Moving to Abu Dubi with 2 children 10 years old

[hotairball]

Abu Dhabi (it wont let me edit, sorry)

I would live some help in location and schools.

Our job will be in Al Maryah Island.

We will be looking to live somewhere where we can buy a villa. We have a fair amount to spend so looking for high end areas (i know most are) with families.
What are the 2 top areas we could move to where it would be a maxium of a 20mins drive to work.

we would also be looking for an academic school (british) school within a 15 min drive from our home.

Any help will be much appreciated.

xxxx

I last lived there 4 years ago, but as I said I currently live in Dubai and DH actually works in AD. They're only about an hour's drive away from each other.

There haven't been any big changes in the structure of the real estate market in AD since I left - probably the biggest one is more properties being built on Yas Island. It's still only a very limited number of areas where non-Emiratis can buy. Compare to Dubai where if you're looking at living in a house not an apartment you can buy nearly everywhere you would realistically be looking to live (with the notable exceptions of Jumeirah and Umm Suqeim ). You can't buy everywhere but the main areas you can't buy in are older areas and only two people I work with come to mind who own somewhere I wouldn't be able to buy (and one of those is Emirati!).

In Dubai nearly all of my colleagues own. In Abu Dhabi none of my former colleagues own. Income levels are very similar, and my Abu Dhabi colleagues are general long term Abu Dhabi residents.

I know rents are high but even if you can afford to pay all cash for a house remember that that money could be working for you in other ways. You're talking about spending well over a million pounds (and possibly closer to three million if you want 4 beds and as high end). You don't need to be spending 600k plus on rent for a nice house in AD, although you will pay that in the high end areas expats can buy in!

Oh and there hasn't been any particular change in a year towards getting more expats to move to AD in the last two years once you adjust for the pause over COVID when no one was moving anywhere. AD has seen a bit of an increase, but nothing like what Dubai has seen. Dubai has gone mad.

It’s ok cos they wouldn’t have a job and income otherwise

Hi, I feel like you moved at the exact point before loads of people started buying .. We bought in 2021 and all the Brits said we were crazy. Now everyone who accused us of being crazy then has bought themselves. However, these are all people who see their future as being in AD for at least the next 5 years and had already lived here long enough to know they wanted to stay.

There’s a lot of choice for expat buyers in where to buy, and easy for them to buy. However PP are right in that if you want to buy a villa you are looking at over £1 million easily.

I don’t know Dubai well so I’m sure it is crazier, but the property market in Abu Dhabi and the profile of who is buying has changed dramatically in the last 4 years.

No one I know in Abu Dhabi has bought though and these are people who have been in AD for years and see themselves spending the rest of their careers in AD. It may be there are some groups where it's become more common (particularly as prices dipped over COVID) and from what you say the explosion in purchasing that kicked off around 2021/2022 in Dubai also trickled over to AD, but it's still not the norm as far as I can see and the property market is still extremely restrictive. Honestly in Dubai I only know three groups of people who haven't bought: (1) new people who aren't sure if they're staying, (2) long term well paid expats who have effectively been priced out because the prices of the areas they live in have gone through the roof, but they don't see it as a wise financial decision to spend £10/20m on a property in Dubai, even with increased rents, and (3) medium/long term expats who simply can't afford to. Dubai is now like the UK in that if people can buy, they buy - there's too much insecurity in renting, and people are putting down long term roots. There's only one person on my team of 20 people who has lived in Dubai less time than me, and I've been here 4 years! I still feel like the newbie 🤣

This isn't about Dubai being crazier - it's about the Dubai market being substantially larger, more established and liquid. It's all about how much risk you're willing to take though - people who bought in Dubai about 20 years ago when the market was similar to AD have obviously made a lot of money and the same could happen in AD. You've done well getting in early and I really hope it works out - it probably will and you're likely much more if a risk taker than I am (DH lost his job over COVID and whilst we were fine because I'm the main breadwinner, it will forever make me cautious about having too much tied up in illiquid assets - my financial advisor hates how much of our wealth is tied up in our house as it is!). I don't criticise the choice when you've made it as an informed one but OP doesn't even have school places for her kids yet!

And it also depends how rich you are or what % of your wealth would be tied up in AD in the market crashed and you lost a job, etc etc. Obviously for a billionaire it makes sense to buy because then you much more control over where you live. OP seems to be looking at this as the best option financially though, and that's where I would be very very cautious.

