Do you regret moving abroad?

[Flumux]

Do you think life would have been better in the UK?

We love London but hate paying an effective 50% tax rate. So we are looking at doing a few years in Cayman.

It should be good experience professionally but may be seen as a slight step back in terms of quality.

No, we don't, despite how people on MN talk about the USA. We went somewhere we could stay permanently, though, which is very different.

Make sure you run all your numbers carefully on a stint like that; I know people who found that, despite the tax advantages, it didn't work out to be particularly great savings.

You love London but hate paying for its public services. How much are you earning that you're having to pay 50% in tax...? Sorry, tax avoidance gets my goat.

Not just paying for public services. Paying out vast amounts for the gov to waste. So this is the norm for a fairly younger person hitting 40% tax.

Tax 40%, NI 2%, pension 10%, student loan 9%, child benefit charge if two kids 20% (changed to £60k from 50k from April). Grant total 81%. That is one reason why we are emigrating, following a fair number of our friends as well. The exodus of skilled people is hidden and largely not talked about as all the focus is on immigration inflow. Only time it is mentioned is medics leaving and the number is now unprecedented.

So people can pontificate about paying for high quality public services, but in fact none of our public services are good. They cannot sustain population growth we have and some people just don't get that taxing people like this who are no where next to rich is a huge disincentive and makes them think why bother. Hence (and I work in the public sector) we see huge levels of avoidance behaviour as soon as someone hits a £50k salary. So so many cut their hours and move to a four day week and frankly there is no point refusing the request because they leave and are difficult to replace.

We have virtually no senior doctors now working a five day week at all now. They all have cut hours. When the lifetime allowance was removed for pensions last year we had loads rescind their early retirement. They have all said if Labour bring it back that they will give notice to retire....and I'm sorry folks but there isn't much even the gov can do except accept they have taxed people far too much

Ok...your figures.... You pay 40% tax on anything over £50k, so your first £50k isn't counted as 40%. You can't really count pension as a tax because you'll get that back (and then some) when you retire. Student loan doesn't count as a tax, and try living somewhere with significantly higher student fees like the US. Child benefit charge isn't a tax obviously, it's just not recieving the money. I get it, we're at that bracket too and it's annoying but understandable as we have enough money not to need the benefit, compared to those who do. So what you're actually saying is, you pay 22% tax on your first £12-50k and then 40% on anything over that. Plus you're paying into a pension and paying off your student loan. Don't be disingenuous!

Tax levels in the UK are actually fairly average worldwide and our public services are functional enough. I've lived all over the world, well not the Caymen islands... And it's not bad here. I think what you're saying is you're fed up of earning what you consider a high salary but having to give it to other people and for the government to waste. That's fine, I just don't know if it would be better elsewhere if you also want public services that even half work. Governments are wasteful worldwide, everyone thinks their taxes are too high, and there is an "exodus" from so many countries for various reasons. I'm also surprised you know so many people earning above £50k who try to avoid paying taxes. I don't know any. Most people on that salary I know realise how lucky they are to be earning that moch. Maybe there's a sense of entitlement within your industry that's colouring your opinion.

Some family members lived in the Cayman Islands for a bit. A really good experience for a few years. Life is very expensive there though, so you need to run all the approximate costs to work out how much you will need to live comfortably.

There's also a really significant us and them/rich and poor divide, which is becoming increasingly uncomfortable in places so you do need to be careful where you go. Many people do do it for only a few years so it's fairly easy to make friends and get to know people doing similar.

Have you visited before? I recommend Chicken Chicken (unless you're vegetarian of course) and the brunch at Luca.

@PollyPeep I think arguing that these are not taxes is missing the point and is about the level of what a politician would try and argue. Student loans for example are nothing more than a graduate tax given most will never be repaid. Try telling a nurse who gets promoted that all of these deductions (real example by the way) ...she doesn't need to worry as they are not actually taxes....they would frankly laugh in my face. What I have quoted is the reality and what I am seeing weekly and late last year I had one tell me that having a young family, to come to work and have to pay childcare when she received 19% of what she earns over that threshold was crazy and no where near even paid her childcare....so she cut her hours. We now have a unit that operates with reduced hours that cannot be filled. So you can argue whatever, that is the reality of avoidance, and in her case necessary as well as her hourly rate was £25.50 and she received £4.87 per hour. Try telling her it isn't really tax!!

You're talking about UK taxes. All I'm saying is, if you're talking about UK taxes, don't include student loans, pensions and paying back child benefit. Just be honest. You'd pay back tuition fees, pay for a pension, pay for childcare and pay taxes elsewhere. This is not UK specific. Yes, a lot of your salary goes on paying back your uni tuition, that's annoying. And I agree childcare is extortionate in the UK. It's one of the reasons I had to leave my job and go self employed. But I take issue at the fact that you're stating an "effective 50% tax" (and later 81%) and you'll need to leave the UK to avoid paying it.

Are student fees cheaper in other places? Where in the world would you have studied that you'd get free tuition, pay into a pension for free (?), find very cheap childcare and also these amazingly efficient public services and competent government? Name a place and we'll all move there!

I didn't say 50%. I think you will find that is the OP.

