Moving to Paris from London

[skyfly]

Hi, wondering if anyone has relocated to Paris recently and could share their experience. We have been living in London for 18 years and I love it but good work opportunity is coming up in Paris and we are thinking if it’s worth relocating. Kids are still in primary and we all speak French. I just do not know how the family life will look like in Paris and guess afraid of change. Lots of questions in my mind: how would kids settle and should we go to international school? Is it safer than London or mostly same? would I ever be able to find some friends? It would be good to hear from other's experiences

Have you looked at the price of international schools in Paris? If they aren't being paid for by your company, they could be out of range. It's more than an average London private school.

Just looked at the cost of my old international in Paris and the fees are ouch now!

Tbh I wish now I'd gone to the local school, my French would be so much better.

I lived in Paris, but a very long time ago!

I can only speak from my experience there, that it was not safer than London at all. I live near London now and I know there are huge problems in London, so i get why you would want to move.

But I personally didn't feel safer in Paris. I got harassed by men a lot, like A LOT, and I'm not particularly pretty. Way, way more of that than in London. A friend of mine got attacked when she challenged a group of men who had said something to her friend. They followed her up the street hitting her in the head and kicking her. This was a busy street in the early evening and nobody did a thing to stop them.

This was a long time ago though as I say. Probably 2006/2007

Editing to add that the men who attacked my friend were not French, but either visiting or ex pats

Paris is expensive. More expensive than London for a lot of things. I also think it’s less safe than London but obviously depends on which areas you’re comparing.

I’ve lived in Paris twice (once as a student, once working when I transferred from our London office to our Paris office) but from there moved to Hong Kong and then back to London a few years ago. I miss Paris terribly - but also love London.

I found it easy to make friends in Paris although my friendship circles were very much separate; one circle was French colleagues (I was the only non-French person in our Paris office) and one circle was expats. I tried mixing the two circles once and that didn’t go well. My French friends were not very ‘tolerant’ of non/limited-French speaking expats, especially the ones who didn’t attempt/ appreciate the French way of doing things. 😜😂

I can’t comment on children as my only experience with them in Paris was with existing locals.

I hate Paris. So many crackheads all over the place. People are cold and rude. Dog poo all over. There are other cities in France that are nicer. Then I suppose I wouldn't recommend anyone to live in London either😅

The school situation isn't easy in Paris. If you choose an international (Anglophone) school you have the choice between International School of Paris (ISP), American School of Paris (ASP) and British School of Paris (BSP) and you need to live in the vicinity of the school or on a school bus route to make it work. Costs are eye-watering for an education in a non-selective environment. Marymount (a private American Catholic school) is wildly popular with some parents but only goes up to 8th grade/Year 9. None of the other fully Anglophone schools should be touched with a bargepole.

The highest status school for foreign/dual national families is Ecole Jeannine Manuel. This school is wildly oversubscribed, requires an extremely high standard of bilingualism (plus other languages) and is a fiercely competitive environment that does not suit every family whose children are admitted.

There are many other bilingual, all of which have "issues". The longest standing is Ecole Internationale Bilingue (EIB) Monceau. You need to go to this school with your eyes open, especially since it was taken over by Globeducate, which is an international private equity backed schools group. Ermitage, at Maisons-Laffitte, was a for a long time a complete no go but it has new (again, private equity) shareholders and a new head and is worth investigating. Of the new independent bilingual primary schools, Concordia is the most promising by far.

Many foreign parents in Paris prefer French Catholic (sous contract) schools to the bilingual and international schools. These are academically and socially sound and since they are cheap as chips (even the high status ones, like Franklin or Stanislas) parents retain lots of budget flexibility to top up their children's education. As a general rule in Paris you should expect to buy extra curricular activities and tutoring on the open market (at home tutoring, including music lessons, is 50% tax deductible) - school is quite a bare bones experience.

The French bac is in a poor way and your children should do the IB if they wish to study outside France.

OP I can’t help too much with Paris but are your kids in a bilingual school here? Is so and they are part of AEFE the school can give you really good advice on moving (they are obstructive to move within London but really incredibly helpful moving abroad!). We’ve don’t two moves and the school really helped figuring out options.

As stated above they need to do the IB. It opens lots of doors

Good luck!

