Friend moving to USA with US citizen DH and US citizen baby on ESTA

[esta2024]

Asking all british spouses of US citizens.

My friend has decided to go to the USA with her American husband and baby on an ESTA (they were living abroad for years, baby born abroad), live with family while remote working for her current employer (not a US employer and money paid to overseas bank account), and on day 91 apply to adjust her status to a green card.

based on what i have read online, it is likely to succeed despite the fact that she would be overstaying on esta but it seems to have succeeded for many people as they are married to american citizens and in bona fide relationships and its difficult to establish intent to immigrate from the onset (as people say they are just visiting and then 'changed' their minds).

is this true, I can't quite get my head around this. Why doesn't everyone just do this and they wait 1-1.5 years for consular processing? I understand that by doing it this way, you give up all rights to appeal and if it goes wrong, you would be deported and banned from the USA.

He doesn't have employment there but his mum would be joint sponsor. They worked abroad for years and in my SIL's mind she thought they would stay in that country. He had different ideas, i suspect. He told me basically he only went to that country for better dating options.

They are now leaving that country cos they realized in their 30s they are behind their siblings in uk/usa in terms of financial stability so they want to catch up and also live with family to save money for their future.

She needs advice from her own immigration lawyer.

If she gets found out, as pp say, she's looking at being deported without her child and NO WAY TO VISIT THE CHILD FOR 10 YEARS OR MORE

She can - but she'll have to prove it, including what arrangements and attempts she made, documentation, etc.

Lying complicates everything and USCIS is well-versed in all of it. They're happy to slap a 10-year bar for deception and they won't lose any sleep over it, either. A case like this is, to them, an easy target - the story unravels the minute any kind of scrutiny is applied.

The time, effort, and expense of lying and attempting to cover up the lies is better spent on just doing the process, tedious though it may be.

Yes, but you, sorry, SHE should speak to an immigration lawyer. Ignorance will be no defense when it all goes tits up.

What are the chances of being found out.

When i was applying for my own visas in uk there were lots of Facebook posts on visa rejections (including on quite spurious grounds, esp cos my visa was under European law pre brexit) and so i learnt from that how to be careful. At that time i had to prove i shifted my centre of life to europe (where dh was doing his masters and working) before returning to the uk and wasn't trying to circumvent immigration law. Easy to do as i did live in europe and my dh's decision to do his degree in europe preceded me meeting him. Plenty of people didn't have such luck and moved to Europe cos they couldn't meet the spouse visa requirements but as far as i know their spouses are british citizens now. This is cos eu law was very liberal about freedom of movement.

There isn't as much literature online for the usa .

100%. And there's just as much information online for US immigration as there is for the UK, if you know where to look.

What's not 100% is whether or not they get lenient people reviewing the case. Sometimes, they have empathy. But entry with deception, working illegally, and then lying about it will probably outweigh any personal discretion USCIS is allowed to exercise.

I hope it doesn't end badly for them.

Thats if they find out she is working illegally. She has been with her current employer for years maybe he would lie for her?

There's no "if."

She is required to disclose her employment. It will be verified. Her employer will say "yes, she's working."

That is a certainty.

USCIS also requires the spouse to be the primary financial sponsor, which means he will have to provide his US tax returns. Her income will be included on those, and the details of her employment.

This is insane and definitely not worth the risk. My kids are US citizens but I am not. Every lawyer I've spoken to has told me not under any circumstances to take my DC to the US before they are 18, as their 'D'F could petition to prevent them from leaving and the US will never allow a US citizen minor to leave the country against the wishes of a US parent.

Basically, if she does get caught and her DH doesn't want to relocate outside the US, she loses access to her DC. Not worth the risk.

Are you mad? This is a very serious criminal offence. She will be found out. She will be deported. She won’t be able to see her child again until it’s too old to remember her. Hopefully she will go to jail.