I think my point is made and if you look at one of the key reasons why NHS staff are moving abroad, it is lifestyle, salary, taxation. People will rarely work for 19%...ie £4 per hour. And that is the reality. Certain,y doesn't happen in Aus, NZ, Canada etc

No, don't regret it at all but it's been of an issue as parents get older and you have to keep travelling back. Other than that, I would never have the quality of life I have overseas in the UK. Also, kids have had a fantastic life overseas - they go on and on about it when comparing to their friends in the UK - can't beat going to the beach at weekends and relaxing in the sun. The weather really affects my mood so that was a big thing. Plus the trains especially the underground, again, no.

If you are only talking about tax rates then no, we are better off here and have bought property in the UK so we can go when we like. The tax rates in the UK kill you and the government has become far too greedy and as usual, it is the middle classes who are paying for it.

The reason NHS staff move abroad is pay and working conditions, plain and simple. The UK has stagnant wages and in the NHS specifically, wages have declined in real terms (i.e. after inflation). It's not tax; the UK isn't a terribly high tax country. Other Anglophone countries charge university fees. If you want to go for free, you can move to Sweden or France or Germany ... and pay their taxes.

I have zero regrets. Where i live the taxes are higher but my god we get great services for them
We are outdoors all the time. Lovely weather, people are happier, the sky is blue. Work life balance is so much better.

I only return now to see my mum

I will never willingly return

Thanks, that was my point to the OP and @MarieG10. Pay, conditions, childcare costs, these are all reasons people move. None of which are particularly UK-specific. But trying to say that UK taxes are effectively 50% and that you're going to move to the Cayman islands to avoid paying taxes is both untrue and just tax avoidance, plain and simple.

We spend quite a lot of time in the Cayman Islands and have toyed with moving there. Career wise it probably is a step back. The pace of life is better however it’s hugely expensive. The island is becoming more and more congested, the cruise ships and their passengers generally are a nightmare and bring little benefit. Sergio is health issues need to be treated in Miami so not so great if you have these or are aging. It is very low lying and does occasionally get a wash and property is damaged and sand dumped.
however, it’s safe, friendly, lovely weather.

Moving abroad solely to pay less tax is a shrivelled and depressing reason to do so. Moving abroad because you want to experience somewhere new, learn a new language, smell a different air -- all good reasons.

No tax related.

I couldn’t say I regret moving to London as I achieved what I wanted; but I am so ready to leave the UK now, the English weather depress me and I feel the kids spend far too much time indoors; however we have stable jobs in London and opportunity to travel and don’t want to disrupt children education. So basically we are stuck here until kids finish school.

Where do you live if you don’t mind me asking?

If you move abroad you don’t have to pay student loan back though, so effectively you would keep more of your salary. I’m about to move to the USA, I’ve paid my student loan off already but my tax burden will be far lower there so my take home pay will be more, my outgoings much lower as property is cheaper. I get great health insurance through work at hospitals which actually function and treatment that doesn’t take 2 years to come through on overstretched waiting lists. The water isn’t full of shit and sewage. The UK is broken beyond repair.

Do you live in Greece? I dream of a life where we can spend time going to the beach on the weekends, relaxing in the sun, having a bbq, visiting new places. Where people talk to each other, spend time outdoors. Life in London can be lonely and the weather doesn’t help.

I’m pleased we moved abroad, but we moved because we wanted a different life for us and our children and wanting to find somewhere that suited us more, I think moving just to pay a bit less tax is odd.

We like where we are, its safe for our eight year old to go to the park and walk to school on his own, its safe for children to get the metro into the city. Schools are very good, wrap around care is included and high quality. Our work life balance is much better, even though in the UK we were also working part time.

LongIslander · Yesterday 13:46
Moving abroad solely to pay less tax is a shrivelled and depressing reason to do so. Moving abroad because you want to experience somewhere new, learn a new language, smell a different air -- all good reasons.

Longislander is moving away because of Brexit a good reason?

I live in Spain and will not be moving back to London. Income Tax here is actually a bit higher but CoL, local taxes etc are lower. Behaviour, community etc much better though I do miss some of the cultural offerings.

Grand Caiman was tiny and very insular and extremely expensive when I was there in the early 90s. Will be inundated with cruise ship passengers every day. Great for scuba though.

Spain. Both myself and my husband are going through serious illnesses currently. I'm so glad we are not in the UK. In fact, I doubt my dh would be alive now if the ambulance hadn't been only 10 mins and the incredibly rapid treatment
Our bins are emptied twice a day. The roads are repaired quickly and well. The beach is cleaned every morning. The pavements are washed every night.
We have free train travel

Cayman is beautiful, tiny, very very expensive and there is nothing to do. You can't pop to the theatre, a museum.

I craved hills, views, cloudy days and culture, so I didn't stay there long.

The huge amount of very rich americans on holiday there to buy diamonds is a bit nauseating.

The thing that depresses me is that expats come back and use the NHS when it suits despite moving to avoid the cost of funding it. They ought to implement some limitations on that.

Do not regret a thing. Moved to Cyprus 4 years ago. Got full residency before Brexit took effect. Brilliant, virtually free (€1 per prescription, €6 for consultant appt, surgery free and virtually no waiting) healthcare, 5% tax rate, no IHT, cheap council tax (10% of what I paid in UK) & water. Electricity is expensive but government gives us around €600 each year for winter heating.

Edit: Forgot to mention, wall to wall sunshine, beaches, beautiful scenery, lovely food……

If anything I have “survivor guilt” when I hear what my family are putting up with in UK.