I found Paris safer than London living there 2017-2022, but it depends where you are. I think the nice suburbs are much safer than the comparable nice suburbs in London. London suburbs are possibly more lively though! Paris suburbs change from nice to not nice faster than in London so you have to be careful which block you live on. I assume with a family you won't want to live in the actual city because it's so expensive and busy.

For friends, I found it similar to London. Even among French people, not many were born in Paris so don't have family there and are open to making new acquaintances. You already speak French so that's no problem. I also found that unless you go looking for anglophone circles, the second social language is more often Spanish than English so we'd normally speak bad French because our combined English level was worse than the French! Colleagues were more open to a beer after work than in the UK because everyone lives in tiny miserable apartments and mandatory lunch breaks meant you get to know each other.

I loved living in Paris, even during covid. I think it's a nicer and easier city than London. We left for our careers. I should probably admit that we've moved to a more chilled family friendly country with better pay though, even if the food and weather are terrible.

Many thanks for your helpful feedback! The school is my main concern. Ideally, we will prefer bilingual school but shall consider French catholic as well (thanks for your input). Do you know if international lycée in st German any good?

Thank you so much! They were in a bilingual school initially but we moved to the different area and they are now in state primary.

Thank you so much for the feedback! Really helpful

Thanks, will have a look but heard they are not as expensive as the UK private schools, esp after new VAT rules

Thank you for sharing your experience!

We moved in 2022 (post Brexit job move). Love it here. We live just outside Paris in the western suburbain (to all intents and purposes, it’s Paris; 15 mins from Arc de Triomphe). Western suburbs are a great and cheaper alternative to living in the centre, as well as being very green. Lots of school choices, both international, bilingual, French state and private, plus the famed Lycée Internationale at Saint-Germainen-Laye, which is a lovely town with a vibrant international community. The British School is at Croissy (my son doesn’t attend, but we know loads of people from there and it’s a great community).

There’s the British Scouts based in Croissy, plus loads of activities.

Feel free to PM for more specific info.

The Lycée is still much desired. Too academic for my son; be warned that children are expected to perform well or risk being booted out.

My son attends a hors-contrat (but not too expensive) bilingual French school in SGEL; primary and collège only. There’s also a Steiner school in Chatou (super close to Paris, lovely houses). It’s French and sous-contrat. Trying to persuade my son to go there but he likes where he is.

I’m up in Paris all the time and never feel unsafe. Clearly I’m an old hag, though. It’s a gorgeous city. Loads to do and see. Factor in that hard to make mum friends at the French schools (but primary prob easier than collège), but there are loads of international and expat groups around (I help run a welcome committee for new arrivals to our area), and you can have as busy a social life as you want.

On the practical side, I presume neither of you have EU citizenship? I imagine your companies will sort the admin. French healthcare system is excellent.

Thank you so much for your positive feedback! Instantly made me feel less anxious about our move! 🤗

Excellent, thank you so much for feedback! I’m started to get excited about the move.

Honestly, it’s the best silver lining ever. We were gutted being made to leave London, and my son was in tears. Three years on, and his French has gone from zero to pretty decent, he has friends here, does fencing (great, cheap ish sport here), scouts, and is happy. French schools are much harder work though; quantity of homework is insane. On the plus side, you get Wednesdays off (primary; factor that in for childcare; some kids go to English schools that day or do clubs), plus we get tons of holidays.

I’m a Londoner, and never want to go back.

Depending on your childrens level of french and age there is also l'école alsacienne - https://www.ecole-alsacienne.org/ in the 6th.

I find the city safe and practical and easy to navigate - and also easy to escape at weekends... either for day trips in ile de france or with a quick TGV to further a field.

Ecole Alsacienne is highly oversubscribed and doesn't (unlike Ecole Jeannine Manuel or Ecole Internationale Bilingue) actively wish to recruit students arriving from abroad. There's absolutely no way of getting in without contacts.

I recall a lack of parks in Paris. You'd need a sommarstuga

Huh?! What about all the famous ones? There are lots of chateau in the suburbs with huge parks owned by the state

Paris has lots of smaller parks, as well as the larger ones like Vilette, Luxembourg, Monceau, Plantes etc. Most residential areas have playgrounds dotted around. The western suburbs are super green; all around SGEL you're surrounded by the hunting grounds and forests. Plus, the Seine. The areas around the canals are fab too.