home schooling in that time as well. I was/am extremely shy and had trouble settling in each new school but my little sister was fine. She is only 18mths younger than me so I don't think it was an age thing, it just depends on the individual personality. I don't know what the point of this post is actually! Maybe I'm just trying to say that only you can tell how your dcs will deal with it, they could find it difficult or they could be absolutely fine.

I grew up moving all over the place - mainly within the UK but overseas too.

In my case I was really unsettled by all the moves and was sent to boarding school aged 9 To give me the stability I needed. My brothers however were completely unconcerned by the whole thing and moved around with my parents. In your case though, if you are planning to put roots down when your eldest is 10 or 11 then I think you'll be OK in the long run . Perhaps you could aim to have settled somewhere by the time he starts secondary / high school?

I know there is an element of personality here which is part of my concern. DS2 is first of still little (2) and second of all a pretty easygoing and adaptable type, always has been. DS1 is the opposite of that - gets freaked out by even minor changes in routine, acts out as a result, worries about everything, much slower to make friends with new kids though I wouldn't necessarily describe him as shy. He is very attached to me and DH and I can't see sending him to boarding school, think he would be very homesick and unhappy. I would love to think that by moving around when he's young we would help open his mind to new experiences and make him more adaptable but I think the reality is he craves stability and routine, not novelty. Unlike his parents (though this constant moving thing has gotten very old, I'd be happy to give it up but DH is quite set on going).

Oh yes, definitely aim for being settled for the whole of their secondary education. My parents moved when I was just about to go into my last year at school and it was the worst thing ever. And to make it even more horrible they moved hemispheres, so I had the choice of dropping back a year or doing my A levels in one year because of the different academic year start dates. And now I am moving back to the country they moved me from and they are sad and angry with me, but it's home.

I would agree that boarding school isn't necessarily the best option at all - I wasn't very happy there and felt separated from the rest of my family, esp because my brothers were still at home.

Would it be one move to Singapore then one move to settle down permanently? With a longish gap between the two?

I really think you'll be OK at that sounds like your ds1 is temperamentally similar to me as a child and I would have been OK with that. I would have been upset with each move but I would have been OK after a while and two moves in, say, 5 years wouldn't have scarred my childhood.

thank you all, it is so helpful to hear this feedback, and just know we are not the only ones in this situation. Yes it would be one move to Singapore (though from what I've heard it is likely there would be a change of schools and probably also a change of apartments in there too, during our stay), and then a permanent move back to UK or possibly US after that. But we have already done quite a few moves with him - kid is only 6 and has already been in 3 schools in 3 different locations (2 in UK 1 in US) over the past 4 years, as well as moving house several times just in the last 9 months (don't ask). took him about 6 months to settle into school here in the US and I know he will be gutted we are leaving. If we were returning to the UK (where he could go back to his old school) I think he would be very excited about it and would slot right in with his old friends. If going to Singapore that is obviously a whole different kettle of fish and I am sure he would be very disrupted both going there and also coming back in 4 yrs.

MizZan its a difficult one and frankly you must do what feels right for you as a family. He is still so small at 6, he will be sad to leave but should settle quickly in his new school. You could keep up communications with the old school for a while until he lets go.

DD is also 6 and has done school in French in Cameroon, then in the UK for one year, now in Kenya since Jan, and has to move to a Prep school in September. All in 2.5 years. Luckily she has adapted well (including the arrival of another brother!) and I think being with a happy mum and dad and lots of love reassurance and talking about her anxieties and what will happen has helped.

We don't plan to move from here for at least 5 years but will have a dilemma about what to do when dd finishes Prep school. A lot of children here move at 11/13 to another school out of the country and adapt very quickly and actually are happy to 'move on', ready to leave a developing country and go back to their 'own' country. Four years between now and when he turns 10 is actually a long time, his personality may change and he may become more confident in himself.

There is a really good book you can get through the US amazon site, called something like Third Culture kids, which offers advice and sound words about bringing up dc like ours. Its an interesting read. Good luck with whatever you decide.

that is interesting, cameroonmama. part of my concern is if we went back to our old town in the UK (where in any case we only lived 2 years, so do not have very close ties there), the other kids in school would all have been there all along, know each other well - it is a lovely but very homogeneous place and I am afraid it would be very hard for him to make a place for himself socially at age 11 if everyone else already has their friends, their lives, etc. all set. And by that age there is not so much one can do to help them along, not like when they're younger and you can arrange playdates for them etc. Also do not like the idea that he won't have the opportunity to make and keep lifelong friends, I know I really value a couple of the friends I have who I've known since early childhood but maybe that is more a "girl" thing?