For the people you know who rent villas, how common is it for their landlord to be an expat in AD? In Dubai (with limited exceptions eh Jumeirah as I mentioned) it would be rare for a landlord to be Emirati. That's how different the make up of the property markets are.

I may be wrong on house prices though because you mention £1m. Is there a luxury area in AD you can buy a 4 bed for anywhere close to £1m? If so it's substantially cheaper than Dubai and it makes the buy v rent tradeoff more worth taking the risk. People do seem to make this calculation forgetting that that £1m wouldn't just be sitting as 1m if you didn't buy a house though. Realistically you'd be making £40k+ a year in interest/investment increases, and of course it actually costs taxes etc to buy a house (not sure how much that is in AD).

Finally, just to correct what someone said up thread (not you obviously @matildatoldme), everyone in AD does not stop work at 12.30 on a Friday! Schools and government jobs do. Most private sector jobs don't. AD work hours are a bit better than Dubai of course. Now I don't know how much the Abu Dhabi Inc companies have moved to 12.30 finishes ( @matildatoldme this is one for you!) and at senior levels really mean that rather than just expecting people to continue working outside official hours, but unless you actually know please don't assume that it will be shorter working hours than the UK for the type of role that pays enough for you to buy a luxury property!).

At the risk of derailing the thread slightly, Abu Dhabi consists of bubbles just like anywhere else and whilst not the majority, probably a good 30% of the western expats I know have bought. If we expand that to non-Emiratis probably 60% of my friends own. I think though it comes down to whether you see your time in the UAE as ‘tied to this specific job’ or if you think you would make it work regardless.

However I totally agree with you that as a newcomer I would arrive and rent before buying. At the very least one wants to understand the different areas you can buy in, and like anywhere else each area attracts different ‘crowds’.

You are also totally right on the fact that most places do not finish at 12:30 on a Friday … ‘Abu Dhabi Inc’ companies do not either!

Pricing of houses compared to Dubai is an interesting one. I’ve long maintained that luxury areas in AD were very underpriced compared to Dubai (note that is past tense). In 2021 you could buy a 4 bed villa in Saadiyat for under a million GBP. Now, as you say, you absolutely could not, mostly you’re looking above £3 million. The announcement of Disneyland in AD has increased prices even further.

I agree re the bubbles and you obviously actually live in AD so I am probably more in the bubble than you. I'm also overstating ownership in Dubai in my head a bit, because I'm subconsciously excluding all of the recent influx chasing the lifestyle - they certainly aren't buying, they are often barely earning! If you look at the group of people who would be in a period of their lives where uh would be normal to own in the UK though, I reckon profile of ownership is about the same in Dubai (excluding very new arrivals). People in Dubai don't tend to see their time tied to a job. We're due another crash though, so it will be scary/interesting to see how that plays out.

Darn I was hoping you'd tell me AD Inc were operating 9-5 and finishing at 12.30 on a Friday (although not surprised!). Job market in Dubai is crazy and the vast majority of vaguely interesting roles are AD Inc (or Saudi).

The price thing is really interesting as well (and I do put it down to the limited area options). You'd probably need to pay double in Dubai to get an equivalent to Al Reef (taking location into account), and maybe 1.5x for Al Raha Gardens. But then you really don't seem to get anywhere near as much for your money at the top end (well the topish end - once you hit the real top end it all goes crazy on both sides but particularly Dubai). If you have 1-3m to spend in Dubai you have far more and better options than in AD.

[Although I still think it's insane than I'm talking house prices in £m in the first place, but then I'm not from London or the South East!]

Ultimately OP it’s choice if you choose a life that is propped up by modern slavary in an intolerant country. You’re basically choosing a heavily sanitized environment which is what wealth can provide.

Thats one hundred percent your choice but I think it’s important to acknowledge it.

I have really been trying not to engage, but @CreteBound actually the biggest issue being faced at the moment in the low wage space you're talking about (for Dubai at least) is not the point you're talking about. That space isn't perfect by any means but there's a lot of attention to the issue and new laws being introduced to force employers to provide appropriate accommodation etc.

The developing issue is in a very different. Over the last year or so there has been a mass influx of white collar workers, largely from the sub-continent either on tourist visas or take advantage of some of the long term visa options now available at relatively low cost. These people struggle to find employment without connections and without income, and having spent a large amount of money on coming to Dubai and said long term visa options, get very desperate. Employers take advantage and as a result salaries are being pushed very very low.