Well it makes sense that you say he’s not visited the USA in years. He has probably forgotten the fact that when you arrive there is a line for non US citizens or Aliens as they like to call us. His wife will have to go in that line. Then when they ask who she is with etc, do you seriously think they’d let her in on an ESTA? 🤣 it would be beyond obvious she was trying to live there. With an American spouse and baby and presumably no return flights or holiday plans.

He visits the usa semi regularly. Though not with a baby. Think when he last visited it was with his pregnant wife but they were genuinely visiting and spending time with family.

They got married in the usa too (civil ceremony) but left to go back to the country they were always living in (and met).

I wouldn't be surprised if she had a return flight.

tbh years and years ago, i came on a tourist visa to marry Dh in the european country he was living in. I had a return flight which i never used. it took 4 months to do all the paper work and i was allowed 3 months in schengen so i also spent 1 month in the UK (visiting dh's family). I am a visa free national.

I got married on a Saturday and on Monday, i got my visa to live in that european country as spouse of a British national exercising free movement. went to the immigration authority, queued up for hours and was issued my 5 year residence card on the spot.

and a year later i moved to the uk as dh had finished his studies and internships. did family permit, then residence card, then converted this to pre-settled status, then got settled status last year. this works in Europe pre brexit, however national law is very different.

what can i do as a close friend. should i pay for legal advice from an immigration attorney for her? I would be happy to do that

That would be pointless, as you mentioned earlier the bad advice they've been given already supposedly comes from an immigration attorney. A second attorney telling them otherwise isn't going to change their minds.

All you can do, as a friend, is let them make their choice and help out where you can if things go wrong.

what if the dh is making it up. what kind of immigration attorney gives this kind of ridiculous advice anyway?

I can tell you that someone coming to the Uk with a spouse is not able to do what you did OP.
It is very difficult now to bring a spouse into the UK. From EU or outside.
And almost impossible (unless they used a fiancee visa) to do it in country.

I would show her this thread.
I would pay for her to have her own advice from lawyer.

The risk of being separated from her baby is huge

You ask what are the chances of being found out .... it could be 100% if the relationship turns sour and the husband reports her! Even if she's got all the right visas by then, if her husband reports the initial deception then she'll be deported and he will retain the child if he wants to.

No way I could live with my DH having that power over me. It would essentially make her totally beholden to him and unable to ever annoy him or leave him. No thanks!

Oh MY GOD. her DH is weird anyway. We were abroad last year staying at same hotel and her dh, her, her MIL and the baby were all sharing one hotel room!

my DH was saying that the dynamic was weird, like he was scared she would leave him, and thus inserting his mum into the dynamic so that my friend would feel 'intimidated'. maybe my dh is right

British spouse of US citizen here. I really wouldn't take my chances with US immigration.

yes cos we have left the EU.

It wasn't easy in my time either. Many people got rejected doing the visa that I did and spent ages overturning appeals. i was lucky cos DH already had planned to study in Europe prior to meeting me and had to work as part of his degree.

And before i moved back to the UK, i applied for a family permit while living in Europe and got it. Which gave me the right to work though it expired after 6 months so i had to apply for a residence card in country for my 5 year visa. This took months though UKVI did allow me to work while waiting for the visa and i lived with family.

the problem is that the DH's mum immigrated to the usa in 1981 in a similar way. Her DH at that time was moving back to study and took her with him (they had no income and so were sponsored by the parents). so he is convinced it can be done. the difference is that it was in 1981, the mum was childless at that time and the mum at that time was definitely not working!

Lots of issues here. What will she say at immigration on arrival, when they ask her how long she’s staying?

how will she get health insurance?

taxes- will husband list her as a dependent on his taxes? That could be fraud if she is working.

agree it’s a bad idea.

This. It will be very easy for the husband to prevent her from ever seeing her child again.

I work at Heathrow and have seen many people refused by homeland for abusing ESTAs and one woman eventually banned from enter for her continual misuse of ESTA for visiting her wife- literally the homeland guy made a call and she wouldn’t be allowed back into the states!!