Do you MizZan, I have not even thought of that side of things for neither for dd nor the two boys. One girl who went back in Sept this year to board at 13, said it was difficult at first, but has found her place now and is much happier. Conversely there is a girl in her dorm who has been there for some time, who recently tried to take her own life . I think the teens are a tough part of life, whether you are in an 'established' crowd of friends (as i was) or not. My most valued friendships come from being at university, rather than school.

Reading between the lines, and do please beat me down if I am wrong, it sounds more like you are looking for excuses not to go?

If you and your dh are happy about going to Singapore and will enjoy it there, looking to the positive side and the enormous benefits your and your dc will have from living in a different culture then your son is sure to pick up on that and be confident about his place in life, enabling him to move more easily between cultures and make friends wherever is home. IMO

I hope I haven't been too blunt

you're not being too blunt, cameroonmama - you couldn't have said it in a nicer way, and you are pretty much right.

it's true I am not so enthusiastic about going. would prefer just to go back to the UK and finally be settled, in many ways - not least because it would make my life easier, but also because I think it's just better for kids to have some stability. we could walk into a pretty perfect setup if we went back now - jobs, schools, etc. all lined up. that definitely won't be the case 4 years from now. Also it is very far from aging parents, which could become a significant issue.

but - I like Sing. well enough (we lived there pre kids for a while) and it's not like I think I'll hate it or anything. It would be great to have the chance to show some of Asia to the kids, though probably they're too little to get much out of it. I would enjoy it though! Also, the money would be nice (though that seems all rather theoretical to me right now), and the job opportunity for dh is one that he would not have elsewhere.

My main concerns are the disruption to their lives and to all of us in the immediate future - which is a short term thing, and I think we'd all get through it - and more importantly that all the moving around might start having a more severe impact than we might think on DS1, who has thus far shown himself to be absolutely a hater of change of any kind - just seems cruel to keep imposing it on him, and so dramatically too. Not to mention how miserable he makes all our lives when he is miserable . Hmm. We have some thinking to do still. I am going to look for that third culture kids book.

i realise you may have finished the thread, but just in case you check again, i grew up in different cities in oz,uk,us and spore and ended up going to 13 primary and secondary schools...

each move was entirely different and each culture suited one of us (me and 2 brothers) more than the others - almost as if we were suited to a city, and we all now live in separate countries. our personalities changed as we grew; with my brothers doing a flip around, with the shy one becoming extremely outgoing, and the more attention seeking one becoming quite restrained.

all three of us are keenly aware that many of the experiences we have had, we can only share between us - and that's kept us close emotionally, if not physically - skype is great. though none of us have life-long friendships with others and envy other people for that. though we've had close friends and varying degree of popularity in all the places we lived, the friendships haven't really gone the distance - and that's partly, sad to say because of a sense of inevitability of moving each time. that said, you won't be moving anywhere near so often, so its entirely probable that wouldn't develop in your dc. the friendships my brothers and i miss are all from the teenage years - so your dcs will have plenty of settled time for this.

also, if you go to spore,whilst there; have you thought whether to educate your children in english or us system. the return journey will be easier iyswim. though the local system was pretty good, there was still an emphasis on rote learning 20 years ago - has prob changed though

i found developing an extra curricular skills that can be transferred to any culture/school useful also. i ended up joining the drama club/choir at each school and made friends quicker because of this. it also gave me a personal context for my education, if that makes any sense.

s'pore can be a great place, as you know, especially for young children. it would be a wonderful and exciting eyeopener for your dc to experience living in a 'westernised' rather than 'western' country. ah the food alone!!!

though it would take them a while to get used to Singlish - this probably sounds silly - any chance of getting some s'pore shows recorded? it makes a huge diff being able to understand what's being said to you. (i couldn't learn anything at school for the first month in each new country - as completely baffled by accents!) Singlish is particularly different from UK-US because of
the inventiveness and resulting word play of having English/Hokkien/Malay and Tamil all mashed together. Also the relative lack of hearing it in the media.

Hope any of these thoughts help - the more preparation you can do with your children about Singapore, the better. Libraries should have children's fact books on Singapore - but may be worth buying some if you intend on going through with the move. It may even get you excited about going. Keep it light and fun if you can - if you have more of an attitude of adventure it could be more reassuring. I remember my mum going through a book on the US and we'd planned to watch the trash compactor in the sink after seeing it in a diagram of the typical US home

i wish you so much luck and strength and easy transitions for you and your fam, esp ds1.