These jobs don't come with accommodation, and whilst no one is locked up in labor camps in the desert in these roles (which is pretty unusual now anyway because employers doing this would be in serious trouble if caught), they have zero safety net and because of high accommodation costs end up having to rent illegal (and unsafe) partitioned accommodation which the government is now clamping down on. These are salaries that you simply cannot live on and very often are actually lower than the salaries that the people you are focused on are earning, particularly when you take into account the fact that blue collar jobs usually come with accommodation and food provided.

We're talking people in HR/marketing/IT with university degrees accepting jobs paying the GBP 400 a month, being expected to work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, putting up with horrific bosses because they are terrified they'll end up without a job at all and there's this idea that if you get your first job you get UAE experience and then can move upwards from there (I'm not clear this is actually true for 99% of people). I saw an example recently of an employer interviewing a strong candidate for a marketing job who didn't have UAE experience. Budget for the job was around GBP 4,000 a month and the employer was willing to pay this much for the candidate (they were down to last 3, the candidate had strong experience from India and the lack of UAE experience wasn't a dealbreaker). The candidate completely off their own back brought up salary and said they were willing to work for GBP 400 because they needed the job. Good employers will ignore that, but let's be honest most will take advantage.

Cost of living in Dubai is roughly the same as London FYI, and there's no (real) safety net if you find yourself without a job.

I don't know what the solution is. A minimum wage doesn't work as these new visa types make it easy for people to technically be employed as contractors and therefore fall under the radar for any controls. That's even worse because then there's not a requirement to provide medical insurance. I suppose it's that you stop people coming unless they have a job in advance, but actually managing that in practice is close to impossible and no matter how many times you tell people it's a bad idea people still try because there's always a friend of a friend who it worked for.

Same thing happens with British people in their early 20s, but they're usually far less qualified, and they come up with the dream of making millions in real estate.

You think the police are going to be impartial and fair in the UAE? Dear oh dear..

I do love how every time there’s a post asking for advice on moving to the ME or even holidaying there, all the virtue signallers can’t wait to jump in with ‘I’d never move to Dubai/holiday in Dubai because human rights’ etc, meanwhile probably happily buying cheap tat from China made by slave labour and having no desire/intention/possibility to ever move to Dubai or wherever else in the first place. Unless you’re going to track the supply chain of every item you buy off Amazon or wherever, every item of food you consume and so on to ensure it’s completely ethically produced, best not to throw stones.

Anyway, I lived in Abu Dhabi previously and it was fantastic, pre kids though so can’t offer advice on schools unfortunately. But I’m sure it will be a great move and we are looking to do similar in the future for the reasons you listed if things keep declining in the UK.

Yes, because I have never felt hate and intolerance living in the UK. Funnily enough I have felt a whole lot less public and private hate and intolerance as a british asian living in the uae than I have in the UK because for the most part they welcome foreigners/expats here.

As for gay rights, it can't be high on the radar for anyone thinking to move to the ME, where conservative and family orientated values still rule. It's not everyones priority, and that's ok. My kids attend a british school and while no one is taught about gay rights, neither is it talked about with hate or intolerance.

Also the point about slave labour etc is also a moot point for anyone wishing to move there.

You’ll do more to combat slave labour by moving to the ME and providing decent employment to someone who desperately needs it, than by being a keyboard warrior sitting in their front room in the UK, enjoying their privileged status and not wanting to share it with anyone else.

I hired my kids nanny who fled her last appointment in the middle of the night, as she was abused. She is now a loved member of our family, given a generous salary, given all her contractual rights and time off, and is very happy with us. Expats who move to the ME and provide these positions are not doing anything wrong. On the contrary they set a tone for hiring domestic staff and giving them their full rights, evidenced when you join communities and the conversation is often around what the rights of domestic staff are.

You wouldn’t think it to hear the comments from people who probably have no experience of living in the ME and are just regurgitating what they hear . If we all avoided countries where there are human rights abuses there would be literally no where left on the planet to live.

Sorry to derail your thread OP but just sick of hearing the same unhelpful and irrelevant talking points.

You do need to rear children in these places to be aware of not getting into squabbles with local teens or to react to them at all ie walk away . Local teens like to try to stir it with expat boys and the expat kids will ALWAYS be the ones to get the blame. The same with taxis. It's not necessarily a bad thing though. It's just another aspect of living in a country where you may be held responsible because of something due to your nationality.