Germans not socialising with colleagues?

[Cheroote]

I know Germany pretty well and lived there as a student and as a teenager.

However, I never worked there as an adult.

I’m now living in the UK and have a really nice German boss. However, he refuses to give anyone his phone number for work kind of WhatsApp groups, (even though in certain instances it would be really beneficial for him), and also doesn’t socialise with colleagues at all. Is this a personal thing or is this a German culture that work And Personal life don’t cross?

in our workplace and all others I’ve worked in it’s common to have a chat in case of last minute changes to work things.
no work phones exist as we don’t use them as part of our job
i have got phone numbers of all my line managers. Rarely used but have been useful in the past

I've worked in closely with a German office. There were differences in the average but mostly culture was similar. I noticed there were probably as many differences between Germans who grew up in the north / south/ east/ west as to the UK. Similarly to how culture in the north of the UK varies from the south, and Scotland + Wales

The German team I worked with were exceptionally friendly, socialised outside of work but I'd say the thing that stood out is they were able to express clear boundaries compared to the UK team. The boundaries differed for each employee. The difference I'm picking up on is that in the UK there seems to be more of a need to people please. But in Germany, the team felt comfortable expressing their needs.

It was probably healthier. I also noticed it was just a trend and much variation in between.

This could explain why you boss is clear and doesn't feel the need to justify their needs of privacy and time out

Thank you. No he didn’t and I’d not expect him to you’re right. And maybe he’s right and we are all wrong. 😀. Hes great.

I've worked with a number of German colleagues, female, and they've all been friendly party animals!

That’s right. Not everyone wants to be able to be contacted by their colleagues 24/7, ‘emergency’ or not. I find all these WhatsApp groups and constant need of contact bizarre.

I live in Germany and they love a What's App group. Maybe the poor guy is already in so many groups that he doesn't want to join another. I would personally detest a What's App group for work purposes. If I want to tell the manager or a colleague something I'll send them an email not broadcast it to the group.

I am not German, nor live in Germany. But I live in German speaking part of Switzerland. There are germans living here.

Based on my experience, there is some cultural aspect to it. Germans and Swiss Germans are more reserved and emotionally detached than British. This is purely based on my experience.

I used to live in the UK before.

I'll echo what the others have said its not a German thing its very normal for people to socialise with friends, not colleagues and people don't ususally give their private numbers out to colleagues,why would they do that? They'd never switch off from work!

I used to socialise with colleagues a lot, and in my first line management role, I socialised quite a lot with my team. Indeed, my very closest friend is someone I used to line manage. However, I learned from experience that it's much better to keep things professional when you're a manager - I now go for a "friendly but not friends" approach.

I think your manager is just being professional rather than it being a German thing.

The German work culture is incredibly similar to ours.

Source: worked for a German company, my best friend is German, I dated one of them.

Many firms in Germany have a "right to disconnect" policy. Very limited or no phone calls or emails regarding work outside working hours.

So there may well be a cultural element. A very good idea, in my view.

I'm a line manager and the constant stream of unnecessary shit I get messaged I'd never give my number out again if I moved job.

Fair play to him for setting boundaries, just because you'd find it useful to have instant access to him he obviously doesn't value that. He will be aware of how in your opinion it could make things easier but has still decided against it. Presumably you can reach him in some way if an emergency. I am envious of him.

Respect his work:life balance.

What you think might be beneficial to him isn't relevant. It's not a German thing, it's a you thing - you've become normalised into work spilling over beyond working hours into your private life and that's not the way he rolls.

I have family in Germany, and workplace culture varies as much in Germany as it does in the UK. Social life tends to be centred on sporting clubs, which in some towns will have an employer connection for historic reasons and in other cases won't. But the work:life boundary is generally better respected, no family member has complained of the trivial bullshit spill-over that seems to be common in many UK workplaces.

I work in a multicultural team: Spanish, Polish, Lithuanian, Croatian, USA, Indian, Italian. I'm the boss and they have my private number and vice versa to communicate sudden illnesses. Everyone understands and respects that. I would not appreciate if they started contacting me with random stuff after hours

I think this has nothing to do with nationality or culture and everything to do with maintaining healthy professional boundaries. A work WhatsApp group is my idea of hell.

I work in Germany and have done in UK for German companies and the work culture, in my opinion and experience, is significantly different from uk work culture. German work culture is very hierarchical and static generally. It comes as no surprise that he would be like that to me (it has been the same for my last two companies - only work numbers would be given out) and actually I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s irritated if you keep asking! If he doesn’t want to, leave it. It obviously isn’t doing him any favours but he’s the boss.

editing to add, I am also married to a German and he would be exactly the same.

I've worked in one place in London for nearly 7 years and get on well with colleagues. We socialise regularly. None of them has my personal mobile number.

This varies by person, although I agree German offices are often more hierarchical. I lived in Germany and had colleagues I socialised with a little and others I didn’t at all, although we were friendly in the office. I have also worked for German companies here with German colleagues - and it is a mix. Same as anywhere.

Well having worked in Germany but with an international workplace I can say that everyone socialised on all levels which means bosses at all levels.

Lots of company events. Beer kegs on tap outside was popular. Very sociable actually.

I am but haven't actually worked in the UK so may not be much more enlightening on differences...!

I'd agree with pp that there's often an emphasis on keeping boundaries reinforced by strong unions. A friend's workplace for the longest time wouldn't even enable email logins from home for that very reason.

Perhaps equally important and in stark contrast to insouciant Scandinavians, there's a huge value attached to protection of personal data. Germany's GenX got an entire national census overturned back in the day for what demographers agreed were questions already softened to the point of being near-useless for research.

So probably a combination of the two. I've been holding back on WhatsApp myself seeing how it cannibalizes your personal phone list on sign-up. Have you checked with your boss to see if he wants to create an account using a backup SIM that doesn't contain actual contact info and won't permit the entire company to look up his private data?

Same in Switzerland.

Well, it’s called colleague / Kollege here, which does not necessarily mean a work colleague but simply denotes somebody being an acquaintance but not a friend.

I like my co-workers, they’re actually lovely. But I’ve only known them for 3 months (new job) and therefore wouldn’t describe them as “friends”.

My manager is German, i have her phone number and she's in our WhatsApp group...equally I had an English colleague make a formal complaint about being added to the group with out being asked. I don't think you can generalise really.

Sounds like a great boundary!

I've worked closely with germans for 25 years, and very closely for 10, and very clear work/life boundaries are very much a thing. Even more so if both people are german (like having to use formal Frau/Dr lastname for equal status colleagues), but very much boundaries about even sharing about life outside work. It can be a bit regional as well with the north germans being more formal.
They are also used to the workers councils being a v strong part of this in terms of fighting against out of hours contact, unpaid overtime and so on as well.

DH is. I asked him and he says that its not unusual for work to be kept quite separate from social. Single people MAY sometimes have a drink after work with the team but its not as usual to have so many nights out as here.
He says that sometimes if someone (usually senior) is having a BBQ or similar then junior colleagues might be invited but it will still be seen as a "work" thing.
He says that Germans tend to be more focussed at work, less water cooler chat etc, they are very firmly there to work. Some younger single colleagues may become friends but there isn't a culture of a "work family" some people have here.
Just one view and based in Bavaria, where things can be a bit more formal anyway.